Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Grave_n_idle]

Yeah, it's arbitrary, like any law. The "When does life begin?" debate will never end and I consider the most safe and healthy position to protect unborn babies as much as we can...

Surely, the most safe and healthy position is to protect the 'mothers' as much as we can?

I don'think there's anything reasonable about prioritising a foetus above the woman carrying it.

[Dyakovo]

Most women have no idea they are pregnant until after that time.

It's not meant to be a birth control option, it's just for dealing with accidents and rape without going full the "its just a bunch of cells" road.

Yes, it's meant for accidents like "I'm pregnant and don't wish to be"....

[Maoist Britain]

Given how the world is over-populated, it's a good idea. Also, if a woman is raped or cannot actually afford a child, she should abort it.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

You want the right to kill children. There it goes back at you, how does it feel?

No person has the right to use another person's body against their will. Also noted your 'Pregnancy is punishment' line earlier, as if the woman consented to sex specifically to have sex, and is avoiding the consequences of the action.

As stated several pages before you started posting here, and at least twenty times in this thread: while almost all children are caused by sexual intercourse, having children is not the only reason for having sex (look up Bonobos). If an unwanted pregnancy occurs, the woman should be able to terminate it with a minimum of fuss and judgement.

Then it should be extended, am I Machiavelli or something? As I said:



Kisses

How about before the first 24 weeks, when the fetus' ongoing existence is wholly an imposition upon the rights of the woman within which it resides?

That'd be swell!

Then past that, induced labor, since technically fetuses are viable at that time.
I would get behind that.

[Washington Resistance Army]

If you're picking arbitrary points in which to steal my bodily autonomy, make sure they make some sense or stand up for it.

You want the right to kill children. There it goes back at you, how does it feel?

A fetus =/= a child, you should probably head on back to school.

[Godular]

No person has the right to use another person's body against their will. Also noted your 'Pregnancy is punishment' line earlier, as if the woman consented to sex specifically to have sex, and is avoiding the consequences of the action.

As stated several pages before you started posting here, and at least twenty times in this thread: while almost all children are caused by sexual intercourse, having children is not the only reason for having sex (look up Bonobos). If an unwanted pregnancy occurs, the woman should be able to terminate it with a minimum of fuss and judgement.



How about before the first 24 weeks, when the fetus' ongoing existence is wholly an imposition upon the rights of the woman within which it resides?

That'd be swell!

Then past that, induced labor, since technically fetuses are viable at that time.
I would get behind that.

Thought about that after I posted, decided 'ah what the hell, they'll fill in the blank'.

So thanks fer that.

[Geilinor]

Prior to missing her period, women don't have a great option in pregnancy tests because her HCG levels are too low to detect reliably, and the fact that you dispute this shows that you don't have firm grasp of how pregnancy works. And if you say the abortion has to occur BEFORE 3 weeks, you are literally saying she has to make an appointment for an abortion prior to implantation. Women who desire them acquire an abortion as soon as they are able. No woman just sits on it and waits.

Well, implantation happens in 10-20 days, most women would be able to find out before the end of 3 weeks.

Also, don't forget this is a pro-life position. To protect the lives of the unborn children, not some universal right to abortion. If the mother doesn't want the baby, but the pregnancy is still at such an early stage, then ok, but otherwise not.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, like any law. The "When does life begin?" debate will never end and I consider the most safe and healthy position to protect unborn babies as much as we can, without pretending we don't have abortion as a choice for the lesser evil in some special cases and that chosing it doesn't make the doctors or the mother murderers.

The Captain Obvious answer: Life is a process and does not begin at any one point. Life is a circle.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Well, implantation happens in 10-20 days, most women would be able to find out before the end of 3 weeks.

Also, don't forget this is a pro-life position. To protect the lives of the unborn children, not some universal right to abortion. If the mother doesn't want the baby, but the pregnancy is still at such an early stage, then ok, but otherwise not.

Yeah, it's arbitrary, like any law. The "When does life begin?" debate will never end and I consider the most safe and healthy position to protect unborn babies as much as we can, without pretending we don't have abortion as a choice for the lesser evil in some special cases and that chosing it doesn't make the doctors or the mother murderers.

The Captain Obvious answer: Life is a process and does not begin at any one point. Life is a circle.

[The Alma Mater]

If you're picking arbitrary points in which to steal my bodily autonomy, make sure they make some sense or stand up for it.

You want the right to kill children. There it goes back at you, how does it feel?

Technically, they want the right to not be forced to keep "a child" alive to the detriment of their own bodily autonomy.
Similar as to how you can refuse to be hooked up and serve as a "bloodbag" for other people; despite them dying without that hookup.

[Mattantia]

Generally, I'm pro-life, but if pregnancy was the cause of rape or assault, then I'd say you abort it.

[Ardavia]

Generally, I'm pro-life, but if pregnancy was the cause of rape or assault, then I'd say you abort it.

And what makes the fetus conceived by rape different from the fetus conceived by consensual sex?

[Grave_n_idle]

Generally, I'm pro-life, but if pregnancy was the cause of rape or assault, then I'd say you abort it.

How is that 'pro-life'?

You draw the line at whether or not the mother made the choice to engage in the sexual activity.

You are literally anti-choice.

[Dyakovo]

No, since this little side discussion was about what gets aborted, the fact that an abortion aborts the pregnancy not the foetus or the birth is 100% relevant.

In the larger scheme of things tho, what part of the argument is affected? Does it mystically destroy the woman's right to control her own body if we decide that abortion terminates a pregnancy or the typical end product of said pregnancy?

Serious question.

In the larger scheme of things it matters because if you're going to hold an opinion on whether or not something should be legal, you should actually know what that thing is.

[Kelinfort]

Pro choice.

Merely clarifying that for the tenth time so hopefully someone calls me a baby killer. I feed on their rage.

[Dyakovo]

Pro choice.

Merely clarifying that for the tenth time so hopefully someone calls me a baby killer. I feed on their rage.

BABY KILLER!

[Kelinfort]

Pro choice.

Merely clarifying that for the tenth time so hopefully someone calls me a baby killer. I feed on their rage.

BABY KILLER!

We both know you're not being serious.

I prefer my pro life tears to be organic.

[The Princes of the Universe]

BABY KILLER!

We both know you're not being serious.
I prefer my pro life tears to be organic.

BabY kIllEr!1!!

[Godular]

Pro choice.

Merely clarifying that for the tenth time so hopefully someone calls me a baby killer. I feed on their rage.

I just wish they'd use consistent logic... but if they did that they would be less likely to take the stance they do...

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Pro choice.

Merely clarifying that for the tenth time so hopefully someone calls me a baby killer. I feed on their rage.

I just wish they'd use consistent logic... but if they did that they would be less likely to take the stance they do...

sick burn brah

[USS Monitor]

Pro choice.

Merely clarifying that for the tenth time so hopefully someone calls me a baby killer. I feed on their rage.

I prefer "damn Yankee" when I'm looking for my recommended daily intake of other people's impotent rage, but "baby killer" is OK too.

[The Klishi Islands]

I am pro-life. Most people would consider me pro-choice. And I hate the two terms. By these, I mean I against killing living fetuses. Thing is, I believe life begins at the same time it ends- when regular EEG signals are detectable from the brain (or, in the case of death, when they cease). This can happen from 19-25 weeks IIRC, so around the transition from second to third trimester. Before EEG signals are detected, abortion should be legal, and afterwards, the fetus is alive and should be illegal.

But seriously, stop framing the debate as "pro-life" and "pro-choice." They're sucky, sucky, false labels.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

I am pro-life. Most people would consider me pro-choice. And I hate the two terms. By these, I mean I against killing living fetuses. Thing is, I believe life begins at the same time it ends- when regular EEG signals are detectable from the brain (or, in the case of death, when they cease). This can happen from 19-25 weeks IIRC, so around the transition from second to third trimester. Before EEG signals are detected, abortion should be legal, and afterwards, the fetus is alive and should be illegal.

But seriously, stop framing the debate as "pro-life" and "pro-choice." They're sucky, sucky, false labels.

Hey, once the other side claimed "pro-life", what were we supposed to do? Just accept the title of "anti-life"? We're socially liberal, not socially Darkseid.

[Stellonia]

I personally believe that life begins when the child's (or fetus') heart starts to beat, and ends when a person's heart ceases to beat.

[Dyakovo]

I am pro-life. Most people would consider me pro-choice. And I hate the two terms. By these, I mean I against killing living fetuses. Thing is, I believe life begins at the same time it ends- when regular EEG signals are detectable from the brain (or, in the case of death, when they cease). This can happen from 19-25 weeks IIRC, so around the transition from second to third trimester. Before EEG signals are detected, abortion should be legal, and afterwards, the fetus is alive and should be illegal.

But seriously, stop framing the debate as "pro-life" and "pro-choice." They're sucky, sucky, false labels.

Hey, once the other side claimed "pro-life", what were we supposed to do? Just accept the title of "anti-life"? We're socially liberal, not socially Darkseid.

Not to mention the fact that "pro-choice" actually is accurate...

[Wallenburg]

I personally believe that life begins when the child's (or fetus') heart starts to beat, and ends when a person's heart ceases to beat.

So if someone has a heart attack, they have already died?