Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Sanctissima]

The same circumstance applies.

Look at it this way, if hypothetically speaking there was an afterlife, and each person could choose whether or not they wanted to go there (the alternative being total death and subsequent non-existence), the likely deduction is that most people would choose to go to the afterlife. Just like most fetuses (if they were fully sentient beings) would choose to live rather than never exist as human beings.

Yes. But they aren't, aren't they ? And that is where your argument completely and utterly breaks down.
Basic philosophy. Read about it sometime

Except they will be. The odds of their becoming fully sentient beings is pretty good.

And on a side note, I probably know far more about philosophy than you. Then again, I find it enormously boring and trivial, so who knows.

[Patridam]

Fun fact, fetal cells are alive.

Irrelevant. Fun fact analogy: cancer cells are alive.

It doesn't matter if it's alive, has a heartbeat, or can talk. You cannot force a woman to carry a fetus.

You most certainly can. I believe what you meant to say was "shouldn't (in my opinion)".

[Arach-Naga Combine]

Irrelevant. Fun fact analogy: cancer cells are alive.

It doesn't matter if it's alive, has a heartbeat, or can talk. You cannot force a woman to carry a fetus.

It's also entirely false to say a fetus is not alive.

Nobody said they weren't. I'm just pointing out to you that referencing life is utterly useless in this debate. If living things desire protection, go start picketing cancer treatment centers.

[Pragia]

It's also entirely false to say a fetus is not alive.

Nobody said they weren't. I'm just pointing out to you that referencing life is utterly useless in this debate. If living things desire protection, go start picketing cancer treatment centers.

I just adressed a person trying to claim they weren't, please actually read the full post.

[Tekeristan]

A fetus is made out of living tissue.
But I don't really care.

To me, its more of a "Modernization" and rights issue.
Even if its beat down now, it will come up again and again in the future till it is passed.

[Patridam]

It's also entirely false to say a fetus is not alive.

Nobody said they weren't. I'm just pointing out to you that referencing life is utterly useless in this debate. If living things desire protection, go start picketing cancer treatment centers.

Killing cancer cells is self defense against a (living) entity doing its best at trying to kill you. It's like shooting the robber in your house who is currently aiming a weapon at you.

Killing a fetus is murder against a (living) entity doing its best to survive and thrive. It's like shooting your neighbor when he comes over to ask for a cup of sugar.

[Tekeristan]

Nobody said they weren't. I'm just pointing out to you that referencing life is utterly useless in this debate. If living things desire protection, go start picketing cancer treatment centers.

Killing cancer cells is self defense against a (living) entity doing its best at trying to kill you. It's like shooting the robber in your house who is currently aiming a weapon at you.

Killing a fetus is murder against a (living) entity doing its best to survive and thrive. It's like shooting your neighbor when he comes over to ask for a cup of sugar.

Its much different if the neighbor is a surprise and takes your sugar anyway.

[Patridam]

Killing cancer cells is self defense against a (living) entity doing its best at trying to kill you. It's like shooting the robber in your house who is currently aiming a weapon at you.

Killing a fetus is murder against a (living) entity doing its best to survive and thrive. It's like shooting your neighbor when he comes over to ask for a cup of sugar.

Its much different if the neighbor is a surprise and takes your sugar anyway.

Not really. Killing someone who takes your sugar without asking after he's already left your house is still murder.

In any case, that's what condoms and birth control pills and the morning after pills are for: to protect your sugar.

[Sanctissima]

Killing cancer cells is self defense against a (living) entity doing its best at trying to kill you. It's like shooting the robber in your house who is currently aiming a weapon at you.

Killing a fetus is murder against a (living) entity doing its best to survive and thrive. It's like shooting your neighbor when he comes over to ask for a cup of sugar.

Its much different if the neighbor is a surprise and takes your sugar anyway.

Technically speaking, in the case of pregnancy, the woman usually leaves out a 'Welcome' mat (i.e: had sex).

Yeah, not the most accurate analogy, but it's not like a pregnant woman (unless she was raped or really drunk) is totally not responsible for her pregnancy. She would have, after all, known that there's always a chance pregnancy can result from having sex.

[Tekeristan]

Its much different if the neighbor is a surprise and takes your sugar anyway.

Not really. Killing someone who takes your sugar without asking after he's already left your house is still murder.

In any case, that's what condoms and birth control pills and the morning after pills are for: to protect your sugar.

If the morning after pills don't work?
Or it is unknown that there was a break in the condom or that the birth control failed?

Not everyone is prepared to raise a child(s) both mentally and financially.

[Arach-Naga Combine]

Nobody said they weren't. I'm just pointing out to you that referencing life is utterly useless in this debate. If living things desire protection, go start picketing cancer treatment centers.

I just adressed a person trying to claim they weren't, please actually read the full post.

You did not respond to any claim that a fetus was not alive. You responded to someone remarking upon the fact that being dead is of no concern to the dead.

Nobody said they weren't. I'm just pointing out to you that referencing life is utterly useless in this debate. If living things desire protection, go start picketing cancer treatment centers.

Killing cancer cells is self defense against a (living) entity doing its best at trying to kill you. It's like shooting the robber in your house who is currently aiming a weapon at you.
Killing a fetus is murder against a (living) entity doing its best to survive and thrive. It's like shooting your neighbor when he comes over to ask for a cup of sugar.

Cancer cells have no intent to kill anything. You're special pleading a fetus into having a right to survival because it is alive, and yet special pleading that living cancer cells have no right to survival.

[Patridam]

Not really. Killing someone who takes your sugar without asking after he's already left your house is still murder.

In any case, that's what condoms and birth control pills and the morning after pills are for: to protect your sugar.

If the morning after pills don't work?
Or it is unknown that there was a break in the condom or that the birth control failed?

Not everyone is prepared to raise a child(s) both mentally and financially.

Which is why the foster/adoption system exists.

Cancer cells have no intent to kill anything. You're special pleading a fetus into having a right to survival because it is alive, and yet special pleading that living cancer cells have no right to survival.

You'll notice I agree abortion should be legal where the mother's life is threatened.

Do cancer cells grow to become a breathing, thinking, sentient and sapient being?

[Arach-Naga Combine]

If the morning after pills don't work?
Or it is unknown that there was a break in the condom or that the birth control failed?
Not everyone is prepared to raise a child(s) both mentally and financially.

Which is why the foster/adoption system exists.

Cancer cells have no intent to kill anything. You're special pleading a fetus into having a right to survival because it is alive, and yet special pleading that living cancer cells have no right to survival.

Do cancer cells grow to become a breathing, thinking, sentient and sapient being?

Most zygotes don't. And you've shifted the goalposts. Does life matter or not?

And glad to see that you aren't a lunatic that thinks women should be forced to carry the products of rape to term. Just someone who thinks they should carry most other zygotes to term against their will.

[Pragia]

Which is why the foster/adoption system exists.


Do cancer cells grow to become a breathing, thinking, sentient and sapient being?

Most zygotes don't. And you've shifted the goalposts. Does life matter or not?

Please source that, and miscarriages aren't intentional.

[Arach-Naga Combine]

Most zygotes don't. And you've shifted the goalposts. Does life matter or not?

Please source that, and miscarriages aren't intentional.

Quick secondary source, must attend to other matters.

[Patridam]

Most zygotes don't. And you've shifted the goalposts. Does life matter or not?

And glad to see that you aren't a lunatic that thinks women should be forced to carry the products of rape to term. Just someone who thinks they should carry most other zygotes to term against their will.

HUMAN life matters.

As someone who eats bacon and cleans bacteria from floors, not all life matters, but human life certainly does.

[Mondoncon]

Most zygotes don't. And you've shifted the goalposts. Does life matter or not?

And glad to see that you aren't a lunatic that thinks women should be forced to carry the products of rape to term. Just someone who thinks they should carry most other zygotes to term against their will.

HUMAN life matters.

As someone who eats bacon and cleans bacteria from floors, not all life matters, but human life certainly does.

Why?

[Patridam]

HUMAN life matters.

As someone who eats bacon and cleans bacteria from floors, not all life matters, but human life certainly does.

Why?

Are you legitimately asking why human life matters? Why we shouldn't murder people willy-nilly?

[Sanctissima]

HUMAN life matters.

As someone who eats bacon and cleans bacteria from floors, not all life matters, but human life certainly does.

Why?

Because we're highly intelligent sentient lifeforms.

In a universe that's mostly inorganic matter and giant balls of flaming gas, we're pretty special.

[Godular]

Yes. But they aren't, aren't they ? And that is where your argument completely and utterly breaks down.
Basic philosophy. Read about it sometime

Except they will be. The odds of their becoming fully sentient beings is pretty good.

And on a side note, I probably know far more about philosophy than you. Then again, I find it enormously boring and trivial, so who knows.

Argument from potential is worthless.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Why?

Are you legitimately asking why human life matters? Why we shouldn't murder people willy-nilly?

Abortion =/= murder, try again.

[Pragia]

Except they will be. The odds of their becoming fully sentient beings is pretty good.

And on a side note, I probably know far more about philosophy than you. Then again, I find it enormously boring and trivial, so who knows.

Argument from potential is worthless.

How so?

[Patridam]

Are you legitimately asking why human life matters? Why we shouldn't murder people willy-nilly?

Abortion =/= murder, try again.

That's a matter for debate in and of itself, but that actually isn't what he's asking. He's asking "why" in direct response to my assertion "human life matters".

[Sanctissima]

Except they will be. The odds of their becoming fully sentient beings is pretty good.

And on a side note, I probably know far more about philosophy than you. Then again, I find it enormously boring and trivial, so who knows.

Argument from potential is worthless.

Potential has quite a deal of worth.

Why do you think people bother living? If potential was utterly meaningless, the human species would have committed mass suicide by now.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Abortion =/= murder, try again.

That's a matter for debate in and of itself, but that actually isn't what he's asking. He's asking "why" in direct response to my assertion "human life matters".

Well, no it's not. By definition it's not and anyone that disagrees is just wrong.

I would have to agree with the question of "why" though, I'm interested in an answer.