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Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you support an individual's right to have an abortion?

Yes, absolutely!
1064
55%
Yes, but only in certain circumstances (please specify in a post)
509
26%
No, never!
365
19%
 
Total votes : 1938

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:53 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Quite to the contrary, they're valid when they make sense.

You evidently don't know how young kids think.

Who discusses abortion with little kids?


That's my point.

Parents typically don't actively advocate pro-choice ideas.

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:55 am

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Who discusses abortion with little kids?


Well, I always thought nursery rhymes about abortion would be quite a niche market...


Ever heard Ring a Ring o' Roses?

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:55 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Who discusses abortion with little kids?


That's my point.

Parents typically don't actively advocate pro-choice ideas.

And I think you're wrong in thinking that.
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The Five Galaxies
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Postby The Five Galaxies » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:55 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Who discusses abortion with little kids?


That's my point.

Parents typically don't actively advocate pro-choice ideas.


Still though, how is this relevant at all?

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:55 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:And again, you're making claims with utterly no substantiation, so I'm not surprised you don't understand what "prochoice" actually means.

I'll give you a hint. It doesn't mean you personally like abortion or would have one. I support the right to engage in homosexual sex. That doesn't mean I would actually do it myself. Your logic is childishly black and white.


There's a fairly substantial difference between most "I support such and such but don't do it personally" and "I support abortion but have kids".

Maybe it's just me, but having kids and supporting abortion seems like a difficult stance for a parent to take. For a young child, it's pretty much the equivalent of saying "you're adopted" or "just remember little Jimmy, I can always disown you".

No it's not. If anything it affirms that the parents very much did want their child.

Though I must say, this idea that parents might find it awkward to talk to their young children about abortion and therefore could not possibly support abortion is very amusing to me. After all, how many parents talk to their young children about their sex lives? Have your parents ever recounted for you the tale of how you were conceived in all its sweaty, messy, grunting glory? Do you assume from that that they don't support having sex?

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:56 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:No.

No it isn't. Again, you have had SEVERAL PEOPLE tell you otherwise. Are anecdotes only valid if YOU like them?


Quite to the contrary, they're valid when they make sense.

You evidently don't know how young kids think.

Right then, so you selectively believe only the ones that conform to your unsubstantiated claim. Got it.

I don't really care about how you believe they think. You haven't given a single shred of evidence.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:57 am

Ifreann wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
There's a fairly substantial difference between most "I support such and such but don't do it personally" and "I support abortion but have kids".

Maybe it's just me, but having kids and supporting abortion seems like a difficult stance for a parent to take. For a young child, it's pretty much the equivalent of saying "you're adopted" or "just remember little Jimmy, I can always disown you".

No it's not. If anything it affirms that the parents very much did want their child.

Though I must say, this idea that parents might find it awkward to talk to their young children about abortion and therefore could not possibly support abortion is very amusing to me. After all, how many parents talk to their young children about their sex lives? Have your parents ever recounted for you the tale of how you were conceived in all its sweaty, messy, grunting glory? Do you assume from that that they don't support having sex?

That's the trouble with civilization. Back in my day, everyone knew about the sweaty, messy, grunting glory because, well, it was right there.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:57 am

Ifreann wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
There's a fairly substantial difference between most "I support such and such but don't do it personally" and "I support abortion but have kids".

Maybe it's just me, but having kids and supporting abortion seems like a difficult stance for a parent to take. For a young child, it's pretty much the equivalent of saying "you're adopted" or "just remember little Jimmy, I can always disown you".

No it's not. If anything it affirms that the parents very much did want their child.

Though I must say, this idea that parents might find it awkward to talk to their young children about abortion and therefore could not possibly support abortion is very amusing to me. After all, how many parents talk to their young children about their sex lives? Have your parents ever recounted for you the tale of how you were conceived in all its sweaty, messy, grunting glory? Do you assume from that that they don't support having sex?


At least I learned some sex positions from my parents' anecdotes.
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Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

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The United Colonies of Earth
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Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:57 am

Let the one with the fetus in them choose.
The United Colonies of Earth exists:
to encourage settlement of all habitable worlds in the Galaxy and perhaps the Universe by the human race;
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and to facilitate cooperation in the spheres of law, transportation, communication, and measurement between nation-states.

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:58 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
That's my point.

Parents typically don't actively advocate pro-choice ideas.

And I think you're wrong in thinking that.


Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"

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The Five Galaxies
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Postby The Five Galaxies » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:58 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And I think you're wrong in thinking that.


Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"


Ignoring the fact that that might very well be true, why would they tell him that?

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:59 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And I think you're wrong in thinking that.


Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"

Riiight, so now you're shifting the goal posts and backpedaling from just being pro choice to actually considering abortion, which is the connection we don't buy in the first place.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:59 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And I think you're wrong in thinking that.


Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"

That's bad sitcom dialogue, that is.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:00 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And I think you're wrong in thinking that.


Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"


I've had that talk, I did not feel bad about it.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:00 am

The Five Galaxies wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"


Ignoring the fact that that might very well be true, why would they tell him that?


Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:01 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"

That's bad sitcom dialogue, that is.


There's worse ways it could have been phrased
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:01 am

Sanctissima wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:And I think you're wrong in thinking that.


Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"

You're the only one who thinks that conversation would even take place.
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:01 am

Sanctissima wrote:
The Five Galaxies wrote:
Ignoring the fact that that might very well be true, why would they tell him that?


Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?


No. It makes perfect sense.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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The Five Galaxies
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Postby The Five Galaxies » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:02 am

Sanctissima wrote:
The Five Galaxies wrote:
Ignoring the fact that that might very well be true, why would they tell him that?


Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?


Why care about what could have happened when it quite evidently did not happen?

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:02 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Perhaps, but if I am, there's probably a lot of awkward dinner table conversations going on.

"By the way Jimmy, your mother and I considered aborting you"

That's bad sitcom dialogue, that is.


What? You don't like my 50's dialogue? :(

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:02 am

Sanctissima wrote:
The Five Galaxies wrote:
Ignoring the fact that that might very well be true, why would they tell him that?


Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?

No. Like I said, just because you don't grasp the concept of a child not giving a shit that their parent is pro choice doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:02 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No it's not. If anything it affirms that the parents very much did want their child.

Though I must say, this idea that parents might find it awkward to talk to their young children about abortion and therefore could not possibly support abortion is very amusing to me. After all, how many parents talk to their young children about their sex lives? Have your parents ever recounted for you the tale of how you were conceived in all its sweaty, messy, grunting glory? Do you assume from that that they don't support having sex?

That's the trouble with civilization. Back in my day, everyone knew about the sweaty, messy, grunting glory because, well, it was right there.

Prudishness was born when we first built dwellings large enough to have separate bedrooms.


Soldati senza confini wrote:
Ifreann wrote:No it's not. If anything it affirms that the parents very much did want their child.

Though I must say, this idea that parents might find it awkward to talk to their young children about abortion and therefore could not possibly support abortion is very amusing to me. After all, how many parents talk to their young children about their sex lives? Have your parents ever recounted for you the tale of how you were conceived in all its sweaty, messy, grunting glory? Do you assume from that that they don't support having sex?


At least I learned some sex positions from my parents' anecdotes.

And I'm sure you're not the only one, but I don't think that's especially common.

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:03 am

Soldati senza confini wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?


No. It makes perfect sense.


So you don't feel even a tad bit awkward at the idea that your parents may or may not have discussed aborting you? Them being pro-choice implies that they were at least open to the idea.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:03 am

Sanctissima wrote:
The Five Galaxies wrote:
Ignoring the fact that that might very well be true, why would they tell him that?


Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?

That doesn't automatically mean that they were almost aborted. :palm: :palm: Do you have even logic?
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"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed. And those killing it have names and addresses." -Utah Phillips

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Sanctissima
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:04 am

Genivaria wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Half the people here have so far stated that their parents are pro-choice. That implies they've talked with them about abortion.

Being someone's child, would that not feel awkward?

That doesn't automatically mean that they were almost aborted. :palm: :palm: Do you have even logic?


It implies that there was the probability that their parents may have considered it, or even discussed it.

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