Evolution (and abiongenesis, Cosmology, etc) vs ID, again

[Godular]

It doesn't. Combinations of 4 letters in the base pairs will be much less complex than combinations of 36+ characters that could exist in the Library of Congress (letters, numbers, symbols, etc.)

Small combinations are powerful. What you typed? Stored in zeros and ones.

Sniff... people just whiffed right past mine...

[Benuty]

How is this even a debate actually?

It is all due to the power of memetic necromancy.

You can thank Richard Dawkins, and their fleet led by the flagship "S.S Strawman" getting into combat with other factions over useless trinkets.

[Geilinor]

Or anything ever written in the English language. Just 26 letters.

[Benuty]

How is this even a debate actually?

Because in the US many people believe in ID, for whatever reason.

Apparently they've confused theological accommodation to an evolving field of knowledge as something else entirely.

[Othelos]

When stranded together to create for than single celled organisms, DNA is so complex, that a single pinhead contains the Libary of Congress.

Where is your source?

EDIT: For DNA existing, I mean.

I'm really hoping that you're joking.

[Benuty]

Where is your source?

EDIT: For DNA existing, I mean.

I'm really hoping that you're joking.

They obviously believe the Human Genome Project was a hoax.

Unless it is really blatant satire.

[Securitan]

Where is your source?

EDIT: For DNA existing, I mean.

I'm really hoping that you're joking.

Beelzebub has poisoned the well that is your mind in order to lead you to hell!

[Benuty]

I'm really hoping that you're joking.

Beelzebub has poisoned the well that is your mind in order to lead you to hell!

Say hi to Edgar Allen Poe for me will you?

[Democratic Monarchy of Somosland]

As an ignostic indeterminist that is pragmatic about reality perspectives, what I have to say on evolution and god is the following:
Evolution is a scientific theory. Theory.

Theory.

We're not forcing anyone to believe it, or beating people up, burning them at the stake, forcing them to confess, forcing them to have their kid in prison, forcing them to get sent to prison for being raped because they had sex out of wedlock, sending them to prison for driving, for speaking out of turn, for wanting equal pay, for having sex with someone of the same sexual anatomy, for trying to get a job, for wanting to be free, for fighting an oppressive thousands year old system, or make misogyny holy and sacred, declare crusades on fellow believers (there are more crusades against Christians than against Muslims), declare all other religions or lack their of sacrilegious and damnable for not being our religion or lack there of, or any such thing.

However, as a theory, that means it has yet to be disproven using empirical evidence and testing, that is to say, the scientific method. So, it's not proven anymore than God, be it the fundamentalist patriarchic God, the Greek Gods, or the Spaghetti Monster.
However, THAT DOES NOT EXCLUDE GOD ALTOGETHER, as several religious folk here have pointed out.
That God caused evolution or created a universe that would do so and then didn't interfere with anything is a particular interpretation called deism.
I cannot rudy well prove or disprove that nor find any evidence for or against it like other theories, such as that Eve came out of Adam's rib (which isn't even the original version of the story, which the Jews nabbed from Babylon, not to mention that many versions say that Eve was Adam's third wife, and the first, Lilith, created of red clay like Adam, refused to submit to Adam as God asked and so was kicked out of Eden, which would at least half-explain why people were there when Adam and Eve leave, and the second one wouldn't say or do anything, so God created Eve. And the Exodus story of Moses is a complete cop-off of the story of Osiris' rebirth from Egyptian mythology, and the Exodus is the oldest part of the Genesis, which also borrows the Noah's Ark story from the Babylonians and Sumerians, and coincidentally the Greeks have slightly similar tale), so deism is a possibility, and I have consigned myself to the fact that I can't ever really know what my reality is from at least a metaphysical standpoint, and even if God were to come down and talk to me, I would never know if I was speaking to Her (there's another thing, God is never addressed by Her or They or It except by reform/feminist interpretations) or not. I don't personally have a problem with religion if that means that religion supports universal suffrage, feminism, and the scientific method.

[Murkwood]

Intelligent design and evolution are not mutually exclusive.

[Cannot think of a name]

I accept the scientific fact that evolution occurs and understand that the theory of evolution via natural selection offers the best explanation of how this phenomenon occurs in nature.

"Fact". At least give me some proof of your theory, and recognize the difference between Natural selection and evolution.

Okay, I know everyone else is actually arguing the science with you because who doesn't like an easy win, but I just want to make sure of something here...


...you don't think that if you find some flaw or unknown in the Theory of Evolution that it defaults to magic, do you? Like, you have to actually support your opposing explanation, not just attack the accepted one. You know this, yes?

[Securitan]

Beelzebub has poisoned the well that is your mind in order to lead you to hell!

Say high to Edgar Allen Poe for me will you?

Say high?

Being "high" is a state which can only be attained through use of Satanic material! You are obviously trying to lead me off the righteous path.

[Securitan]

As an ignostic indeterminist that is pragmatic about reality perspectives, what I have to say on evolution and god is the following:
Evolution is a scientific theory. Theory.

Theory.

We're not forcing anyone to believe it, or beating people up, burning them at the stake, forcing them to confess, forcing them to have their kid in prison, forcing them to get sent to prison for being raped because they had sex out of wedlock, sending them to prison for driving, for speaking out of turn, for wanting equal pay, for having sex with someone of the same sexual anatomy, for trying to get a job, for wanting to be free, for fighting an oppressive thousands year old system, or make misogyny holy and sacred, declare crusades on fellow believers (there are more crusades against Christians than against Muslims), declare all other religions or lack their of sacrilegious and damnable for not being our religion or lack there of, or any such thing.

However, as a theory, that means it has yet to be disproven using empirical evidence and testing, that is to say, the scientific method. So, it's not proven anymore than God, be it the fundamentalist patriarchic God, the Greek Gods, or the Spaghetti Monster.
However, THAT DOES NOT EXCLUDE GOD ALTOGETHER, as several religious folk here have pointed out.
That God caused evolution or created a universe that would do so and then didn't interfere with anything is a particular interpretation called deism.
I cannot rudy well prove or disprove that nor find any evidence for or against it like other theories, such as that Eve came out of Adam's rib (which isn't even the original version of the story, which the Jews nabbed from Babylon, not to mention that many versions say that Eve was Adam's third wife, and the first, Lilith, created of red clay like Adam, refused to submit to Adam as God asked and so was kicked out of Eden, which would at least half-explain why people were there when Adam and Eve leave, and the second one wouldn't say or do anything, so God created Eve. And the Exodus story of Moses is a complete cop-off of the story of Osiris' rebirth from Egyptian mythology, and the Exodus is the oldest part of the Genesis, which also borrows the Noah's Ark story from the Babylonians and Sumerians, and coincidentally the Greeks have slightly similar tale), so deism is a possibility, and I have consigned myself to the fact that I can't ever really know what my reality is from at least a metaphysical standpoint, and even if God were to come down and talk to me, I would never know if I was speaking to Her (there's another thing, God is never addressed by Her or They or It except by reform/feminist interpretations) or not. I don't personally have a problem with religion if that means that religion supports universal suffrage, feminism, and the scientific method.

You are confusing theory with hypothesis.

[Benuty]

Say high to Edgar Allen Poe for me will you?

Say high?

Being "high" is a state which can only be attained through use of Satanic material! You are obviously trying to lead me off the righteous path.

Target confirmed.

[Cannot think of a name]

Say high to Edgar Allen Poe for me will you?

Say high?

Being "high" is a state which can only be attained through use of Satanic material! You are obviously trying to lead me off the righteous path.

It's the best way to experience Poe.

[Securitan]

Intelligent design and evolution are not mutually exclusive.

Yes they are, unless you make quite a bit of assumptions.

[Godular]

As an ignostic indeterminist that is pragmatic about reality perspectives, what I have to say on evolution and god is the following:
Evolution is a scientific theory. Theory.

Theory.

We're not forcing anyone to believe it, or beating people up, burning them at the stake, forcing them to confess, forcing them to have their kid in prison, forcing them to get sent to prison for being raped because they had sex out of wedlock, sending them to prison for driving, for speaking out of turn, for wanting equal pay, for having sex with someone of the same sexual anatomy, for trying to get a job, for wanting to be free, for fighting an oppressive thousands year old system, or make misogyny holy and sacred, declare crusades on fellow believers (there are more crusades against Christians than against Muslims), declare all other religions or lack their of sacrilegious and damnable for not being our religion or lack there of, or any such thing.

However, as a theory, that means it has yet to be disproven using empirical evidence and testing, that is to say, the scientific method. So, it's not proven anymore than God, be it the fundamentalist patriarchic God, the Greek Gods, or the Spaghetti Monster.
However, THAT DOES NOT EXCLUDE GOD ALTOGETHER, as several religious folk here have pointed out.
That God caused evolution or created a universe that would do so and then didn't interfere with anything is a particular interpretation called deism.
I cannot rudy well prove or disprove that nor find any evidence for or against it like other theories, such as that Eve came out of Adam's rib (which isn't even the original version of the story, which the Jews nabbed from Babylon, not to mention that many versions say that Eve was Adam's third wife, and the first, Lilith, created of red clay like Adam, refused to submit to Adam as God asked and so was kicked out of Eden, which would at least half-explain why people were there when Adam and Eve leave, and the second one wouldn't say or do anything, so God created Eve. And the Exodus story of Moses is a complete cop-off of the story of Osiris' rebirth from Egyptian mythology, and the Exodus is the oldest part of the Genesis, which also borrows the Noah's Ark story from the Babylonians and Sumerians, and coincidentally the Greeks have slightly similar tale), so deism is a possibility, and I have consigned myself to the fact that I can't ever really know what my reality is from at least a metaphysical standpoint, and even if God were to come down and talk to me, I would never know if I was speaking to Her (there's another thing, God is never addressed by Her or They or It except by reform/feminist interpretations) or not. I don't personally have a problem with religion if that means that religion supports universal suffrage, feminism, and the scientific method.

You are confusing theory with hypothesis.

No u. No really.

[Murkwood]

Intelligent design and evolution are not mutually exclusive.

Yes they are, unless you make quite a bit of assumptions.

The Catholic Church disagrees.

[Benuty]

I would like to take a moment to remind people not to post Divair's list of sources concerning evolution. Mainly because most of the links repeat 4 of the sources multiple times over, and frankly that's a rather poor start to give someone.

[Neutraligon]

Yes they are, unless you make quite a bit of assumptions.

The Catholic Church disagrees.

That's nice, provide evidence that there is a creator that initiated or directed evolution.

[Benuty]

I miss Archeuland, these debates will never be as fun without the psychological look into the minds of literalistic minded evangelicals.

[Securitan]

Yes they are, unless you make quite a bit of assumptions.

The Catholic Church disagrees.

To say they are not mutually exclusive you have to make these assumptions:

1. A deity exists.
2. He cares about life forms.
3. He willfully puts flaws in them.
or
4. He doesn't care how they turn out.

To say that they are mutually exclusive you make no assumptions. Via Occams Razor reasoning, them being mutually exclusive is more reasonable.

[Benuty]

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ev ... sdt=0%2C41
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... 1&as_sdtp=


Neutraligon this might be useful for the OP.

[MERIZoC]

I miss Archeuland

I don't.

[Securitan]

I miss Archeuland

I don't.

Off topic argument incoming!

5......4.......3......2......

UPDATE: Crisis averted.