Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Tekeristan]

That doesn't always happen.
Condoms and other methods of birth control can fail.
People get drunk as well, and they aren't themselves when they're drunk.

Don't drink and don't have sex. Before you bring up rape, I will let you know I do believe in exceptions.

Ah yes, everyone plans to get laid when they go out to bars.
No, that was sarcasm.

You can't expect people to be 100% rational all the time, if they where I don't think abortion would be an issue we'd have to talk about today wouldn't it?

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

That doesn't always happen.
Condoms and other methods of birth control can fail.
People get drunk as well, and they aren't themselves when they're drunk.

Don't drink and don't have sex. Before you bring up rape, I will let you know I do believe in exceptions.

Your not valuing a person's life over a woman with this, your just limiting the abilities of drinking and justifying rape.

[Patridam]

I am all about granting the maximum of personal freedoms to people, so long as exercising those freedoms don't hurt and/or impede on the freedoms of others.

In this case, it's a battle between the right of self-determination for the woman and the right of the fetus to live. I think the right to live trumps the woman's right over her body, so I am pro-life. This excludes scenarios where the life of the woman is reasonably threatened, because that is a right-to-live vs. a right-to-live battle in which case the woman's right to live trumps the fetus's. I also likely would lean towards the ability to abort in a rape scenario, however I'd ideally encourage the woman to have the child and give it up for adoption.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

I am all about granting the maximum of personal freedoms to people, so long as exercising those freedoms don't hurt and/or impede on the freedoms of others.

In this case, it's a battle between the right of self-determination for the woman and the right of the fetus to live. I think the right to live trumps the woman's right over her body, so I am pro-life. This excludes scenarios where the life of the woman is reasonably threatened, because that is a right-to-live vs. a right-to-live battle in which case the woman's right to live trumps the fetus's. I also likely would lean towards the ability to abort in a rape scenario, however I'd ideally encourage the woman to have the child and give it up for adoption.

Adoption isn't a way to get rid of a baby

[Sanctissima]

I am all about granting the maximum of personal freedoms to people, so long as exercising those freedoms don't hurt and/or impede on the freedoms of others.

In this case, it's a battle between the right of self-determination for the woman and the right of the fetus to live. I think the right to live trumps the woman's right over her body, so I am pro-life. This excludes scenarios where the life of the woman is reasonably threatened, because that is a right-to-live vs. a right-to-live battle in which case the woman's right to live trumps the fetus's. I also likely would lean towards the ability to abort in a rape scenario, however I'd ideally encourage the woman to have the child and give it up for adoption.

Adoption isn't a way to get rid of a baby

It isn't ideal, but it is an option.

In fact, it's a far better one than simply killing the fetus before it even becomes a sentient being.

[Patridam]

I am all about granting the maximum of personal freedoms to people, so long as exercising those freedoms don't hurt and/or impede on the freedoms of others.

In this case, it's a battle between the right of self-determination for the woman and the right of the fetus to live. I think the right to live trumps the woman's right over her body, so I am pro-life. This excludes scenarios where the life of the woman is reasonably threatened, because that is a right-to-live vs. a right-to-live battle in which case the woman's right to live trumps the fetus's. I also likely would lean towards the ability to abort in a rape scenario, however I'd ideally encourage the woman to have the child and give it up for adoption.

Adoption isn't a way to get rid of a baby

Some women wouldn't be able to raise a child of rape, which I can understand. Giving it up for adoption is a better choice than a.) aborting it or b.) raising it with the constant association of the child with your rapist and thus be unable to properly nurture it.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Adoption isn't a way to get rid of a baby

It isn't ideal, but it is an option.

In fact, it's a far better one than simply killing the fetus before it even becomes a sentient being.

Not really, unless you want to put a child to go through a system where they might not even get adopted for the long while.

[Patridam]

It isn't ideal, but it is an option.

In fact, it's a far better one than simply killing the fetus before it even becomes a sentient being.

Not really, unless you want to put a child to go through a system where they might not even get adopted for the long while.

The foster care system is not perfect for sure, but it's not a 'fate worse than death' as you are literally arguing.

[Sanctissima]

It isn't ideal, but it is an option.

In fact, it's a far better one than simply killing the fetus before it even becomes a sentient being.

Not really, unless you want to put a child to go through a system where they might not even get adopted for the long while.

Still better than being killed.

Personally, I'd pick a life of probable hardship over a life never lived.

[The Alma Mater]

Not really, unless you want to put a child to go through a system where they might not even get adopted for the long while.

Still better than being killed.

Personally, I'd pick a life of probable hardship over a life never lived.

How exactly do you know that ?

[Sanctissima]

Still better than being killed.

Personally, I'd pick a life of probable hardship over a life never lived.

How exactly do you know that ?

Simple deduction.

Most people, unless they're stage-4 cancer patients, would choose to live over dying. Much as I would do the same, I happen to enjoy life.

[Liberusy]

I am all about granting the maximum of personal freedoms to people, so long as exercising those freedoms don't hurt and/or impede on the freedoms of others.

In this case, it's a battle between the right of self-determination for the woman and the right of the fetus to live. I think the right to live trumps the woman's right over her body, so I am pro-life. This excludes scenarios where the life of the woman is reasonably threatened, because that is a right-to-live vs. a right-to-live battle in which case the woman's right to live trumps the fetus's. I also likely would lean towards the ability to abort in a rape scenario, however I'd ideally encourage the woman to have the child and give it up for adoption.

Well said.

[The Alma Mater]

How exactly do you know that ?

Simple deduction.

Most people, unless they're stage-4 cancer patients, would choose to live over dying. Much as I would do the same, I happen to enjoy life.

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

[Patridam]

Still better than being killed.

Personally, I'd pick a life of probable hardship over a life never lived.

How exactly do you know that ?

The implication that death is preferable to an unpleasant life is a step on the slippery slope that ends in killing all of the poor.

And that's assuming the foster care/adoptive life is bad, which it is often not.

<snip of myself>
Well said.

Thank you. May I say you have good taste in presidential candidates.

[The Alma Mater]

How exactly do you know that ?

The implication that death is preferable to an unpleasant life is a step on the slippery slope that ends in killing all of the poor.

Again: non-existence. Not death. A big, BIG difference.

[Patridam]

The implication that death is preferable to an unpleasant life is a step on the slippery slope that ends in killing all of the poor.

Again: non-existence. Not death. A big, BIG difference.

For those that believe life begins at conception (myself included), there is no difference whatsoever.

[Sanctissima]

Simple deduction.

Most people, unless they're stage-4 cancer patients, would choose to live over dying. Much as I would do the same, I happen to enjoy life.

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

The same circumstance applies.

Look at it this way, if hypothetically speaking there was an afterlife, and each person could choose whether or not they wanted to go there (the alternative being total death and subsequent non-existence), the likely deduction is that most people would choose to go to the afterlife. Just like most fetuses (if they were fully sentient beings) would choose to live rather than never exist as human beings.

[The Alma Mater]

Again: non-existence. Not death. A big, BIG difference.

For those that believe life begins at conception (myself included), there is no difference whatsoever.

Oh, I believe life begins even earlier - at fertilisation.
Of course, the mere fact of life is unimportant. It is feelings, thoughts and experiences that matter.

[Pragia]

Simple deduction.

Most people, unless they're stage-4 cancer patients, would choose to live over dying. Much as I would do the same, I happen to enjoy life.

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

Fun fact, fetal cells are alive.

[The Alma Mater]

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

The same circumstance applies.

Look at it this way, if hypothetically speaking there was an afterlife, and each person could choose whether or not they wanted to go there (the alternative being total death and subsequent non-existence), the likely deduction is that most people would choose to go to the afterlife. Just like most fetuses (if they were fully sentient beings) would choose to live rather than never exist as human beings.

Yes. But they aren't, aren't they ? And that is where your argument completely and utterly breaks down.
Basic philosophy. Read about it sometime

[Patridam]

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

The same circumstance applies.

Look at it this way, if hypothetically speaking there was an afterlife, and each person could choose whether or not they wanted to go there (the alternative being total death and subsequent non-existence), the likely deduction is that most people would choose to go to the afterlife. Just like most fetuses (if they were fully sentient beings) would choose to live rather than never exist as human beings.

Agreed. While we cannot actually ask fetuses what they'd like at that moment in time, no adult would choose to have been aborted and never existed.

[Miletos]

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

Fun fact, fetal cells are alive.

So's my skin. It doesn't mean that my skin is a life or that it is "living" and experiencing the world in the same way as, say, a toddler.

[Arach-Naga Combine]

But that is different. We are talking about non-existence vs living - not dying vs living.

Fun fact, fetal cells are alive.

Irrelevant. Fun fact analogy: cancer cells are alive.

It doesn't matter if it's alive, has a heartbeat, or can talk. You cannot force a woman to carry a fetus.

[Patridam]

The same circumstance applies.

Look at it this way, if hypothetically speaking there was an afterlife, and each person could choose whether or not they wanted to go there (the alternative being total death and subsequent non-existence), the likely deduction is that most people would choose to go to the afterlife. Just like most fetuses (if they were fully sentient beings) would choose to live rather than never exist as human beings.

Yes. But they aren't, aren't they ? And that is where your argument completely and utterly breaks down.
Basic philosophy. Read about it sometime

Fetuses are not fully sentient in the same way a recently born baby isn't fully sentient. I hope your basic philosophy doesn't condone murdering recently-born babies.

[Pragia]

Fun fact, fetal cells are alive.

Irrelevant. Fun fact analogy: cancer cells are alive.

It doesn't matter if it's alive, has a heartbeat, or can talk. You cannot force a woman to carry a fetus.

It's also entirely false to say a fetus is not alive.