Autism Spectrum Megathread

[Traceynia]

Hello nsg autism community.

I myself do not have any form of autism but I work very closely with the autism community. I work in a group home for autistic people with severe intellectual impairment and I am also working on a masters degree in developmental disability with the intention of entering the field of applied behavior analysis.

I am curious if any of you guys have received or are receiving behavioral analysis services. When you were young did any of you receive early intervention services ?

Protip: lots of autistic people hate ABA treatment. As an autistic person myself, any sort of negative reinforcement or shaming for my behavior absolutely destroys me and is often a major cause for me becoming panicked in the first place. ABA and other behaviorist techniques are based around ignoring the internal state of the patient in favor of a focus on eliminating behaviors viewed as problematic. The attitude is not "how can we make the world a more comfortable place for people like this", it's "he's flapping his hands, that's unsightly, it must be removed". The problem with this mentality should be obvious. ABA proponents also promote the spurious notion that not only should autism be cured, but that there are people today who are now "formerly autistic" in a disturbing parallel to "ex-gay" therapy. At its worst, the ideology of ABA leads to institutions such as the Judge Rotenberg Center, which has been investigated by the United Nations special reporter on torture due to its use of electrocution as a punishment for misbehavior.

Autistic people have and deserve agency - all autistic people, including those who are nonverbal or intellectually disabled. If you truly care about the well-being of autistic people I urge you to use your degree to help advocate for greater accommodation for and understanding of autistic people rather than working in a field of therapy decried by many autistics and their allies as inhumane. Read and research the perspectives of autistic people themselves and not just those of neurotypical psychologists, caretakers and family members.

So if I am understanding you correctly, you have received ABA services and found them to be harmful? If you don't mind talking about it could you share some of your experiences with ABA?

If that is the case then I am sorry you have had such a negative experience with ABA. The BCBAs (Board Certified Behavior Analysts) that I work with do emphasize our client's independence and autonomy. We do not use punishment, and instead focus on rewarding them when they act appropriately (so for example receiving attention or access to something by asking for it instead of hitting someone or hitting themselves). We try and support them as much as we can.

I have never heard of people claiming to be cured of autism. I have heard some people claim that ABA can "cure" autism, but from what I understand that view is not accepted by the ABA community at large.

[Traceynia]

Hello nsg autism community.

I myself do not have any form of autism but I work very closely with the autism community. I work in a group home for autistic people with severe intellectual impairment and I am also working on a masters degree in developmental disability with the intention of entering the field of applied behavior analysis.

I am curious if any of you guys have received or are receiving behavioral analysis services. When you were young did any of you receive early intervention services ?

If you did receive any of those services do you think they were beneficial? If you didn't did you wish you did?

I used to go to speech class, not to mention all the school people. Worked horribly, mainly because their solution was basically "He's different, we must destroy those differences and punish him when he does anything out of the ordinary." Honestly they destroyed my ability to trust people. For a while, I actually supported the idea of killing or enslaving all adults and letting children rule.
Now as far as what you should do, I would suggest remembering is not a disease. That may sound obvious, but I think many treat it like it is one. You cannot "heal" autism because the brain is literally wired differently. You can't punish them into being normal; at best you'll ge them to be afraid and act normal in public to avoid punishment. And lastly, for the love of all things good: Do not treat them like they are neurotypicals. They're not, and strategies for dealing with regular people will usually fail utterly with Autistics.
For example: To an average person, parties and large group games are fun and rewarding. Being alone to read a book or play by yourselves while parties are going on is usually a type of punishment. To your average* autistic, parties are terrible and being alone during parties is great. I cannot count how many times my punishment was "be in this room by yourself" and reward was "join this party". That failed.
*When I say average, please realize not all autistics are like this. We are actual people, not strange objects to all about. Being alone during parties may not be liked by autistics, and vice versa.

It sounds like you were a victim of abuse. It sounds like this is something that happened in the past but shame on your school and your state agency for disabled people for not intervening.

[Colonial Rhodesia]

My friend.

I have found my twin.

i have found my two fellow triplets :-)

I am also know for those traits as well for instance in 3rd Grade everyone else was pretty well interested in social status but to me I turned to World book Encyclopedia and it was in this book series that I found my current interest in History, Geography,Culture, etc

[Glorious KASSRD]

i have found my two fellow triplets :-)

I am also know for those traits as well for instance in 3rd Grade everyone else was pretty well interested in social status but to me I turned to World book Encyclopedia and it was in this book series that I found my current interest in History, Geography,Culture, etc

People cared about social status in third Grade? I find that surprising. I agree with you on the second part. It seems these traits are occurring amongst many autistics.

[Glorious KASSRD]

I used to go to speech class, not to mention all the school people. Worked horribly, mainly because their solution was basically "He's different, we must destroy those differences and punish him when he does anything out of the ordinary." Honestly they destroyed my ability to trust people. For a while, I actually supported the idea of killing or enslaving all adults and letting children rule.
Now as far as what you should do, I would suggest remembering is not a disease. That may sound obvious, but I think many treat it like it is one. You cannot "heal" autism because the brain is literally wired differently. You can't punish them into being normal; at best you'll ge them to be afraid and act normal in public to avoid punishment. And lastly, for the love of all things good: Do not treat them like they are neurotypicals. They're not, and strategies for dealing with regular people will usually fail utterly with Autistics.
For example: To an average person, parties and large group games are fun and rewarding. Being alone to read a book or play by yourselves while parties are going on is usually a type of punishment. To your average* autistic, parties are terrible and being alone during parties is great. I cannot count how many times my punishment was "be in this room by yourself" and reward was "join this party". That failed.
*When I say average, please realize not all autistics are like this. We are actual people, not strange objects to all about. Being alone during parties may not be liked by autistics, and vice versa.

It sounds like you were a victim of abuse. It sounds like this is something that happened in the past but shame on your school and your state agency for disabled people for not intervening.

It is hard to do anything, because the whole school was rigged for school logic.
School logic was (at my public schools)
Children should follow the rules, and punished when they don't. Teachers make the rules. Teachers are treating children badly. Therefore that is the rules. Children who resist being treated badly should be punished for breaking the rules.
This is actually the logic used by my former school, as ridiculous as it sounds. And since everyone from the teachers to speech teachers to counselors to assistant principal/principal despised me, they used this logic. Actually, I'm bring a little unfair to the other kids. This is how they were to everyone. I just got it worse, because autistic kids are so very different from the rest.
Luckily, things improved after I left and went to private school, where if teachers are bad you join another class and if kids are bad they're kicked out.

[Meryuma]

Protip: lots of autistic people hate ABA treatment. As an autistic person myself, any sort of negative reinforcement or shaming for my behavior absolutely destroys me and is often a major cause for me becoming panicked in the first place. ABA and other behaviorist techniques are based around ignoring the internal state of the patient in favor of a focus on eliminating behaviors viewed as problematic. The attitude is not "how can we make the world a more comfortable place for people like this", it's "he's flapping his hands, that's unsightly, it must be removed". The problem with this mentality should be obvious. ABA proponents also promote the spurious notion that not only should autism be cured, but that there are people today who are now "formerly autistic" in a disturbing parallel to "ex-gay" therapy. At its worst, the ideology of ABA leads to institutions such as the Judge Rotenberg Center, which has been investigated by the United Nations special reporter on torture due to its use of electrocution as a punishment for misbehavior.

Autistic people have and deserve agency - all autistic people, including those who are nonverbal or intellectually disabled. If you truly care about the well-being of autistic people I urge you to use your degree to help advocate for greater accommodation for and understanding of autistic people rather than working in a field of therapy decried by many autistics and their allies as inhumane. Read and research the perspectives of autistic people themselves and not just those of neurotypical psychologists, caretakers and family members.

So if I am understanding you correctly, you have received ABA services and found them to be harmful? If you don't mind talking about it could you share some of your experiences with ABA?

If that is the case then I am sorry you have had such a negative experience with ABA. The BCBAs (Board Certified Behavior Analysts) that I work with do emphasize our client's independence and autonomy. We do not use punishment, and instead focus on rewarding them when they act appropriately (so for example receiving attention or access to something by asking for it instead of hitting someone or hitting themselves). We try and support them as much as we can.

I have never heard of people claiming to be cured of autism. I have heard some people claim that ABA can "cure" autism, but from what I understand that view is not accepted by the ABA community at large.

As for personal experiences, I don't know if it was part of an ABA program but I was at a private school for autistic and mentally ill people where I was put in a "seclusion room" (basically a solitary cell) for periods of time if I became panicked. I also had a terrible experience outside of a clinical setting with an authority figure who worked with autistic people in a context similar to what you're talking about. I've also heard about a lot of abuses and controversies by groups promoting ABA in the news and in essays/testimonies by autistic people. I'm very glad to hear that your organization doesn't use aversives, as that's one of my main objections to ABA as I usually hear it described. However, I still have a few questions:Does your organization believe that autism is to be cured? Do they try and stop harmless but "awkward"/"socially unacceptable" behaviors such as hand-flapping, rocking back and forth in chairs, etc? Do they seek to understand and address the motivations behind the harmful or "unacceptable" behaviors autistic people sometimes engage in?

[Gradea]

I have High Functioning Autism, I could read and write, but I am socially awkward, I suck at public speaking and some people made fun of me because I know facts of history, geography, and politics, calling me a retard and a "walking encyclopedia". Some people use me as a lab partner for information (this is why I hate working in groups a lot), and not working on anything at all.

You sound like me but I don't have autism, I enjoy public speaking and I'm not really that socially awkward. I hate working in groups however as I usually do all of the work.

[Traceynia]

It sounds like you were a victim of abuse. It sounds like this is something that happened in the past but shame on your school and your state agency for disabled people for not intervening.

It is hard to do anything, because the whole school was rigged for school logic.
School logic was (at my public schools)
Children should follow the rules, and punished when they don't. Teachers make the rules. Teachers are treating children badly. Therefore that is the rules. Children who resist being treated badly should be punished for breaking the rules.
This is actually the logic used by my former school, as ridiculous as it sounds. And since everyone from the teachers to speech teachers to counselors to assistant principal/principal despised me, they used this logic. Actually, I'm bring a little unfair to the other kids. This is how they were to everyone. I just got it worse, because autistic kids are so very different from the rest.
Luckily, things improved after I left and went to private school, where if teachers are bad you join another class and if kids are bad they're kicked out.

You know that's not that surprising. A couple of my classmates are special education teachers and they have described how poorly they feel their schools serve their students.

[Traceynia]

So if I am understanding you correctly, you have received ABA services and found them to be harmful? If you don't mind talking about it could you share some of your experiences with ABA?

If that is the case then I am sorry you have had such a negative experience with ABA. The BCBAs (Board Certified Behavior Analysts) that I work with do emphasize our client's independence and autonomy. We do not use punishment, and instead focus on rewarding them when they act appropriately (so for example receiving attention or access to something by asking for it instead of hitting someone or hitting themselves). We try and support them as much as we can.

I have never heard of people claiming to be cured of autism. I have heard some people claim that ABA can "cure" autism, but from what I understand that view is not accepted by the ABA community at large.

As for personal experiences, I don't know if it was part of an ABA program but I was at a private school for autistic and mentally ill people where I was put in a "seclusion room" (basically a solitary cell) for periods of time if I became panicked. I also had a terrible experience outside of a clinical setting with an authority figure who worked with autistic people in a context similar to what you're talking about. I've also heard about a lot of abuses and controversies by groups promoting ABA in the news and in essays/testimonies by autistic people. I'm very glad to hear that your organization doesn't use aversives, as that's one of my main objections to ABA as I usually hear it described. However, I still have a few questions:Does your organization believe that autism is to be cured? Do they try and stop harmless but "awkward"/"socially unacceptable" behaviors such as hand-flapping, rocking back and forth in chairs, etc? Do they seek to understand and address the motivations behind the harmful or "unacceptable" behaviors autistic people sometimes engage in?

Well unfortunately abuse of kinds is disturbingly common for people with disabilities.

As for your questions, No, we do not try to "cure" autism, and we do not try and extinguish harmless or awkward behavior (and there is evidence that these behaviors serve some sort of sensory function). Functional analysis, that is determining the reason why people do certain behavior, is the cornerstone of ABA. Our primary concern is with the severe maladaptive behaviors our clients have. All of our clients are non-verbal so determining why they engage in maladaptive behaviors is key to helping to extinguish them.

Just so we are clear, maladaptive behavior refers to things like physical aggression, self injurious behavior, property destruction, etc.

Our primary concern is helping to support our clients development and get them to be as independent as they can possibly be.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I am also know for those traits as well for instance in 3rd Grade everyone else was pretty well interested in social status but to me I turned to World book Encyclopedia and it was in this book series that I found my current interest in History, Geography,Culture, etc

People cared about social status in third Grade? I find that surprising. I agree with you on the second part. It seems these traits are occurring amongst many autistics.

When someone's in fifth grade, it's understandable to look at third as a time or turmoil.

Wait til middle and high school, bud. Middle's a shark tank. High school is a bit more mature, but a lot bigger.

[Glorious KASSRD]

People cared about social status in third Grade? I find that surprising. I agree with you on the second part. It seems these traits are occurring amongst many autistics.

When someone's in fifth grade, it's understandable to look at third as a time or turmoil.

Wait til middle and high school, bud. Middle's a shark tank. High school is a bit more mature, but a lot bigger.

I had one year in middle school. Then I decided private school was best.
The horrors of that school......I have to wonder how anyone willingly goes there.

[Liberonscien]

I have Aspergers and ADD. Fun combo.

[Liberonscien]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

Willing to bet that's just a personal interest rather than something to do with your mental issues.

[Glorious KASSRD]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

Obsessions are common amongst everyone. Autistics too. I love politics, which is why I hate the US government. Sometimes it feels like I know more about politics than they do. Hopefully that's just me not understanding the situation.

[Old Tyrannia]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

This is NationStates. If you weren't obsessed with politics, you wouldn't be here.

[Dain II Ironfoot]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

Not sure i fully agree to this, but then i have a mix of Aspergers and PDD-NOS, so it may be different.
My "obsession" would be politics aswell, though i never really experienced it as an obsession. When i'm on vacation for example i do not miss it or anything, but while at home i'll keep track of it pretty much all day.
I do think about things way too much, but this isn't related to anything really. I can think hours about anything that pops up in my mind, wether its the about the purpose of life, something politics related or deciding wether or not i'm gonna get myself something to eat.

[Colonial Rhodesia]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

Rhodesia is my obsession along with my daily wisecracks

[Colonial Rhodesia]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

Not sure i fully agree to this, but then i have a mix of Aspergers and PDD-NOS, so it may be different.
My "obsession" would be politics aswell, though i never really experienced it as an obsession. When i'm on vacation for example i do not miss it or anything, but while at home i'll keep track of it pretty much all day.
I do think about things way too much, but this isn't related to anything really. I can think hours about anything that pops up in my mind, wether its the about the purpose of life, something politics related or deciding wether or not i'm gonna get myself something to eat.

at High School I have manage to come with all these humor related anti Obama ideas for instance say Obama opens a store within a matter of weeks the store will be out of service because in Obama's store everything you can imagine is mostly piles of Shit made in China that falls a part before you even use it

[Benuty]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

This is NationStates. If you weren't obsessed with politics, you wouldn't be here.

I don't think most people on NSG follow politics to the point it completely interferes with entire facets of their lives.

There was a person who dedicated a sizeable portion of their life writing entire Torah scrolls without so much as a single mistake. Most people correct the mistake, and move on yet this one spent entire weeks devoted to just one scroll. If this wasn't more than obsession then I have no idea what is was.

[Glorious KASSRD]

i have found my two fellow triplets :-)

I've found my quadlets!!!

I've found my...quintets?

[Benuty]

I've read that those with Aspergers can sometimes have obsessions or things they think about way too much. Anyone willing to share their obsession, if they have one?
Mine currently seems to be politics.

Rhodesia is my obsession along with my daily wisecracks

What kind of wisecracks?

[Glorious KASSRD]

Rhodesia is my obsession along with my daily wisecracks

What kind of wisecracks?

Good wisecracks.

[Glorious KASSRD]

I've found my...quintets?

Idea!
We need to make our own NS social group with each other!
Sound good?

Isn't that basically this thread? I don't know much about what a social group is, or how it make one.

[Naushantiya]

The thing about Autism is that it does not exist, I am sorry guys, there is nothing wrong with you. All you need to do is put in a little handwork. I wish you all good luck, little bit of hardwork and some social skills that you can develop, don't cling on to a condition guys. I am hopeful you shall succeed