Abortion: Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Mavorpen]

You are worng. Property and money are natural parts of societies and predates modern government and states. Even in the times when he lived as tribes every member owned stuff and everybody was trading with each other.

I would also love to point you Hegels description and theory of modern day states. There are three parts: the spehre of government, the civil society (in which free man create their resources by market competition) and the spehre of family where private property is a holliness. The family and civil society predates to the government. You can have the two without government intervention



Uh, yes. Taxes are nothing more than bills that we receive from government for its service. Since I do not want to pay to anybody welfare, it is not the serivce that I want.

So what I seem to be getting out of all this is that in order for everybody to be treated equally, we should treat them unequally.

Is anybody else getting that?

Especially if they're not white.

[Wallenburg]

No, property and money are a result of the government protection and distribution of currency respectively.

You are worng. Property and money are natural parts of societies and predates modern government and states. Even in the times when he lived as tribes every member owned stuff and everybody was trading with each other.

I would also love to point you Hegels description and theory of modern day states. There are three parts: the spehre of government, the civil society (in which free man create their resources by market competition) and the spehre of family where private property is a holliness. The family and civil society predates to the government. You can have the two without government intervention

Uh, no. People have a right to their own bodies. People don't have the right to evade taxes.

Uh, yes. Taxes are nothing more than bills that we receive from government for its service. Since I do not want to pay to anybody welfare, it is not the serivce that I want.

Criminal action, sir, is not ideal.

[Dortmundia]

If you and I can do the same, does that work for you?

Deal I apologize to you and wallenburg and the floating Island. Now can you apologize to me about your claims on my writing and debate skills. This is afterall a game,something i do for fun.

I would suggest you to shows a bit pride.

[Neutraligon]

Every time you give taxes to the government. Don't like that? Leave the country. Have luck finding a better place to be.

Well, yes ok and in that case abortion should also not be legalised. If a womans wants to perform it than let her go to Somalia.

No since poor women are unable to do that. Also Somalia has terrible medical care.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

If you and I can do the same, does that work for you?

Deal I apologize to you and wallenburg and the floating Island. Now can you apologize to me about your claims on my writing and debate skills. This is afterall a game,something i do for fun.

Okay, I think we need to clear up what "clean slate" means. It doesn't mean "I'll start being nice and you will apologize for being rude earlier." It means "I'll start being nice and forgive you for anything I think you did that was rude earlier." That's the whole point. You don't clean something except for one part, and you can't have a clean slate except for one grudge.

If you begin treating us with respect, you won't see any more snark from me. That's more than I should have to commit, in my opinion, but I'm willing to do it as a show of good faith.

[Nilla Wayfarers]

If you and I can do the same, does that work for you?

Deal I apologize to you and wallenburg and the floating Island. Now can you apologize to me about your claims on my writing and debate skills. This is afterall a game,something i do for fun.

If you will debate well, I will respect that and you. That is all I can promise. I cannot take back what else I have said without you doing anything to show I am wrong about it. I'm sorry if that's not what you want, but I won't give more.

Now, if you would like to continue with the abortion debate, continue.

If not, I will ignore you.

Sorry again.

-Nilla

[The Empire of Pretantia]

No, property and money are a result of the government protection and distribution of currency respectively.

You are worng. Property and money are natural parts of societies and predates modern government and states. Even in the times when he lived as tribes every member owned stuff and everybody was trading with each other.

I would also love to point you Hegels description and theory of modern day states. There are three parts: the spehre of government, the civil society (in which free man create their resources by market competition) and the spehre of family where private property is a holliness. The family and civil society predates to the government. You can have the two without government intervention

Good for that, it doesn't mean shit though, since we're talking about abortion.

[Redsection]

Deal I apologize to you and wallenburg and the floating Island. Now can you apologize to me about your claims on my writing and debate skills. This is afterall a game,something i do for fun.

I do not apologize for calling out your arguments as half-assed. However, if you really do intend to debate well with us, then you will not only see an apology but a serious extension of my respect for you as a player and a nation.

Fine i will be better in debating with you. Although it won't be senator quality it will be better than it is now.

[Dortmundia]

Criminal action, sir, is not ideal.

Well I get that the pro-life system is applied when we all pay taxes to the government. If we all agree on this my point is that the same should be applied to woman and not let them have abortion. It is because of consistency and equality in from on law.

[Nilla Wayfarers]

Every time you give taxes to the government. Don't like that? Leave the country. Have luck finding a better place to be.

Well, yes ok and in that case abortion should also not be legalised.

Sorry, I guess I missed something... What do taxes have to do with abortion?

If a womans wants to perform it than let her go to Somalia.

She'll probably end up dying in the procedure. It's Somalia. Ever heard of any good medical care in Somalia?

[Redsection]

Deal I apologize to you and wallenburg and the floating Island. Now can you apologize to me about your claims on my writing and debate skills. This is afterall a game,something i do for fun.

I do not apologize for calling out your arguments as half-assed. However, if you really do intend to debate well with us, then you will not only see an apology but a serious extension of my respect for you as a player and a nation.

Fine i will be better in debating with you. Although it won't be senator quality it will be better than it is now.

[Mysterious Stranger 2]

One of the best ways to be pro-life is to be pro-choice, and one of the best ways to be pro-choice is by addressing the larger systemic reasons that women lose control over whether or not they have children. The whole debate frequently collapses into a choice between treating the symptoms and criminalizing the symptoms.

[Wallenburg]

Criminal action, sir, is not ideal.

Well I get that the pro-life system is applied when we all pay taxes to the government. If we all agree on this my point is that the same should be applied to woman and not let them have abortion. It is because of consistency and equality in from on law.

I don't agree on that. I have no idea why you are applying taxes to abortion. I'm reporting you for threadjacking. Sorry.

[Mavorpen]

Well I get that the pro-life system is applied when we all pay taxes to the government. If we all agree on this my point is that the same should be applied to woman and not let them have abortion. It is because of consistency and equality in from on law.

I don't agree on that. I have no idea why you are applying taxes to abortion. I'm reporting you for threadjacking. Sorry.

People will ALWAYS find an excuse to make racist rants.

[Sun Wukong]

Every nucleic cell in my body has my same genetics. They're just not fully formed.

They don't get rights.

It's funny you quote this but not my more updated post i made later.

I respond to the post I see. I'm not going to spend my time searching through your posts in a futile search for sense.

[Dortmundia]

Well I get that the pro-life system is applied when we all pay taxes to the government. If we all agree on this my point is that the same should be applied to woman and not let them have abortion. It is because of consistency and equality in from on law.

I don't agree on that. I have no idea why you are applying taxes to abortion. I'm reporting you for threadjacking. Sorry.

That is not threadjack. It is just you do not or do not want to understand my point. You seem to losing the debate so in that I case I shall report you for threating with a mod.

Sorry, I guess I missed something... What do taxes have to do with abortion?

Since government is allowed to use as much reources of its citizens as it wants, also it appling pro-life standards. The same should be applies to woman and not leting them to have abortion. It is because equality in front of law.

She'll probably end up dying in the procedure. It's Somalia. Ever heard of any good medical care in Somalia?

It is not different when a poster said to me to go there if I do not want pay tax in the US.

[Sun Wukong]

I think he has no idea what he's talking about and is generally a moron. My fingernail is also human, is it a person now?

Yes but it's part of you,so I daresay you can clip away your nails but your not killing it. Also common since tells people have no emotion for simple cells unable of anything. A fetus however has potential,it's anothers life,in a religious view a new soul is made,also a your claim on eggs not being chickens is not relevant. The human race is farmore complex than a simple minded bird. I also ask you what in his sayings are stupid.

My religion says there is no such thing as a soul. Don't presume to speak for everyone.

But your point is moot. Every nucleic cell in your body has the potential to be a person. Your posts do not lend support to your proposal that humans are more complex then simple minded birds.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Yes but it's part of you,so I daresay you can clip away your nails but your not killing it. Also common since tells people have no emotion for simple cells unable of anything. A fetus however has potential,it's anothers life,in a religious view a new soul is made,also a your claim on eggs not being chickens is not relevant. The human race is farmore complex than a simple minded bird. I also ask you what in his sayings are stupid.

My religion says there is no such thing as a soul. Don't presume to speak for everyone.

But your point is moot. Every nucleic cell in your body has the potential to be a person. Your posts do not lend support to your proposal that humans are more complex then simple minded birds.

The fact we can make posts, however, provides support for the idea we are more complex then birds though.

What that has to do with abortion though is beyond me.

[Wallenburg]

If, in the unlikely chance I die, tell Redsection that I apologize for judging him so harshly.

[Godular]

I don't agree on that. I have no idea why you are applying taxes to abortion. I'm reporting you for threadjacking. Sorry.

That is not threadjack. It is just you do not or do not want to understand my point.

Your point is poorly thought out. More on that later.

You seem to losing the debate so in that I case I shall report you for threating with a mod.

Telling someone they are reporting them, then actually doing it, is not mod-as-weapons.

Sorry, I guess I missed something... What do taxes have to do with abortion?

Since government is allowed to use as much reources of its citizens as it wants, also it appling pro-life standards. The same should be applies to woman and not leting them to have abortion. It is because equality in front of law.

Your argument is killed in one shot with the following statement: Everybody who pays taxes experiences the same allocation of their tax dollars. Even tax dollars from blacks, asian, or hispanic citizens that pay taxes go into funding of social welfare programs, and should you ever have need of such programs they are there for your benefit as well. It is equivalent.

As such, the way your tax money is spent is consistent with the idea of a woman exercising her constitutional rights as an American citizen seen as equal in the eyes of the law. Your argument fails.

[The Archregimancy]

Locked for a review of the last 10 pages or so.

Edit:

I started my review with this:

If you spend your time arguing about abortion on a forum this long, then you don't have a life. Im sure your parents didn't want, or at least wasn't intending to have you born. But they didn't get an abortion

You ain't got no life, you tell people how you like, because you spend money buying out.

Yes, it makes no sense

Please, get a life. No one wants to argue with you about whether my scenario aids my opinion. Only weak sellouts deny those inexplicably right things i said.

You were fine right up until you started attacking the poster, instead of their argument.

*** The Siverian Republic, warned for flaming. ***

Unfortunately, the Siverian Republic didn't seem to learn the lesson.


Now, this first mild one might be excused on the basis that it came hot on the heels of the formal warning, which might not have been noticed before the post was made. After all, an apology was offered less than 20 minutes after the warning was issued, and sometimes debate moves quickly here.

Personal insult noted once again.

Foe'ing. You refuse to understand when it is explained why your arguments fail. You have already stated that you will refuse to listen to reason.

I refuse to listen to weak folks sitting in their parents basement with an argument that can not help their side win. Many people that disagree with me made more sense than you.

Unfortunately, we then went back into flaming:

...Just because you have failed to understand the responses to you does not mean the arguments are bad. The arguments are reasonable and logical responses to claims you have made.

If the chance of actually becoming pregnant from sex is low (and it is) then clearly the purpose of sex is not solely for reproduction.

Ohh hell to the naww That makes me sound so retarted. You on the other hand....
Retard

The above was quickly edited, but not before the original version was quoted by others. As Wallenburg noted, 'editing retrospectively doesn't make your flaming disappear' and subsequent attempts to explain this as accidental posting on a tablet are unconvincing.

I'd often give a 24-hour ban for flaming away shortly after a moderator warning for the same offence. But because this is someone new, the first instance might have come before the first warning, and the second instance was very quickly edited (though not quickly enough), I'll satisfy myself with a *** second warning for flaming in the hope this gets the message across. ***



Next:

Ok i parlay. Oh and this is a game not real life,so please cool those jets I think i'm the only one on this site who joins actual political debate clubs.

mock away, at least i will present to the mayor of chattanooga and senator of TN sometime this year. Once i do so i will gladly send you a pic.WAnt some of my presentations and paper's i've written. I will be glad to cleanse your disbeleif.

Not even remotely actionable; but just a little sad and deluded about academic qualifications.



And finally....

Having a Ph.D doesn't make you a genius in all fields.

But... but... but....

Making a mod's eyes well up with bitter tears of disillusionment isn't actionable - but is it necessarily wise?

Next you'll be telling me that there's no Easter Bunny.


I'll now unlock the thread.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, it's not.

Humans are the only species that EVER has sex for the purpose of propagation, and almost never does so.

Further, sex almost never results in fertilisation.

Third, most fertilisations spontaneously abort.

Ergo - sex is not about propagation.

I am confused by your first statement. How do animals reproduce?

Accidentally.

[Dyakovo]

what do you think of alan keyes stance on abortion. ( guy on my flag.)

[Keyes offered] a civics lesson to fifth graders at a NH school today. “If I were to lose my mind right now and pick one of you up and bash your head against the floor and kill you, would that be right?”
A chorus of “No.”
“It’s wrong to kill children, isn’t it? At what age is it right to kill children? Think it was OK to kill you when you were 6?,” Keyes asked one child. The child shook his head no.
“Think it was OK to kill you when you were 6 months? You sure? Because we live in a country right now where according to some of our courts and some of our politicians, it is OK,“ Keyes said.
”Our rights come from God. We human beings don’t have the right to take away that right from any human being, including the human beings who haven’t quite got here yet. Because we have denied freedom to children in the womb who haven’t yet gotten to this world, freedom will be denied to you and to your brothers and sisters and to your children.“

Source: Boston globe.


This quote brings up a good view,what make a fetus any different than a younger human child.The fetus and child are both living beings,they are made from the same mixture,just like every one else.just because one is not fully developed does not mean that their not human,especially if we as people know that they will grow up and mature to full human beings. I also have another quote from keyes.

Q: Doesn’t your pro-life stance conflict with your support of the death penaty?
KEYES: It doesn’t conflict at all. Abortion and capital punishment are at different level of moral concern.

OBAMA: It’s unfortunate that with the death penalty Mr. Keyes respects that people may have a different point of view but with the issue of abortion he has labeled people everything as terrorists to slaveholders to being consistent with Nazism for holding an opposing point of view.

KEYES: Mr. Obama has read the newspapers too much. I don’t call people names. I make arguments. And in point of fact, [the pro-choice stance] is the slaveholder’s position. Slaveholders took the view that black people were not developed enough to be treated as human beings and therefore can be bought and sold like animals. People looking at the babe in the womb take the view that it is not developed enough to be treated as a human being and therefore can be killed at will.

( provided via : Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes )

I ask this , is keyes not correct. It sounds correct and it makes a good point on the prochoice movement which thinks a fetus is a lesser being,simply because it has not finished developing.

( sorry for any grammar mistakes.)

Keyes is an idiot who has no understanding of human development.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

what do you think of alan keyes stance on abortion. ( guy on my flag.)

[Keyes offered] a civics lesson to fifth graders at a NH school today. “If I were to lose my mind right now and pick one of you up and bash your head against the floor and kill you, would that be right?”
A chorus of “No.”
“It’s wrong to kill children, isn’t it? At what age is it right to kill children? Think it was OK to kill you when you were 6?,” Keyes asked one child. The child shook his head no.
“Think it was OK to kill you when you were 6 months? You sure? Because we live in a country right now where according to some of our courts and some of our politicians, it is OK,“ Keyes said.
”Our rights come from God. We human beings don’t have the right to take away that right from any human being, including the human beings who haven’t quite got here yet. Because we have denied freedom to children in the womb who haven’t yet gotten to this world, freedom will be denied to you and to your brothers and sisters and to your children.“

Source: Boston globe.


This quote brings up a good view,what make a fetus any different than a younger human child.The fetus and child are both living beings,they are made from the same mixture,just like every one else.just because one is not fully developed does not mean that their not human,especially if we as people know that they will grow up and mature to full human beings. I also have another quote from keyes.

Q: Doesn’t your pro-life stance conflict with your support of the death penaty?
KEYES: It doesn’t conflict at all. Abortion and capital punishment are at different level of moral concern.

OBAMA: It’s unfortunate that with the death penalty Mr. Keyes respects that people may have a different point of view but with the issue of abortion he has labeled people everything as terrorists to slaveholders to being consistent with Nazism for holding an opposing point of view.

KEYES: Mr. Obama has read the newspapers too much. I don’t call people names. I make arguments. And in point of fact, [the pro-choice stance] is the slaveholder’s position. Slaveholders took the view that black people were not developed enough to be treated as human beings and therefore can be bought and sold like animals. People looking at the babe in the womb take the view that it is not developed enough to be treated as a human being and therefore can be killed at will.

( provided via : Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes )

I ask this , is keyes not correct. It sounds correct and it makes a good point on the prochoice movement which thinks a fetus is a lesser being,simply because it has not finished developing.

( sorry for any grammar mistakes.)

His divine theory of rights is complete and utter horseshit.

If rights are conferred by God, and thus inalienable; then that would mean we cannot condone the death penalty.

The fact that he does presents the one fatal flaw in his argument: that if he insists that you can take a life via capital punishment then that means that your rights don't come from the divine, it comes from your valuation of another person's rights against your own.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

So your debate skills in real life are superb, it's only in text format where you have time to pull up primary sources and carefully consider your phrasing that you flounder. Seems legit.

mock away, at least i will present to the mayor of chattanooga and senator of TN sometime this year. Once i do so i will gladly send you a pic.WAnt some of my presentations and paper's i've written. I will be glad to cleanse your disbeleif.

Trust me, we don't really care - and that's coming from a 'Noogan.

I don't agree on that. I have no idea why you are applying taxes to abortion. I'm reporting you for threadjacking. Sorry.

That is not threadjack. It is just you do not or do not want to understand my point. You seem to losing the debate so in that I case I shall report you for threating with a mod.

Sorry, I guess I missed something... What do taxes have to do with abortion?

Since government is allowed to use as much reources of its citizens as it wants, also it appling pro-life standards. The same should be applies to woman and not leting them to have abortion. It is because equality in front of law.

She'll probably end up dying in the procedure. It's Somalia. Ever heard of any good medical care in Somalia?

It is not different when a poster said to me to go there if I do not want pay tax in the US.

No, taxes do not mean you get to strip women of their rights.