Communism and Socialism megathread

[United Marxist Nations]

I don't know how to feel about Hoxha. I've only heard good things, but there must be some reason he isn't revered amongst socialists in general.

Ceausescu is a definite no from me, tho. I cannot contain my disdain.

Probably because Hoxha hated everything that called itself socialist but wasn't Hoxhaist.
Heard he did some great things regardless of that.

Meanwhile Ceausescu just pretended to be a king.

No, Hoxha hated people called socialists who tried to force other socialists to do what they wanted (e.g. he left the Warsaw Pact over the Czechs getting invaded).

[Threlizdun]

Probably because Hoxha hated everything that called itself socialist but wasn't Hoxhaist.
Heard he did some great things regardless of that.

Meanwhile Ceausescu just pretended to be a king.

No, Hoxha hated people called socialists who tried to force other socialists to do what they wanted (e.g. he left the Warsaw Pact over the Czechs getting invaded).

Because if there is one thing Hoxha is known for, it's his open-minded and tolerant attitudes towards those who disagreed with his interpretation of "socialism".

[The Northern Kingdoms]

I have a question: Is Nordic Socialism a kind of Democratic Socialism?

[Conscentia]

I have a question: Is Nordic Socialism a kind of Democratic Socialism?

What is "Nordic Socialism"?

Additionally, do not capitalise words that aren't at the start of a sentence and aren't proper nouns.

[Alsheb]

+1

I don't know how to feel about Hoxha. I've only heard good things, but there must be some reason he isn't revered amongst socialists in general.

Ceausescu is a definite no from me, tho. I cannot contain my disdain.

His legacy in Albania was definitely positive, all in all. But he seems to have been a bit of a pain to work with on an international level.

[United Marxist Nations]

No, Hoxha hated people called socialists who tried to force other socialists to do what they wanted (e.g. he left the Warsaw Pact over the Czechs getting invaded).

Because if there is one thing Hoxha is known for, it's his open-minded and tolerant attitudes towards those who disagreed with his interpretation of "socialism".

Hoxha indeed wrote books decrying them. Executions weren't that frequent, mostly because there weren't that many socialists in Albania to begin with.

[Alsheb]

And Ceaucescu was a douche, yes. But his case is actually very interesting for rebuking several anti-communist myths about the Warsaw Pact and Socialism in general.

- Ceacescu was a reformist and revisionist, in a way even more extreme than Krushchev. He came to power on a program of reform and the end of the "stalinist" era. Which is funny, considering that anti-communists always portray him as a usual "communist tyrant".

- Ceacescu had very cold relations with pretty much all Warsaw Pact member states. Ceaucescu effectively pulled Romania out of the Warsaw Pact in everything but name, ensuring the country no longer participated in any joint military exercises, defence trainings and war games. For a military alliance, that made the Romanian membership in fact null and void. Ceaucescu alson openly supported Aleksandr Dubcek in Cezchoslovakia, and condemned the Warsaw Pact intervention.

- Consequently, he was very popular in Western capitalist circles, ranking just below Tito in the "good commies" category. Ceausescu's Romania went even as far to have official relationships with Western Germany (even though the West German Hallstein Doctrine forbade the Bonn government from establishing official ties to any country, aside from the USSR itself, that recognized the independence of the German Democratic Republic. Even though Ceaucescu continued to recognize the GDR, West Germany saw the "potential" of Ceaucescu and as such made an exception to the rule for him) and even officially recognizing and maintaining official relations with Israel.

- Anti-communists are always fond of saying that the USSR controlled all of the Warsaw Pact, and invaded and killed everyone who spoke up. Yet here was this madman who openly condemned the Warsaw Pact, supported zionism and effectively had withdrawn his country from the alliance with the Soviets. And yet at no point at all has there been any Soviet intervention to bring Ceaucescu down, even though there were easily more authentic Communists around to replace him, such as his rival Gheorghe Apostol. This again shows a fallacy in anti-communist rhetoric.

[Caltarania]

Just a footnote that I put myself as Democratic Socialist on the poll, though in reality I am an English British Socialist. Well, somewhat. Honestly even I am confused about my doctrine at times.

[Algutha]

#eventuallyyourunoutofotherpeoplesmoney

[Alsheb]

#eventuallyyourunoutofotherpeoplesmoney

How is it other people's money if the produced wealth in the economy is government property anyway?
That's almost as big a fallacy as saying "everyone is poor under Socialism", which makes no logical sense in any way either.

[Zakuvia]

#eventuallyyourunoutofotherpeoplesmoney

How is it other people's money if the produced wealth in the economy is government property anyway?
That's almost as big a fallacy as saying "everyone is poor under Socialism", which makes no logical sense in any way either.

People are only used to Stalinist State Capitalism (and yes, you can capitalize that, as it's an economic/political ideology, ala Conservatism or Keynesian Theory), and have had the Nordic Model suppressed from them. It's so terrifying to see a Socialist state that's not North Korea that it only makes sense to keep it on the low.

[Alsheb]

How is it other people's money if the produced wealth in the economy is government property anyway?
That's almost as big a fallacy as saying "everyone is poor under Socialism", which makes no logical sense in any way either.

People are only used to Stalinist State Capitalism (and yes, you can capitalize that, as it's an economic/political ideology, ala Conservatism or Keynesian Theory), and have had the Nordic Model suppressed from them. It's so terrifying to see a Socialist state that's not North Korea that it only makes sense to keep it on the low.

Yeah... I don't agree with you on the concept of "stalinism" even existing, but I get your point.

[Berkhamsted]

How is it other people's money if the produced wealth in the economy is government property anyway?
That's almost as big a fallacy as saying "everyone is poor under Socialism", which makes no logical sense in any way either.

People are only used to Stalinist State Capitalism (and yes, you can capitalize that, as it's an economic/political ideology, ala Conservatism or Keynesian Theory), and have had the Nordic Model suppressed from them. It's so terrifying to see a Socialist state that's not North Korea that it only makes sense to keep it on the low.

The Nordic Model isn't socialist. A strong welfare state (which is being eroded in these countries btw) inside a capitalist framework doesn't equal socialism.

[Conscentia]

How is it other people's money if the produced wealth in the economy is government property anyway?
That's almost as big a fallacy as saying "everyone is poor under Socialism", which makes no logical sense in any way either.

People are only used to Stalinist State Capitalism (and yes, you can capitalize that, as it's an economic/political ideology, ala Conservatism or Keynesian Theory), and have had the Nordic Model suppressed from them. It's so terrifying to see a Socialist state that's not North Korea that it only makes sense to keep it on the low.

Not all ideologies are proper nouns.
When you capitalise the word "conservatism" to "Conservatism", you refer to a proper noun - generally the specific ideology/policies of a "Conservative Party".

[Conscentia]

People are only used to Stalinist State Capitalism (and yes, you can capitalize that, as it's an economic/political ideology, ala Conservatism or Keynesian Theory), and have had the Nordic Model suppressed from them. It's so terrifying to see a Socialist state that's not North Korea that it only makes sense to keep it on the low.

Yeah... I don't agree with you on the concept of "stalinism" even existing, but I get your point.

Stalinism refers to the ideology and policies of Stalin.

[United Russian Soviet States]

Do you people think there are a lot of communists or socialists working in the American media?

[Conscentia]

Do you people think there are a lot of communists or socialists working in the American media?

Don't be ridiculous.

[Jinwoy]

Do you people think there are a lot of communists or socialists working in the American media?

Don't be ridiculous.

There are a lot of LIBERALS, but not Socialists or Communists.

[Webus]

It is good to see that most of the people here are fellow anarcho-communists. I also think democratic socialism is a good idea until anarcho-communism becomes popular in the real world. How many of you guys have read " The Conquest of Bread"?

[New Neros]

It is good to see that most of the people here are fellow anarcho-communists. I also think democratic socialism is a good idea until anarcho-communism becomes popular in the real world. How many of you guys have read " The Conquest of Bread"?

silly anarcho-pipe dreams. Syndicalism is where it's at.

[Algutha]

#eventuallyyourunoutofotherpeoplesmoney
it's other people's money because the government is only earning money by collecting it from citizens. If i, a hard worker earn the same amount as a slouch, why should I work? Why take from people who do work and give to those who dont?

[Proletarian Anarchists]

#eventuallyyourunoutofotherpeoplesmoney
it's other people's money because the government is only earning money by collecting it from citizens. If i, a hard worker earn the same amount as a slouch, why should I work? Why take from people who do work and give to those who dont?

*face palm*

[Jinwoy]

#eventuallyyourunoutofotherpeoplesmoney
it's other people's money because the government is only earning money by collecting it from citizens. If i, a hard worker earn the same amount as a slouch, why should I work? Why take from people who do work and give to those who dont?

That... isn't Socialism... or Communism either...
That's just bourgeois welfare, it can only operate under a capitalist system.

[The New Sea Territory]

No, Hoxha hated people called socialists who tried to force other socialists to do what they wanted (e.g. he left the Warsaw Pact over the Czechs getting invaded).

Because if there is one thing Hoxha is known for, it's his open-minded and tolerant attitudes towards those who disagreed with his interpretation of "socialism".

That's why he banned beards.

[The New Sea Territory]

It is good to see that most of the people here are fellow anarcho-communists. I also think democratic socialism is a good idea until anarcho-communism becomes popular in the real world. How many of you guys have read " The Conquest of Bread"?

silly anarcho-pipe dreams. Syndicalism is where it's at.

Syndicalism is a good theory. I prefer mutualism, as markets can be extremely beneficial to society, so long as they are stripped of exploitation and private property.