Race and Racism in The United States

[Seperates]

I'm not defending racism, as it isn't a good thing to do. One should not simply hate another person's race, as it is merely a few genes that really don't dictate much, but racism will never end, it will always be an existent idea that cannot be simply ended. It has always been around, and regardless of what education programs you put in place, regardless of what legislation you instill upon law, we will always have racists. It is a sad, hard truth that we must accept.

I'd say you could be largely right, if we could not erase our culture's notions of "individuality" and "merit" that are just codewords for the ideologies with highest power of expansion according to a given privileged version of truth, and power hierarchies themselves that tag people according to lived experiences that are inherently unique and equally human and valuable, and privilege to learn to use them and have wisdom and factoids in their construction of professional and public identity through that.

The point where racism ends is where there aren't richer or poorer because there aren't classes, where no one feels more sense of connection to a given approximate boundary of "immediate humanity" that is fully ideologically and socioculturally built because all those were erased, and where people can't be measured in accounts to that because no one owns property or signs of unlimited success before others because everything is common belonging to others.

So basically never?

[Edgy Opinions]

Capitalism? Whot.

Capitalism can exist in any society, regardless of its racial status.

Orientialism and Lebensraum aren't necessarily racist. One can be an orientalist and a support of Lebensraum without being a racist.

Why capitalism has to vanish for racism to vanish, I explain just above.

And we're really trusting a white American pro-confederate anarcho-capitalist to tell us that.

Orientalism is an inherently Western-supremacist institution (a virtual race through culture, nevertheless, that is owned/chiefed by largely white nations and societies for the interests, that might conflict with those of other social constructs that are negatively affected by the widespread privilege surrounding their existence as a concept), and the Lebensraum I talked about is inherently that against Indigenous peoples.

[Edgy Opinions]

I'd say you could be largely right, if we could not erase our culture's notions of "individuality" and "merit" that are just codewords for the ideologies with highest power of expansion according to a given privileged version of truth, and power hierarchies themselves that tag people according to lived experiences that are inherently unique and equally human and valuable, and privilege to learn to use them and have wisdom and factoids in their construction of professional and public identity through that.

The point where racism ends is where there aren't richer or poorer because there aren't classes, where no one feels more sense of connection to a given approximate boundary of "immediate humanity" that is fully ideologically and socioculturally built because all those were erased, and where people can't be measured in accounts to that because no one owns property or signs of unlimited success before others because everything is common belonging to others.

So basically never?

If people abandon class struggle because they decide to be cute and play games? Yes.

[Seperates]

So basically never?

If people abandon class struggle because they decide to be cute and play games? Yes.

Blessed are the utopian builders for they are the purest of heart.

[Republic of Coldwater]

So basically never?

If people abandon class struggle because they decide to be cute and play games? Yes.

Being an individual and supporting merit aren't necessarily the reasons for racism. Racism really happens when one has negative experiences that would warrant hatred, and you can't stop that from happening, as you will always have people who have negative experiences with a person of another race, or be shocked by their culture and/or their actions that it creates hatred.

[Edgy Opinions]

If people abandon class struggle because they decide to be cute and play games? Yes.

Being an individual and supporting merit aren't necessarily the reasons for racism. Racism really happens when one has negative experiences that would warrant hatred, and you can't stop that from happening, as you will always have people who have negative experiences with a person of another race, or be shocked by their culture and/or their actions that it creates hatred.

Racism is not the hatred. Racism is the essentialism, and the power tied to it. The rest is just justification or psychological deepening of such relationship.

The power is justified by individuality, merit, self-ownership, whatever new bullshit created to further jail people inside this. No form of this system will ever be moral, and the most immoral forms will be the ones where we don't weed the current elites, their ideology, their institutions and their philosophy by the root.

The essentialism is a reason to affirm oneself as more worthy of consideration and power than others already fucked by it, and to further divide the people into "nations" that battle between themselves rather than the ones who perpetuate the structures.

[Apparatchikstan]

Race will always be an issue in the US as long as it is politically profitable.
When your culture has become an unassimilated multicultural community of isolated hyphenated Americans, you are guaranteed a never ending cycle of racial issue that can be taken advantage of by political misanthropes the tv refuses to lay blame on. Any institution of racism is here, amongst media darlings who excel at identity politics, and practice the primary Napoleonic tactic of divide and conquer. And no, it's not Republicans.

Yes, there are racists in the US. Of every color, gender, class, and creed. To say any one is more guilty than another, or another's prejudice is excused because of history is at best foolish. Unfortunately ignorance is an everpresent trait of humanity, but it is correctable as long as one is intellectually honest about the situation.

[Olthar]

I'm a part of numerous minority groups, some of white are quite reviled by the public at large. I know what it's like to be oppressed. However, I am so white that I sparkle in the sun and am invisible against the wall if I strip naked. So, I don't know if I can really comment on or understand the conditions of racial minorities.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Capitalism? Whot.

Capitalism can exist in any society, regardless of its racial status.

Orientialism and Lebensraum aren't necessarily racist. One can be an orientalist and a support of Lebensraum without being a racist.

Why capitalism has to vanish for racism to vanish, I explain just above.

And we're really trusting a white American pro-confederate anarcho-capitalist to tell us that.

Orientalism is an inherently Western-supremacist institution (a virtual race through culture, nevertheless, that is owned/chiefed by largely white nations and societies for the interests, that might conflict with those of other social constructs that are negatively affected by the widespread privilege surrounding their existence as a concept), and the Lebensraum I talked about is inherently that against Indigenous peoples.

Orientalism is a way of western interpretation of eastern culture. Sure, it may not be 100% accurate, but it doesn't mean that they hated people from the east. I am no Orientalist, but it is not inherently racist

Lebensraum isn't right, but it isn't inherently racist. You can invade the land of your own race to expand the land of your country's people, which isn't necessarily racism, but is often tied to racism.

These two things, although tied to racism are not inherently inclusive of racism. Just because they have been tied to racism doesn't mean that they are inherently racist.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Being an individual and supporting merit aren't necessarily the reasons for racism. Racism really happens when one has negative experiences that would warrant hatred, and you can't stop that from happening, as you will always have people who have negative experiences with a person of another race, or be shocked by their culture and/or their actions that it creates hatred.

Racism is not the hatred. Racism is the essentialism, and the power tied to it. The rest is just justification or psychological deepening of such relationship.

The power is justified by individuality, merit, self-ownership, whatever new bullshit created to further jail people inside this. No form of this system will ever be moral, and the most immoral forms will be the ones where we don't weed the current elites, their ideology, their institutions and their philosophy by the root.

The essentialism is a reason to affirm oneself as more worthy of consideration and power than others already fucked by it, and to further divide the people into "nations" that battle between themselves rather than the ones who perpetuate the structures.

Wow. Lets do these one by one

Individuality: That basically means that you view people as themselves, and not in collective groups, which is an anthesis of racism, which requires generalization and disregard of individuality for you to hate an entire group, regardless of the individuals and exceptions in the group.

Merit: If you believe that one should get a job, or get into a university, or get anything on the basis of merit and not anything else, you don't necessarily have to be a racist. In fact, if you are a racist, it is unlikely for you to be supportive of merit as you might want to give a certain racial group treatment on the basis of their genes, and not what they have and have not accomplished.

Self-Ownership: I don't understand how this is related to racism at all. I can see no relation whatsoever, so please explain.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Being an individual and supporting merit aren't necessarily the reasons for racism. Racism really happens when one has negative experiences that would warrant hatred, and you can't stop that from happening, as you will always have people who have negative experiences with a person of another race, or be shocked by their culture and/or their actions that it creates hatred.

Racism is not the hatred. Racism is the essentialism, and the power tied to it. The rest is just justification or psychological deepening of such relationship.

The power is justified by individuality, merit, self-ownership, whatever new bullshit created to further jail people inside this. No form of this system will ever be moral, and the most immoral forms will be the ones where we don't weed the current elites, their ideology, their institutions and their philosophy by the root.

The essentialism is a reason to affirm oneself as more worthy of consideration and power than others already fucked by it, and to further divide the people into "nations" that battle between themselves rather than the ones who perpetuate the structures.

Getting into an argument with cold water and thinking you'll make some sort of breakthrough is like trying to put all the air on earth in a single jar without suffocating anyone. He's not going to listen, and your argument will continue forever. Sometimes I think you might want to let those without sense talk. He thinks the world would be better off if the south won the American civil war, and I think anyone viewing this forum has enough sense to see that it wouldn't, and will then take the rest of what he says a bit less seriously.

[The Cobalt Sky]

I'm not defending racism, as it isn't a good thing to do. One should not simply hate another person's race, as it is merely a few genes that really don't dictate much, but racism will never end, it will always be an existent idea that cannot be simply ended. It has always been around, and regardless of what education programs you put in place, regardless of what legislation you instill upon law, we will always have racists. It is a sad, hard truth that we must accept.

That's a pretty big 180 from right here:

Hmm, personally, I haven't seen much, but correct me if I'm wrong, racism is dying fast. We see WASPs, the same who would vote in George Wallace and Strom Thurmond vote in Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal, we see less and less acceptance of racism, as more start to decide against such things. Compared to Europe, the growth of the racist groups like the KKK have been minimal. Sure, it is now what, 3000 strong, but compared to Golden Dawn or Jobbik, its nothing.

I think you're the last person who should be preaching about racism, since you'd jump at the chance to keep black people in chains, just to see your own little fantasy come to pass.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Racism is not the hatred. Racism is the essentialism, and the power tied to it. The rest is just justification or psychological deepening of such relationship.

The power is justified by individuality, merit, self-ownership, whatever new bullshit created to further jail people inside this. No form of this system will ever be moral, and the most immoral forms will be the ones where we don't weed the current elites, their ideology, their institutions and their philosophy by the root.

The essentialism is a reason to affirm oneself as more worthy of consideration and power than others already fucked by it, and to further divide the people into "nations" that battle between themselves rather than the ones who perpetuate the structures.

Getting into an argument with cold water and thinking you'll make some sort of breakthrough is like trying to put all the air on earth in a single jar without suffocating anyone. He's not going to listen, and your argument will continue forever. Sometimes I think you might want to let those without sense talk. He thinks the world would be better off if the south won the American civil war, and I think anyone viewing this forum has enough sense to see that it wouldn't, and will then take the rest of what he says a bit less seriously.

Haha well that was nice

Sorry if I insulted or offended you, but basing your disagreement with another person on one thing and then generalizing them because of that one thing is what racists do: They base a race off one thing and generalize them as justification for hate (Not saying you are a racist, because you probably aren't one)

[Republic of Coldwater]

I'm not defending racism, as it isn't a good thing to do. One should not simply hate another person's race, as it is merely a few genes that really don't dictate much, but racism will never end, it will always be an existent idea that cannot be simply ended. It has always been around, and regardless of what education programs you put in place, regardless of what legislation you instill upon law, we will always have racists. It is a sad, hard truth that we must accept.

That's a pretty big 180 from right here:

Hmm, personally, I haven't seen much, but correct me if I'm wrong, racism is dying fast. We see WASPs, the same who would vote in George Wallace and Strom Thurmond vote in Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal, we see less and less acceptance of racism, as more start to decide against such things. Compared to Europe, the growth of the racist groups like the KKK have been minimal. Sure, it is now what, 3000 strong, but compared to Golden Dawn or Jobbik, its nothing.

I think you're the last person who should be preaching about racism, since you'd jump at the chance to keep black people in chains, just to see your own little fantasy come to pass.

Yep, I have changed a bit on the race issue. Although I don't like racism, I realize that it will never die, but at the same time, I realize that it would become more covert and less overt as time moves on and as less people are racist.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Getting into an argument with cold water and thinking you'll make some sort of breakthrough is like trying to put all the air on earth in a single jar without suffocating anyone. He's not going to listen, and your argument will continue forever. Sometimes I think you might want to let those without sense talk. He thinks the world would be better off if the south won the American civil war, and I think anyone viewing this forum has enough sense to see that it wouldn't, and will then take the rest of what he says a bit less seriously.

Haha well that was nice

Sorry if I insulted or offended you, but basing your disagreement with another person on one thing and then generalizing them because of that one thing is what racists do: They base a race off one thing and generalize them as justification for hate (Not saying you are a racist, because you probably aren't one)

Not that much of one, seeing as the Civil War was about slavery, which you continually deny. If someone's in that much denial about a very important topic, you should probably rethink blindly accepting whatever else they have to say.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Haha well that was nice

Sorry if I insulted or offended you, but basing your disagreement with another person on one thing and then generalizing them because of that one thing is what racists do: They base a race off one thing and generalize them as justification for hate (Not saying you are a racist, because you probably aren't one)

Not that much of one, seeing as the Civil War was about slavery, which you continually deny. If someone's in that much denial about a very important topic, you should probably rethink accepting whatever else they have to say.

So blacks are disproportionately represented in crime and prison rates, so should I not accept them and hate them? Nope.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Not that much of one, seeing as the Civil War was about slavery, which you continually deny. If someone's in that much denial about a very important topic, you should probably rethink accepting whatever else they have to say.

So blacks are disproportionately represented in crime and prison rates, so should I not accept them and hate them? Nope.

How is that a response to what I just said? I never said we should be discriminated against. In fact, the whole point of this topic is to prove that we are, and to make it stop.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Racism won't truly become a thing of the past until many people first discard the childish notion that you can't hold beliefs that are ground in racism without being an evil KKK white supremacist.

..and not until people recognize the fact that racism is bad in all circumstances...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Mind if I ask if you could give some examples as to the sort of damage that race-based diagnosing and epidemiological studies have done in the medical field? Just curious.

Mental illness is the biggest one I've come across. This source does a good job explaining the dangers of race-based diagnosing. It's especially troubling here in the United States because of the "one drop rule," something the source also mentions, where the majority of your family can be mostly "white", but if you look "black" enough, you'll get treated and diagnosed a certain way.

I've just finished reading the articles.

I agree, that there are certain things like racial profiling for instance that are not beneficial for the medical field. However, if one population's propensity to a certain genetic disease is high then it makes sense to try and figure out why this is and how to prevent such disease from springing on said population. In this sense categories of groups are important.

What isn't relevant however is treating one patient different than another just because of race, as it'd make more sense to diagnose based on his overall background rather than just his racial background. In other words, while peripherally it somewhat makes sense to take their racial background into consideration, it should not be the main consideration in a clinical interview.

[Mavorpen]

Mental illness is the biggest one I've come across. This source does a good job explaining the dangers of race-based diagnosing. It's especially troubling here in the United States because of the "one drop rule," something the source also mentions, where the majority of your family can be mostly "white", but if you look "black" enough, you'll get treated and diagnosed a certain way.

I've just finished reading the articles.

I agree, that there are certain things like racial profiling for instance that are not beneficial for the medical field. However, if one population's propensity to a certain genetic disease is high then it makes sense to try and figure out why this is and how to prevent such disease from springing on said population. In this sense categories of groups are important.

What isn't relevant however is treating one patient different than another just because of race, as it'd make more sense to diagnose based on his overall background rather than just his racial background. In other words, while peripherally it somewhat makes sense to take their racial background into consideration, it should not be the main consideration in a clinical interview.

I don't disagree with this which is why I said I disagreed with your previous post to an extent. My point is that we need to be very careful when studying "race" in the medical field, especially with mental illness.

[Edgy Opinions]

Wow. Lets do these one by one

No. Let's not.

I'm not ~against~ these concepts. I said these concepts, in our society, social constructs that they are, are used to justify capitalist exploitation, and thus perpetuate class power. Whatever you say to justify capitalism, is inherently in the name of an ideology that our society is structured to support, because everything about our system is enabled through said class power. There might be numerous other possible kinds of society and possible other ideologies, still, you will attempt to justify that specific kind of society, doesn't matter its failures, because you were conditioned to naturalize it as everything humanity should aspire to as our given destiny.

Without perpetuation of class power, it becomes really hard to perpetuate privilege as a social institution, which is what leads to essentialism, such as thoughts about the "nature" of your Other and its natural relationship before your group. Thus the race, gender, gender alignment, sex spectrum, ability and other superstructures fade away with it.

Orientalism is a way of western interpretation of eastern culture. Sure, it may not be 100% accurate, but it doesn't mean that they hated people from the east. I am no Orientalist, but it is not inherently racist.

See, there isn't one Eastern culture. Orientalism is Western exceptionalism. It was used to justify colonialism under a guise of paternalism. It is not a project of equality, it is a project of power before a racial Other. Stop your denial, nobody's here to swallow it.

[Pope Joan]

A friend, a wise person with doctoral degrees and a responsible position, had to move from Saratoga Springs. Why? His skin is dark black, and in every store he entered, every one, he was tailed by security.

That's racism.

It would not happen to anyone with white skin.

[The Emerald Dawn]

A friend, a wise person with doctoral degrees and a responsible position, had to move from Saratoga Springs. Why? His skin is dark black, and in every store he entered, every one, he was tailed by security.

That's racism.

It would not happen to anyone with white skin.

Actually, I have been to places in the US where I wasn't white enough.

Swear to God. Me of the Irish birth, of Whiter-than-White Anglo-Irish parents.

I was not "White Enough".

[Yumyumsuppertime]

A friend, a wise person with doctoral degrees and a responsible position, had to move from Saratoga Springs. Why? His skin is dark black, and in every store he entered, every one, he was tailed by security.

That's racism.

It would not happen to anyone with white skin.

Actually, I have been to places in the US where I wasn't white enough.

Swear to God. Me of the Irish birth, of Whiter-than-White Anglo-Irish parents.

I was not "White Enough".

Interestingly enough, according to some turn of the century "thought", you're not white.

A whole new meaning to the term "Black Irish".

[The Emerald Dawn]

Actually, I have been to places in the US where I wasn't white enough.

Swear to God. Me of the Irish birth, of Whiter-than-White Anglo-Irish parents.

I was not "White Enough".

Interestingly enough, according to some turn of the century "thought", you're not white.

A whole new meaning to the term "Black Irish".

Freaking Spanish.

Yeah, that too. But I was more going for the whole concept of xenophobia within certain conclaves.