Communism and Socialism megathread

[United Marxist Nations]

It's not that I don't believe socialism is incompatible with secularism, but that secular socialism would only be a half victory, a matetial victory. I don't believe secularism would allow for a full cultural and mental shift away from the material objectification of liberal capitalism. To me secularism would only allow an incomplete realization of socialism.

I don't understand how this is the case.

How are you defining 'secularism' here?

To me, secularism is a system by which the state is restrained from mandating religious matters. Obviously if there's no state then secularism wouldn't really apply. Is that what you're talking about?

I'm not sure about in the case of his ideology, but for many communists and socialists (specifically, Marxist variants like myself), state and government are not the same. The state is an institution used by one class to oppress another, a government is just a decision-making body of the society. This is an important distinction because in Marxist philosophy, a proletarian state plays a vital role in achieving communism while not being communist itself.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I'm not sure about in the case of his ideology, but for many communists and socialists (specifically, Marxist variants like myself), state and government are not the same. The state is an institution used by one class to oppress another, a government is just a decision-making body of the society. This is an important distinction because in Marxist philosophy, a proletarian state plays a vital role in achieving communism while not being communist itself.

I see what you mean, and I would apply my definition of secularism to the government as well.

[United Marxist Nations]

I'm not sure about in the case of his ideology, but for many communists and socialists (specifically, Marxist variants like myself), state and government are not the same. The state is an institution used by one class to oppress another, a government is just a decision-making body of the society. This is an important distinction because in Marxist philosophy, a proletarian state plays a vital role in achieving communism while not being communist itself.

I see what you mean, and I would apply my definition of secularism to the government as well.

I figured that; I was just referring that, when saying that communism is a classless, stateless society, it is an extremely important one. With that in mind, it is entirely possible for non-secularism to exist in communism (though, I wouldn't agree with it), as the government remains in communism, just not the state. I could have made this much more clear, as I failed to really expound on that in my initial post.

[Kisinger]

Hello, how is everyone today?

[Xiahua (Ancient)]

Hello, how is everyone today?

I'm feeling very oppressed by global capitalism, and you?

[The Union of the West]

Could someone explain Ricardian Socialism to me?

[Kisinger]

Hello, how is everyone today?

I'm feeling very oppressed by global capitalism, and you?

I think we all are, overall Personally, very good smoothing things over with School, and my significant other, Politically, I feel just as oppressed by Capitalism...

[Greater Nevadian Empire]

Imperialism is better than communism

[Kisinger]

Imperialism is better than communism

How? Because, well I'm not going to bother explaining it to you just tell me how?

[Xiahua (Ancient)]

Imperialism is better than communism

Not if you're on the receiving end.

[United Marxist Nations]

Could someone explain Ricardian Socialism to me?

Not my forte, Marxian Socialism is more my thing.

[Sparunica]

In my view at least, the best way to get to communism is through revolution. This being, the fact that if you have a communist party get elected in and they serve their term, making major changes to how the country is governed and then they don't get elected in the following election and some right wing conservatives or nationalists get in, all the progress made is reduced to nothing. Additionally, the major changes that take place in communism would be far more suited, in my opinion at least, to a post-revolutionary nation. This being because the country is already in such a state from political change that it can deal with the major social and economic changes without creating a shitstorm. I'm all for democracy, but full democracy with both far left and right wing parties will never get far on the road to communism.

[Arkolon]

Could someone explain Ricardian Socialism to me?

It's like free market capitalism except the only businesses allowed are worker-owned and worker-managed cooperatives. It's supposed to get rid of the supposed systemic oppression workers face under capitalism, while being economically literate in the likes of Adam Smith and the first Ricardian, David Ricardo. It's like, uhh, 'free market socialism' really.

[Bolnoa]

I like how most socialists/ciommunists on this forum are middle class children from first world countriess

Out of school a while back.

I dunno about me being a first world kinda guy....unless you count Cuba(formerly where I lived) and Angola first world countries.

Also countries*

[Kumuri]

I like how most socialists/ciommunists on this forum are middle class children from first world countriess

Out of school a while back.

I dunno about me being a first world kinda guy....unless you count Cuba(formerly where I lived) and Angola first world countries.

Also countries*

I like how so many people think the country you live in is the most important factor in determining whether or not you're a good communist.
Like everyone in Germany is a Nazi. All those communists resisting Hitler? Nope, they were Nazis too. Totally.

[Proletarian Anarchists]

Hello everybody!

[Proletarian Anarchists]

Could someone explain Ricardian Socialism to me?

Not my forte, Marxian Socialism is more my thing.

Says the Marxist-Leninist.

[Bratislavskaya]

Well Comrades I have been making a few posters for the cause, so I though I'd leave a link to them.

[Arkolon]

Well Comrades I have been making a few posters for the cause, so I though I'd leave a link to them.

>nazism
>right-wing

lawl

[Conscentia]

Well Comrades I have been making a few posters for the cause, so I though I'd leave a link to them.

>nazism
>right-wing

lawl

Nazism is right-wing. It's like the furthest right you can go.
Why would you think otherwise?

[Arkolon]

>nazism
>right-wing

lawl

Nazism is right-wing. It's like the furthest right you can go.
Why would you think otherwise?

The very origins and principles of fascism and Nazism are rooted in political syncretism. It is not right-wing, nor is it left-wing. It is a 1920s-fragment of cultural and political syncretism.

[United Marxist Nations]

Not my forte, Marxian Socialism is more my thing.

Says the Marxist-Leninist.

Marxism-Leninism is a variant of Marxist philosophy, yes.

[Shigiel]

In answer to the poll, I think "Leninist" would fit me the best out of the options.

*waits for Leninists to tell me I have an infantile disorder*

Could someone explain Ricardian Socialism to me?

Arkolon explained it well. In one sentence, I'd say: "worker-managed capital." It's like mutualism but with a state.

Not my forte, Marxian Socialism is more my thing.

Says the Marxist-Leninist.

And the two are incompatible because...?

Nazism is right-wing. It's like the furthest right you can go.
Why would you think otherwise?

The very origins and principles of fascism and Nazism are rooted in political syncretism. It is not right-wing, nor is it left-wing. It is a 1920s-fragment of cultural and political syncretism.

The labels "left" and "right" can mean a lot of things; Nazism is certainly "right" in the sense that it is reactionary and socially conservative.

[Bearon]

Where's the whateverist poll option?

[Conscentia]

Nazism is right-wing. It's like the furthest right you can go.
Why would you think otherwise?

The very origins and principles of fascism and Nazism are rooted in political syncretism. It is not right-wing, nor is it left-wing. It is a 1920s-fragment of cultural and political syncretism.

You are mistaken.
The left-wing ideas it absorbed were the left's rejection and criticisms of the liberal laissez-faire right, and rejection of the traditionalist right. They did not however take on the defining trait of the left: egalitarianism. In-fact, they reject it vehemently.
The fascists created a new progressive right-wing - one which sought to subsume all into the State. This is the foundation and most important defining characteristic of fascism - totalitarianism.

They appealed to the working classes for reasons of populism (the working classes would have to be made loyal to the State, just like everything else), and the fear and hatred of communism, which was fascism's main idealogical rival as they fought to win over the working classes. In the end, neither won out.