Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Benian Republic]

The thing is the woman should have total authority over body.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I've already said medical reasons are acceptable.. and I'm saying it wholeheartedly not just for the sake of saying it.

Really if it were up to me I think I'd probably make abortion free.

then why are you obsessing over something that doesn't happen?

I asked first

And we already ban late-term abortions due to their controversy, or at least severely restrict it in the unites states to medical cases.

I don't find a 6-month fetus that different from a baby myself, but a 3 month old fetus? Yea, I have a hard time believing that it can make any sort of difference whether a woman aborts or not.

I know they're outlawed already, which apparently runs contrary to some posters' beliefs here.

I've no problem with any abortion other than late-term non-medical ones.

Since these are supposedly so rare anyways, I wonder why so many people are making such a concerted effort at defending them..

..since I've very clearly repeatedly clarified what I'm talking about.

[0507011209200118090114]

I'm pro-choice, like the rest of the civilized world.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

How else are you going to end a pregnancy without killing the fetus or having a C-section, when possible?

The unborn can die in the womb, and with the exception of zombies and vampires it isn't possible to kill that which is already dead.

So you're repeating what I said?

[Genivaria]

Well, yeah. It has to do with you insisting on the right to life being trumped to the right to bodily integrity while refusing to substantiating why, despite the fact that the opposite is the precedent in all similar cases. We don't, for example, force people to donate organs, which would definitely save more lives. We also don't tell a woman who has killed a rapist, "How DARE you take away his right to life!?" So why should this precedent be changed?

Forcing living people to donate organs is extemely dangerous.
Your second example is bad-partly because it is about someone forcefully and willingly attacking someone else, partly because deadly force can be illegal, even in this situation(if you have other options(well, that doesn't happen too often...) or if the act of killing wouldn't be self-defense but just revenge)
And those are different:
Ask yourself: Why is there any unborn inside the mother, needing her body?
Because the mother had chosen to perform an act potentially resulting in exactly that. She is responsible for the child.
And bodily integrity is not really a strong argument- because it has ceased to be exclusively the womans body.

Who's body do you think it is if not the women's body?

[Benian Republic]

I'm pro-choice, like the rest of the civilized world.

[Benian Republic]

I'm pro-choice, like the rest of the civilized world.

[Ashmoria]

The unborn can die in the womb, and with the exception of zombies and vampires it isn't possible to kill that which is already dead.

So you're repeating what I said?

so you are in fact pro choice but squeamish over the possibility of choices that you would find reprehensible?

[Old Hope]

Forcing living people to donate organs is extemely dangerous.
Your second example is bad-partly because it is about someone forcefully and willingly attacking someone else, partly because deadly force can be illegal, even in this situation...
And those are different:
Ask yourself: Why is there any unborn inside the mother, needing her body?
Because the mother had chosen to perform an act potentially resulting in exactly that. She is responsible for the child.
And bodily integrity is not really a strong argument- because it has ceased to be exclusively the womans body.

Sometimes contraceptive measures fail. Abortion should not be a first-line contraceptive measure but it should always be available when the first-line measures fail. Women should not be punished for having sex.

It is not a form of punishment. Why do you think that?
Being the womans body exclusively? No. It is a shared body.

[Ashmoria]

Sometimes contraceptive measures fail. Abortion should not be a first-line contraceptive measure but it should always be available when the first-line measures fail. Women should not be punished for having sex.

It is not a form of punishment. Why do you think that?
Being the womans body exclusively? No. It is a shared body.

are you suggesting that only MEN have true bodily integrity?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

So you're repeating what I said?

so you are in fact pro choice but squeamish over the possibility of choices that you would find reprehensible?

Did it seriously took you this long to pick that up?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

It is not a form of punishment. Why do you think that?
Being the womans body exclusively? No. It is a shared body.

are you suggesting that only MEN have true bodily integrity?

I think he means like with the baby. Uhh fetus.

[Ashmoria]

so you are in fact pro choice but squeamish over the possibility of choices that you would find reprehensible?

Did it seriously took you this long to pick that up?

*shaking my head*

[Farnhamia]

are you suggesting that only MEN have true bodily integrity?

I think he means like with the baby. Uhh fetus.

So women have to put up with shared bodily integrity, whether they agree to it or not, but men don't?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Did it seriously took you this long to pick that up?

*shaking my head*

Again, this baffles me:

Since these are supposedly so rare anyways, I wonder why so many people are making such a concerted effort at defending them..

Iff, for example, knows full well what I mean since we've been through this before ; yet, he still feels it is necessary to defend non-medical non-C-section (if you want to call that an abortion) late-term abortions

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I think he means like with the baby. Uhh fetus.

So women have to put up with shared bodily integrity, whether they agree to it or not, but men don't?

what?

don't ask me.

[Ashmoria]

are you suggesting that only MEN have true bodily integrity?

I think he means like with the baby. Uhh fetus.

yeah i think that's what he means. that a woman's body is shared with the fetus she is carrying.

[Butballs]

From the moment of conception, towards the end of life, they are humans. The fetus, and babies are the most innocent members of society. It puts me in tears that some ass would kill the poor citizens. However, in special cases, such as rape THAT CANT BE PREVENTED, and maternal health, is when the human can be murded.

[Betoni]

There is a reason why it is called a zygote, blastocyst, embryo and a fetus before they are referred to as a baby. (Note that the term parasite is not included in the list.)

[Soviet Haaregrad]

I believe all people own their bodies and have the right to remove unwanted parasites from them, regardless of how the parasitic infection occurred or what species the infectious parasite is.
I find the concept of forced pregnancy morally reprehensible.

I suppose these two beliefs would put me firmly in the 'pro-choice' camp.

In these debates, someone always says the word "parasite" at least once.

Kudos, for not caring.

Accurate terminology doesn't mean a lack of caring. I care deeply for the person affected by an unwanted pregnancy. Anti-choicers make the person secondary to the potential person she caries.

[Socialist Czechia]

From the moment of conception, towards the end of life, they are humans. The fetus, and babies are the most innocent members of society. It puts me in tears that some ass would kill the poor citizens. However, in special cases, such as rape THAT CANT BE PREVENTED, and maternal health, is when the human can be murded.

No, human being doesn't exist from one second of meeting between egg and cum.

Even Jews and Muslims can admit it.

[Mavorpen]

Ask yourself: Why is there any unborn inside the mother, needing her body?
Because the mother had chosen to perform an act potentially resulting in exactly that. She is responsible for the child.
And bodily integrity is not really a strong argument- because it has ceased to be exclusively the womans body.

Ask yourself:why is here a penis inside of the woman?
Because the woman had chosen to consent to to an act leading to exactly that. She is responsible for pleasing the man to the end. What a fantastic argument for rape you have there.

[Ifreann]

The unborn can die in the womb, and with the exception of zombies and vampires it isn't possible to kill that which is already dead.

So you're repeating what I said?

No, I'm pointing out a situation in which one can end a pregnancy without killing the foetus.

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I think he means like with the baby. Uhh fetus.

So women have to put up with shared bodily integrity, whether they agree to it or not, but men don't?

It's uter-us, not uter-you.

[Old Hope]

It is not a form of punishment. Why do you think that?
Being the womans body exclusively? No. It is a shared body.

are you suggesting that only MEN have true bodily integrity?

I am just saying that if your actions cause your body to be shared with someone else, you have to accept that you shouldn't do something with your body that kills them.

[Farnhamia]

So you're repeating what I said?

No, I'm pointing out a situation in which one can end a pregnancy without killing the foetus.

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So women have to put up with shared bodily integrity, whether they agree to it or not, but men don't?

It's uter-us, not uter-you.

I set myself up for that one, didn't I?