Evolution (and abiongenesis, Cosmology, etc) vs ID, again

[MERIZoC]

But it isn't mind boggling complex. I mean, I literally memorized the structure for an exam.

When stranded together to create for than single celled organisms, DNA is so complex, that a single pinhead contains the Libary of Congress.

The letters ATGC aren't that complicated.

[Ardoki]

I obviously believe in Evolution, as I understand it.

I find it depressing that people in this day and age are treating fiction as fact.

[Killdash]

Show me this evidence.

My personal viewpoint is that no origins theory can be proven correct. It's more a case of looking at the available evidence and interpreting it.

http://people.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

Is just the one I can think of off the top of my head. There are several others that I'm sure one could hunt down given sufficient inclination.

Ironic that two men, in a sophisticated lab, showcasing conditions we don't really know about, are said to have proved accidental design.

Anyway, the proteins that were produced were evenly mixed, as opposed to today, which reveals there is an 80-20% slant. As well the showing that chemicals mainly died in water, couldn't deal with heat, and had a miniuscule chance of combining together in the right sequence. So I'm saying it may have happened, but it's very unlikely, mathematically speaking, it's like getting a 3476 digit code right on the first attempt.

[Zakuvia]

I believe in evolution, but I believe that God caused it to happen.

There is simply too much scientific evidence to deny that evolution exists, and anyone that does so is being willfully ignorant.

This. You can have your cake and eat it, too. Honestly, it makes a LOT of headaches go away in a lot of relatively logical ways. Take the creation of the universe compared to the Big Bang. "Let there be light." Hmm. A lot of things cause light. Candles, Roman Candles are nice; hell, fireworks in general make a lot of light with a bang. Hey! That's not bad. A bang makes loads of light. Anybody who's ever experienced a flashbang in real life or videogames knows precisely what I'm talking about. Okay, so we have a bang. Now let's talk scale. We're talking the creation of the universe here, not some fly-by-night Home Depot job. This is going to be a pretty massive undertaking. But we need to be modest about it, wouldn't want all of creation thinking that its creator's got too big of a head. Nothing Grandeous or Triumphal. What about Big? My house is pretty big. I'm proud of it, but I'm not too show-offy, so I just call it big. Got it. We have our Bang, and it's a fairly Big one. I think we'd probably get too many immature chuckles if we called it the Bang Big, though. Plus it's bad grammar, can't have that. Gents, I'm proud to give voice to the idea that I know what created the known universe.

The Big Bang.

[Securitan]

When stranded together to create for than single celled organisms, DNA is so complex, that a single pinhead contains the Libary of Congress.

The letters ATGC aren't that complicated.

Considering when there are millions in a pinhead though..

[Securitan]

I believe in evolution, but I believe that God caused it to happen.

There is simply too much scientific evidence to deny that evolution exists, and anyone that does so is being willfully ignorant.

This. You can have your cake and eat it, too. Honestly, it makes a LOT of headaches go away in a lot of relatively logical ways. Take the creation of the universe compared to the Big Bang. "Let there be light." Hmm. A lot of things cause light. Candles, Roman Candles are nice; hell, fireworks in general make a lot of light with a bang. Hey! That's not bad. A bang makes loads of light. Anybody who's ever experienced a flashbang in real life or videogames knows precisely what I'm talking about. Okay, so we have a bang. Now let's talk scale. We're talking the creation of the universe here, not some fly-by-night Home Depot job. This is going to be a pretty massive undertaking. But we need to be modest about it, wouldn't want all of creation thinking that its creator's got too big of a head. Nothing Grandeous or Triumphal. What about Big? My house is pretty big. I'm proud of it, but I'm not too show-offy, so I just call it big. Got it. We have our Bang, and it's a fairly Big one. I think we'd probably get too many immature chuckles if we called it the Bang Big, though. Plus it's bad grammar, can't have that. Gents, I'm proud to give voice to the idea that I know what created the known universe.

The Big Bang.

Evolution is a lie composed by Satan.

The Dark One has poisoned your soul and your mind.

[Geilinor]

http://people.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

Is just the one I can think of off the top of my head. There are several others that I'm sure one could hunt down given sufficient inclination.

Ironic that two men, in a sophisticated lab, showcasing conditions we don't really know about, are said to have proved accidental design.

Accidental design? That's a good one, heck we should change the title of this thread to "Accidental Design".

[Mavorpen]

The letters ATGC aren't that complicated.

Considering when there are millions in a pinhead though..

That's still not "complicated." Unless we're using complicated and long interchangeably. I don't see why we would, though.

[Geilinor]

The letters ATGC aren't that complicated.

Considering when there are millions in a pinhead though..

Like I said.

Molecules are small. No shit.

[Godular]

http://people.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

Is just the one I can think of off the top of my head. There are several others that I'm sure one could hunt down given sufficient inclination.

Ironic that two men, in a sophisticated lab, showcasing conditions we don't really know about, are said to have proved accidental design.

Anyway, the proteins that were produced were evenly mixed, as opposed to today, which reveals there is an 80-20% slant. As well the showing that chemicals mainly died in water, couldn't deal with heat, and had a miniuscule chance of combining together in the right sequence. So I'm saying it may have happened, but it's very unlikely, mathematically speaking, it's like getting a 3476 digit code right on the first attempt.

WHAT? WE NEEDED A COMPLICATED LAB TO REPRODUCE ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS THAT EXISTED BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO? How DARE we try to ensure that the simulated environment is as hermetically sealed as possible. How DARE we?

Many things relating to chemistry happen automatically. Given proper conditions, it just starts right up. Therefore its not like getting a passcode right, its just waiting for the dam to spring a leak.

[Neutraligon]

http://people.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

Is just the one I can think of off the top of my head. There are several others that I'm sure one could hunt down given sufficient inclination.

Ironic that two men, in a sophisticated lab, showcasing conditions we don't really know about, are said to have proved accidental design.

Anyway, the proteins that were produced were evenly mixed, as opposed to today, which reveals there is an 80-20% slant. As well the showing that chemicals mainly died in water, couldn't deal with heat, and had a miniuscule chance of combining together in the right sequence. So I'm saying it may have happened, but it's very unlikely, mathematically speaking, it's like getting a 3476 digit code right on the first attempt.

80-20% slant? What does that mean. What these people showed is that there are natural methods that can form these building blocks. Umm, water is chemicals, heat does not destroy chemicals, prove such a chance is miniscule. Show how you came to the mathematical determination. Who said ti was on the first try? Chemical reactions can and do occur all over the world.

I am still waiting for evidence of a creator.

[Securitan]

Ironic that two men, in a sophisticated lab, showcasing conditions we don't really know about, are said to have proved accidental design.

Accidental design? That's a good one, heck we should change the title of this thread to "Accidental Design".

"Damn it, Archangel Michael, I just accidentally designed mosquitoes!"

[Killdash]

I really must sleep now, it's 4am. We'll continue on the morning.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Ironic that two men, in a sophisticated lab, showcasing conditions we don't really know about, are said to have proved accidental design.

Anyway, the proteins that were produced were evenly mixed, as opposed to today, which reveals there is an 80-20% slant. As well the showing that chemicals mainly died in water, couldn't deal with heat, and had a miniuscule chance of combining together in the right sequence. So I'm saying it may have happened, but it's very unlikely, mathematically speaking, it's like getting a 3476 digit code right on the first attempt.

Do you know how many stars there are in the universe?

There have been billions upon billions of attempts.

[MERIZoC]

Accidental design? That's a good one, heck we should change the title of this thread to "Accidental Design".

"Damn it, Archangel Michael, I just accidentally designed mosquitoes!"

"Oh Heavenly Father, what did I tell you about playing with Gabriel's chemistry set?"

[Securitan]

Considering when there are millions in a pinhead though..

That's still not "complicated." Unless we're using complicated and long interchangeably. I don't see why we would, though.

I think he meant that the compounded amount of all the letters in the Library of Congress was less that the compounded amount of letters in patterns that DNA makes up in the space of a pinhead.

[Mavorpen]

That's still not "complicated." Unless we're using complicated and long interchangeably. I don't see why we would, though.

I think he meant that the compounded amount of all the letters in the Library of Congress was less that the compounded amount of letters in patters that DNA makes up in the space of a pinhead.

Well...yeah. They're small. I don't see how that conflated complexity.

[Geilinor]

That's still not "complicated." Unless we're using complicated and long interchangeably. I don't see why we would, though.

I think he meant that the compounded amount of all the letters in the Library of Congress was less that the compounded amount of letters in patterns that DNA makes up in the space of a pinhead.

How many times do I have to say this?

Molecules are small. No shit.

[Godular]

That's still not "complicated." Unless we're using complicated and long interchangeably. I don't see why we would, though.

I think he meant that the compounded amount of all the letters in the Library of Congress was less that the compounded amount of letters in patterns that DNA makes up in the space of a pinhead.

Indeed... and everything that we are reading on the internet is made up of zeros and ones. That's two numbers... got pretty complex didn't it?

[Ardoki]

How is this even a debate actually?

[Securitan]

I think he meant that the compounded amount of all the letters in the Library of Congress was less that the compounded amount of letters in patters that DNA makes up in the space of a pinhead.

Well...yeah. They're small. I don't see how that conflated complexity.

It doesn't. Combinations of 4 letters in the base pairs will be much less complex than combinations of 36+ characters that could exist in the Library of Congress (letters, numbers, symbols, etc.)

[Benuty]

ID is a crock of religious horseshit masquerading as science.

Abiogenesis is (IIRC) the best evidenced and most accepted origin theory for life and evolution is the best supported theory for how life came to arrive in its modern form.

I wouldn't exactly call Ancient Aliens "theory" religious, but rather' speciesist.

[Neutraligon]

How is this even a debate actually?

Because in the US many people believe in ID, for whatever reason.

[Geilinor]

Well...yeah. They're small. I don't see how that conflated complexity.

It doesn't. Combinations of 4 letters in the base pairs will be much less complex than combinations of 36+ characters that could exist in the Library of Congress (letters, numbers, symbols, etc.)

Small combinations are powerful. What you typed? Stored in zeros and ones.

[Securitan]

How is this even a debate actually?

It really isn't. It's just one side trying to patch holes in a dying hypothesis and the other steadily destroying it.