Communism and Socialism megathread

[San Isicio]

Following Titoism but for my own homecountry (the Netherlands).

[To Quoc Duc]

Hoxha was a terrible human being. Anyone who argues that freedom of the press is contrary to the interest of public order, and presides over a nation in which 1 in 3 Albanian people had been consigned to forced labor camps, is not someone I'd want to emulate. He was also a Maoist

I'd agree that Hoxha was a terrible human being. But to equate Hoxhaism with Maoism is wrong. Hoxhaism was basically a reaction against Maoism, since Maoism broke pretty much every core tenant of Leninism and Marxism, and Hoxha was a staunch anti revisionist.

I called him a Maoist because, initially, Hoxha was opposed to what he considered Soviet revisionism and leaned towards what he called 'the Great People's China' until the Sino-Albanian split. Even so, his policies were more in line with a pro-peasant ideology than a proletarian one.

[The New Sea Territory]

I'd agree that Hoxha was a terrible human being. But to equate Hoxhaism with Maoism is wrong. Hoxhaism was basically a reaction against Maoism, since Maoism broke pretty much every core tenant of Leninism and Marxism, and Hoxha was a staunch anti revisionist.

I called him a Maoist because, initially, Hoxha was opposed to what he considered Soviet revisionism and leaned towards what he called 'the Great People's China' until the Sino-Albanian split. Even so, his policies were more in line with a pro-peasant ideology than a proletarian one.

There is more to Maoism than support for the peasantry.

[Proletarian Anarchists]

The only good think Hoxha did was abolish military rank.

[The New Sea Territory]

The only good think Hoxha did was abolish military rank.

That is such a meaningless achievement. Really, that should be the least of a socialist's worries.

[Proletarian Anarchists]

The only good think Hoxha did was abolish military rank.

That is such a meaningless achievement. Really, that should be the least of a socialist's worries.

I know, it just shows just how how bad he was.

[United Marxist Nations]

The only good think Hoxha did was abolish military rank.

No props for eliminating malaria, nearly doubling the life expectancy, ending a legal code in which women were property, or raising literacy rates from 5-10% to Western levels?

[The New Sea Territory]

The only good think Hoxha did was abolish military rank.

No props for eliminating malaria, nearly doubling the life expectancy, ending a legal code in which women were property, or raising literacy rates from 5-10% to Western levels?

All of that could just be products of modernization, which would have happened with or without Hoxha.

[Chavista]

Democratic socialist here.

[United Marxist Nations]

No props for eliminating malaria, nearly doubling the life expectancy, ending a legal code in which women were property, or raising literacy rates from 5-10% to Western levels?

All of that could just be products of modernization, which would have happened with or without Hoxha.

He actively campaigned for women's rights and those other things. And regardless, he actually achieved them, they are accomplishments of his government. Hoxha's government did these things because he believed it ideologically necessary.

[United Russian Soviet States]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

[Conscentia]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

Social democracy and social security generally is the only reason the far left isn't more popular.
Else inequality would've kept rising and conditions for the poorest would have continued to decline, resulting in the increased radicalisation of the populace.

[Proletarian Anarchists]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

That would be saying Social Democratic parties exist in Europe.

[Conscentia]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

That would be saying Social Democratic parties exist in Europe.

They do.

[Chavista]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

Social democracy hasn't actually existed as a political ideology in Europe since I don't know...like the day Olof Palme died. So, um...yeah, not really happening. Social democracy led to regulated capitalism and just about nothing else. And now it's being systematically dismantled.

[United Marxist Nations]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

Social democracy and social security generally is the only reason the far left isn't more popular.
Else inequality would've kept rising and conditions for the poorest would have continued to decline, resulting in the increased radicalisation of the populace.

Very well said.

[United Russian Soviet States]

How much like is the British Labour Party like the Bolshevik Party?

[Proletarian Anarchists]

That would be saying Social Democratic parties exist in Europe.

They do.

You mean Podemos and Syriza?

[United Marxist Nations]

How much like is the British Labour Party like the Bolshevik Party?

Nothing at all like it.

[Conscentia]

They do.

You mean Podemos and Syriza?

No.

[Constantinopolis]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

Uh... Social democracy initially advertised itself as being able to lead to socialism, but it never came even close to fulfilling that promise.

At first, social democrats were those socialists who argued that we can abolish capitalism and achieve socialism through purely electoral means. "Just vote for us and you can get socialism without the risks and hardship associated with revolution", they said. Then they started winning elections, but never went beyond creating a simple welfare state. After the 1950s they officially abandoned the goal of moving towards socialism. Eventually, in the 1990s, social democrats in many countries embraced the Blairite "Third Way" and became essentially indistinguishable from the centre-right.

Social democracy has been the very definition of disappointment for socialists everywhere.

You have nothing to worry about.

[The New Sea Territory]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

Social Democracy isn't socialism. Doesn't really belong on this thread.

[United Russian Soviet States]

I really don't like social democracy. It is a system designed to fool the masses into thinking socialism is good. It may lead to full-blown communism. Social democratic labor parties are just as bad as the Bolshevik Party. Europe must reject social democracy!

Social Democracy isn't socialism. Doesn't really belong on this thread.

It is democratic socialism.

[Conscentia]

Social Democracy isn't socialism. Doesn't really belong on this thread.

It is democratic socialism.

No it isn't. It diverged from it quite some time ago.

[United Russian Soviet States]

It is democratic socialism.

No it isn't. It diverged from it quite some time ago.

Wikipedia says it is democratic socialism.