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Life of a Commoner in an anarchist society

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Skeckoa
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Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Skeckoa » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:48 pm

Solaray wrote:
Skeckoa wrote: How do you believe the state came to be the rightful owner of all the land?
By claiming it and holding it, I suppose.
Well, here. How does someone claim ownership? I say it is homesteading and trade (but that is for another thread).

The state claimed it, brought armies, and forced the people on that land into subjugation. Any argument saying that the state legit owns all the land will boil down to a "Might makes right" kind of argument.
Ripoll wrote:We've already established taxes are not theft, Eminent Domain isn't theft because you get immediate compensation, conscription only occurs when vital to the security of a state which typically was only common practice in the world wars.
no, we have deffy not established that taxes are not theft.
Last edited by Skeckoa on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ripoll
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Postby Ripoll » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:48 pm

Lockean Georgeville wrote:
Ripoll wrote:
Huh...sounds like citizenship.....

Yeah, so? There can't be citizenship under anarchism?


There can't be, but it sure as hell acts the same way. Which brings me to my final point, why the hell would you want to revert all the porgress humanity has made to establish a similar but crappier system? Need I not remind you we are at the most peaceful point in World History since Humans have been a thing? The most economically prosperous? It's no coincidence our population is soaring when a few centuries ago it was stagnant for centuries at a time.

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Genivaria
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:49 pm

Sibirsky wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Anarchists: How would your anarchy be any different from Somalia? People are making and enforcing their own laws. Now, these laws usually involve beheadings, but isn't no state what you want?

Somalia is a failed state.

Somalia has a democratic government now actually and are dealing with their insurgents.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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Havenburgh
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Postby Havenburgh » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:49 pm

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Lockean Georgeville wrote:What about intentional communities? Or municipalities? Or directly-democratic confederations?

directly-democratic confederations are still states - no matter how loose

Im fine with direct democracy. I rp with a direct democracy.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:49 pm

Skeckoa wrote:Well, here. How does someone claim ownership? I say it is homesteading and trade (but that is for another thread).

The state claimed it, brought armies, and forced the people on that land into subjugation. Any argument saying that the state legit owns all the land will boil down to a "Might makes right" kind of argument.

Well, force is the sole preserve of the masses.
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Democratic Koyro
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Postby Democratic Koyro » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:50 pm

Anarkhist Kyrylashka wrote:
Democratic Koyro wrote:
The State cannot commit an act of Terrorism.

This is essentially saying, "I have no idea what the fuck state-terrorism is." Jesus fucking christ.


The State cannot commit an act of terrorism. The State cannot commit a crime. Individuals within the State can.

So-called State terrorism is where the State sponsors terrorism. it does not actually commit it. There is no such thing as State Terrorism.
Last edited by Democratic Koyro on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Confederacy of Nationalism
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Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:50 pm

Merizoc wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:* Saying the US Army is as bad as terrorists.

I hope you grow out it before long.

Not really scary, it's just realpolitik.

:rofl:
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a reminder that the U.S. government is in-fact more destructive than so-called "terrorists"
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Lockean Georgeville
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Postby Lockean Georgeville » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:50 pm

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Lockean Georgeville wrote:What about intentional communities? Or municipalities? Or directly-democratic confederations?

directly-democratic confederations are still states - no matter how loose

No... A directly-democratic government is established and controlled voluntarily. A State is a government that uses force.
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Anarkhist Kyrylashka
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Founded: Dec 07, 2014
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Postby Anarkhist Kyrylashka » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:50 pm

The Slavians wrote:
Anarkhist Kyrylashka wrote:Just because you want something to be, does not make it so.

You should take your advice. ;)

Anarchism won't work.

Aren't you a communist of some sort? or anarchist? I mean, you are in the AAA.
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Estva
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Postby Estva » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:51 pm

New Unsociety wrote:1)Education and the right spirit is key to an anarchist society. Also, with economic equality and lack of greed caused by economic clout, what would be the reason for bloody wars?
Today and in the past, the rulers sent people to die while reaping the benefits. If it is the people themselves that would risk dying for what, a few more while they already have what they need, why fight?

You know "Educating" people about the horrors of war may very well do nothing right? People can want what others have no matter how much they have been educated, and when you will die otherwise even being educated doesn't stop violence.
New Unsociety wrote:2)With today's technology no. Also see confederation, there will be delegates.

With today's technology yes. Getting mandated consensus on everything would nigh impossible, not to mention the security issues with the technology. As for the delegates, that's pretty extremely far from direct democracy.
New Unsociety wrote:3)See the militia part. Also, we're talking about a situation after a world shift, when every country will be anarchist, about let's say the "endgame".

"World shift" you have to explain how to get their in the first place. This utopia is ridiculous if you cannot explain how one can reach it, otherwise it is just fantastical lunacy.

New Unsociety wrote:4)Communes and confederations would trade with each other. Also, yes, i mean that the criterion will not be profit but utility. I'm not against food tech per se.

Except you can't trade over long distances. Where would you get salt if the nearest salt mine is hundreds of miles away? To transport the salt to the local commune, it would past a thousand different communes, with a thousand different taxes and regulations, some of which may just not let you pass at all.
New Unsociety wrote:5)Well, there are enough wackos to do things like in anarchist Catalonia.

Yes and their wacko actions helped end the Republic.
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Lockean Georgeville
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Founded: Jan 23, 2015
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Postby Lockean Georgeville » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:51 pm

Democratic Koyro wrote:
Anarkhist Kyrylashka wrote:This is essentially saying, "I have no idea what the fuck state-terrorism is." Jesus fucking christ.


The State cannot commit an act of terrorism. The State cannot commit a crime. Individuals within the State can.

So-called State terrorism is where the State sponsors terrorism. it does not actually commit it. There is no such thing as State Terrorism.

The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.
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Estva
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Postby Estva » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:52 pm

Lockean Georgeville wrote:
Democratic Koyro wrote:
The State cannot commit an act of terrorism. The State cannot commit a crime. Individuals within the State can.

So-called State terrorism is where the State sponsors terrorism. it does not actually commit it. There is no such thing as State Terrorism.

The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.

Why is it illegitimate?
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Democratic Koyro
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Postby Democratic Koyro » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Lockean Georgeville wrote:
Democratic Koyro wrote:
The State cannot commit an act of terrorism. The State cannot commit a crime. Individuals within the State can.

So-called State terrorism is where the State sponsors terrorism. it does not actually commit it. There is no such thing as State Terrorism.

The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.


Whatever. Even if you think it's illegitimate as you said it has a monopoly on force. So you can't do anything about it. You're just gonna have to deal with it.
Last edited by Democratic Koyro on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Albul
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Postby Albul » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Anarkhist Kyrylashka wrote:
The Slavians wrote:You should take your advice. ;)

Anarchism won't work.

Aren't you a communist of some sort? or anarchist? I mean, you are in the AAA.

The flag mocks communist ideals... what makes you think he is a communist, ffs?
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The Confederacy of Nationalism
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Founded: Sep 05, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Confederacy of Nationalism » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Lockean Georgeville wrote:
The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:directly-democratic confederations are still states - no matter how loose

No... A directly-democratic government is established and controlled voluntarily. A State is a government that uses force.

And? Do the individual soldiers that help establish a state not voluntarily help establish it? Historical direct democracies such as Athens are still states.
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Ainin
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Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ainin » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Ainin wrote:
Is it like a bunch of badly-shaved men with antique pistols travelling the Seven Interstates on an 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser pillaging and plundering truck drivers of their cargo?

Sounds like anarchy.

Nah.

The Interstates would probably have long-fallen into a state of utter disrepair if it was anarchy.
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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Solaray wrote:
Merizoc wrote:Now, as someone who doesn't support violent revolution, I'll say this: Fighting back against a state that's oppressing you is no different than fighting back against a mugger. You didn't initiate violence.

What do you consider "oppression"?

Citizen of what exactly?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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Albul
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Postby Albul » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Democratic Koyro wrote:
Lockean Georgeville wrote:The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.


Whatever. Even if you think it's illegitimate as you said it has a monopoly on force. So you can't do anything about it. You're just gonna have to deal with it.

No, you get the help from another state and start a revolution... unless that state is the US.
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Camelza
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Founded: Mar 04, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Camelza » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:54 pm

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:
Camelza wrote:Of course, anarchist societies demand a high level of political maturity by the populace in order to exist.

Oh, tell me which specific society exhibits a high level of political maturity, I want to know.

A well-educated one and by education I mean social education.
Being a pragmatist, despite I ideologically have libertarian socialist ideals, I compromise with the best possible model at the moment which is social liberalism and progressivism, hoping that one day the majority of the people will be mature enough to abolish state, as they did religion in our days.
Last edited by Camelza on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Democratic Koyro
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Postby Democratic Koyro » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:54 pm

Albul wrote:
Democratic Koyro wrote:
Whatever. Even if you think it's illegitimate as you said it has a monopoly on force. So you can't do anything about it. You're just gonna have to deal with it.

No, you get the help from another state and start a revolution... unless that state is the US.


LOL!

The only way to have your anarchist hellhole is to beg one State to destroy another.
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MERIZoC
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Founded: Dec 05, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:55 pm

Lockean Georgeville wrote:
Democratic Koyro wrote:
The State cannot commit an act of terrorism. The State cannot commit a crime. Individuals within the State can.

So-called State terrorism is where the State sponsors terrorism. it does not actually commit it. There is no such thing as State Terrorism.

The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.

No, the state, by definition, has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Unless that's not what you meant?

….

Ah well. I've got to go. Been good talking to you all.
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Lockean Georgeville
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Founded: Jan 23, 2015
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Postby Lockean Georgeville » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:55 pm

Estva wrote:
Lockean Georgeville wrote:The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.

Why is it illegitimate?

What does it derive it's authority from? Nothing. Now keep in mind, a government CAN have a legitimate, voluntary monopoly on violence. But the State cannot.


Democratic Koyro wrote:
Lockean Georgeville wrote:The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.


Whatever. Even if you think it's illegitimate as you said it has a monopoly on force. So you can't do anything about it. You're just gonna have to deal with it.

"You're just gonna have to deal with it"

Statism at it's finest. :P
Last edited by Lockean Georgeville on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skeckoa
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Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Skeckoa » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:55 pm

Ainin wrote:Nah. The Interstates would probably have long-fallen into a state of utter disrepair if it was anarchy.
I see that you have not driven through Alameda County, California then.
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———————————— Support your local communites, celebrate difference, time is cyclical
———————————— Workers, unite! Dismantle Colorism. Modern politicians are pedos and eat babies and worship S*tan
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———————————— We're all brothers and sisters trapped under the same sky.

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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63063
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:56 pm

Lockean Georgeville wrote:
Democratic Koyro wrote:
The State cannot commit an act of terrorism. The State cannot commit a crime. Individuals within the State can.

So-called State terrorism is where the State sponsors terrorism. it does not actually commit it. There is no such thing as State Terrorism.

The State has an illegitimate monopoly on violence.

How is it illegitimate?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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Albul
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Posts: 1234
Founded: Jan 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Albul » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:56 pm

Democratic Koyro wrote:
Albul wrote:No, you get the help from another state and start a revolution... unless that state is the US.


LOL!

The only way to have your anarchist hellhole is to beg one State to destroy another.

I don't support anarchy.
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