Should muslims be treated equally?

[The New Age Republic]

I guess that stopping muslims getting on planes and owning guns would lower terrorism, but only in the same way it would if you stopped any group of people from doing these actions. Hell, if you stop them from getting on planes then surely you'll just annoyed all muslims, not just the radicals, and force the majority against you. Treat 'em equal, ban guns, leave the middle east alone and don't harass minorities and terrorism should fade out given time.

[Twilight Imperium]

You're arguing with positions I haven't taken and repeating yourself when I explain where you're mistaken. I'm no longer entertaining it.

You're arguing that Islam is destroying the underpinnings of democracy. I'm very entertained by it.

[New Socialist South Africa]

I know what the mugging is, but what does the actual mugger using the gun (Islam?) represent?

It's not really a political cartoon but I suppose it would be whatever party is pursuing the establishment of a repressive state.

Well then surely they (the mugger) should be the one whom you ultimately seek to defeat? Islam, Christianity, etc (the gun) can be a weapon / tool for good in the right hands.

[Des-Bal]

Well then surely they (the mugger) should be the one whom you ultimately seek to defeat? Islam, Christianity, etc (the gun) can be a weapon / tool for good in the right hands.

And if that were not the case I would complaining about Islam in general and not it's presentation in the third world.

[Des-Bal]

You're arguing that Islam is destroying the underpinnings of democracy. I'm very entertained by it.

It certainly is, at least in the Third World. T

[Gauthier]

It's amusing how you speak of it becoming 'just' a religion like Christianity or Judaism, contrasting them with the supposed barbarism of Islam when neither Christianity nor Judaism have their hands clean in the modern day, nor does Christianity lack global political aspirations. Unless, of course, you've missed the past century of dominionist thought et co.

Modern day Judaism is completely free of barbarism, modern day Christianity is unacceptable but no where near the level of Islam.

coughcoughBaruchGoldsteincoughcoughYigalAmircoughcough

[Conserative Morality]

You're arguing with positions I haven't taken and repeating yourself when I explain where you're mistaken. I'm no longer entertaining it.

I'm not dodging the point I never made the point. My issues with Islam have to do with it's impact on democratic state development in the Third World in terms of this discussion I'm taking objection with the dishonest rhetoric.

Right.

Let me break this down for you:

1. A group's commonality only matters if it is causation, not correlation.

2. If in the absence of other variables, said group (The constant) does not have the same rate as the variable you are looking for, it is pointless to examine it as a cause or as an identifier.

3. You may as well argue that, in the situation you HAD to watch a group as some sort of health commissioner in charge of preventing the spread of epidemic diseases, you'd watch black people in the States, because black people are overwhelmingly the victims of Ebola.

[Gauthier]

Sarcasm, friend, it's sarcasm.

Sorry, sorry. Just had to jump on that. Too many people like to say that way too often. Honestly, if even half of all Muslims were terrorists, we'd probably be in the middle of a world war. Not even all Muslims need to be terrorists for it to be a massive issue, just half, maybe even less. And since the world isn't like that, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they aren't all. But I suppose that's me trying to reason with unreasonable people, so they'll find a way to ignore the logic.

It's a sad reflection when sarcasm about all Muslims being genetically evil terrorists gets jumped on because too many people say the same thing with conviction.

[New Socialist South Africa]

Well then surely they (the mugger) should be the one whom you ultimately seek to defeat? Islam, Christianity, etc (the gun) can be a weapon / tool for good in the right hands.

And if that were not the case I would complaining about Islam in general and not it's presentation in the third world.

But the fact is that for the person being killed, it makes no difference whether they are being killed in the name of Allah, God, Yahweh, Krishna, the Reich, the Revolution, the Party or racial purity. All that matters to them is "ARGH! I'M BURNING!"

And now I'm going for a run, talk later.

[Imyoji]

Simple Answer: Yes

Convoluted Answer: Can we please start treating other humans as fucking humans already? I can hear the myopia (whatever myopia sounds like).

[Greater-London]

1. You see, again, you argue from an axiom. You immediately make a distinction between "Western" and "Islamic" civilizations, implying an inherent difference in the West and Islam. You can't argue with someone that "Western culture doesn't include Islam" and then claim that there's an "Islamic civilization". Fuck, I'll say Western culture doesn't include Christian civilization. You really can't argue that Christianity is a part of Western culture.

2.Yes, in the same way that Catholic habits and Mennonite headcoverings are noticeably different, sure. Incidentally, many Christians aren't westerners, with large populations in East and South Africa.

3. Right, so I suppose that doesn't make Judaism as a faith one of our religious traditions? Go ahead. Make that claim.

1. Well I did make the point that the distinction wasn't incredibly useful AND that there was spillover in my previous post. I don't think the terms "Islamic" and "Western" culture are especially useful but if you look at what is traditionally consider "Western" or "Islamic" they are obviously different. I also can make that argument, I'm not saying that Islam cant be in part of Western culture I'm saying that historically speaking the definitive features of Western culture doesn't include Islam. Would you genuinely argue that the faith of Islam has had more influence over what we traditional see as Western culture is more of less influential than Christianity OR Greek Philosophy, Liberal Thought ETC?

2. They distinguish themselves from the Burka and Niqab because they don't cover the face. If someone has a Manchester United shirt on and someone has a Manchester City shirt on their both wearing football shirts that cover the torso. That doesn't mean they aren't different and they are recognized to represent different things.

3. I would say that it has a longer and more widespread presence in Europe than Islam. I'm not saying that there hasn't been Muslims/Jews/Non-Christianis in Europe in our past just if you talk about "Western Civilization" like its a monolith and religion you are overwhelmingly going to talk about the affects of Chrisanity than Judeaism or Islam.

[Gauthier]

You're arguing with positions I haven't taken and repeating yourself when I explain where you're mistaken. I'm no longer entertaining it.

I'm not dodging the point I never made the point. My issues with Islam have to do with it's impact on democratic state development in the Third World in terms of this discussion I'm taking objection with the dishonest rhetoric.

Right.

Let me break this down for you:

1. A group's commonality only matters if it is causation, not correlation.

2. If in the absence of other variables, said group (The constant) does not have the same rate as the variable you are looking for, it is pointless to examine it as a cause or as an identifier.

3. You may as well argue that, in the situation you HAD to watch a group as some sort of health commissioner in charge of preventing the spread of epidemic diseases, you'd watch black people in the States, because black people are overwhelmingly the victims of Ebola.

Or that in order to reduce the likelihood of crime you should have groups monitor blacks because black people are overwhelmingly arrested and convicted of crimes.

[Des-Bal]

But the fact is that for the person being killed, it makes no difference whether they are being killed in the name of Allah, God, Yahweh, Krishna, the Reich, the Revolution, the Party or racial purity. All that matters to them is "AH! I'M BURNING!"

And the fact is that that without Islam as a means of mobilization there wouldn't be nearly as much burning.

[New Socialist South Africa]

But the fact is that for the person being killed, it makes no difference whether they are being killed in the name of Allah, God, Yahweh, Krishna, the Reich, the Revolution, the Party or racial purity. All that matters to them is "AH! I'M BURNING!"

And the fact is that that without Islam as a means of mobilization there wouldn't be nearly as much burning.

No. If it wasn't in the name of Islam it would probably just be in the name of Jesus, or Krishna, or whatever stepped in to full its place.

The problem isn't Islam, the problem is the underlying factors that lead to extremism (poverty, inequality, political instability, etc), regardless of what vessel it uses.

And now I really must get going on this run.

[Greater Brabant]

Islamophobia and discrimination of MUslims is the prime cause of Radicalisation.
Denying them rights will make it worse

[Des-Bal]

No. If it wasn't in the name of Islam it would probably just be in the name of Jesus, or Krishna, or whatever stepped in to full its place.

The problem isn't Islam, the problem is the underlying factors that lead to extremism (poverty, inequality, political instability, etc), regardless of what vessel it uses.

And now I really must get going on this run.

There's no reason to assume anything would step in it's place.

[Twilight Imperium]

No. If it wasn't in the name of Islam it would probably just be in the name of Jesus, or Krishna, or whatever stepped in to full its place.

The problem isn't Islam, the problem is the underlying factors that lead to extremism (poverty, inequality, political instability, etc), regardless of what vessel it uses.

And now I really must get going on this run.

There's no reason to assume anything would step in it's place.

Aside from the nearly-identical patterns of extremism in <insert cause here> style political movements, sure.

[Conserative Morality]

1. Well I did make the point that the distinction wasn't incredibly useful AND that there was spillover in my previous post. I don't think the terms "Islamic" and "Western" culture are especially useful but if you look at what is traditionally consider "Western" or "Islamic" they are obviously different. I also can make that argument, I'm not saying that Islam cant be in part of Western culture I'm saying that historically speaking the definitive features of Western culture doesn't include Islam. Would you genuinely argue that the faith of Islam has had more influence over what we traditional see as Western culture is more of less influential than Christianity OR Greek Philosophy, Liberal Thought ETC?

Considering that much of our Greek philosophy comes from translations and interpretations of "Islamic Civilization"? Considering that few people would dispute the Greek pantheon as part of Western civilization despite having a far lesser influence than Islam? Considering that Western civilization has only been characterized by liberal thought post-WW1?

2. They distinguish themselves from the Burka and Niqab because they don't cover the face. If someone has a Manchester United shirt on and someone has a Manchester City shirt on their both wearing football shirts that cover the torso. That doesn't mean they aren't different and they represent different things.

Who the hell is talking about burkas and niqabs? Considering that such practices are pre-Islamic Persian in origin and the headscarf is the most common form of Muslim dress in the West (And in much of the rest of the world)? You can't say "Candy is different from pie, therefore, the latter is not sweet." That was my main point.

2. I never said that was the case. I said that religious clothing in Christianity and Islam are the same thing in the way that trousers and a skirt are the same thing. Yes they are religious clothing but they are noticeably different.

You presented the difference as the factor between differentiating between Muslim and Christian dress, yet I pointed out such differences between Mennonite and Catholic religious dress doesn't exclude one or the other from being part of Western civilization. Differing from a religious tradition in an aspect, or even many aspects, is not enough to exclude it. You admitted that Muslim dress was not fundamentally different, just more noticeable and common, yet when confronted with counter-examples you assert an inherent kind of difference in the practice in order to try and put distance between Christian religious traditions (Which you see as Western) and Muslim religious traditions (Which you do not)

3. I would say that it has a longer and more widespread presence in Europe than Islam. I'm not saying that there hasn't been Muslims/Jews/Non-Christianis in Europe in our past just if you talk about "Western Civilization" like its a monolith and religion you are overwhelmingly going to talk about the affects of Chrisanity than Judeaism or Islam.

If you only talk about Christianity when discussing Western civilization, you're missing a big part of the foundation. Jewish and Muslim thought has been incredibly influential on Western civilization. Indeed, one might say that they're a... PART of it!

[Conserative Morality]

Or that in order to reduce the likelihood of crime you should have groups monitor blacks because black people are overwhelmingly arrested and convicted of crimes.

I was hoping to avoid overt accusations of racism in my example.

[Northern Union of Islands]

As a Christian I am very ashamed. Very ashamed. I assume OP is Christian as well.

So hear this, all humans are equal in the eyes of God.

From a non-religious standpoint: All humans are equal.

Enough said.

[Des-Bal]

Aside from the nearly-identical patterns of extremism in <insert cause here> style political movements, sure.

Not paying attention.

[Twilight Imperium]

Aside from the nearly-identical patterns of extremism in <insert cause here> style political movements, sure.

Not paying attention.

I know you're not, man, but it's nice of you to admit it, I suppose.

[Slenderman The CreepyPasta King]

Hey. Just because a few extremest muslims participated in terrorist attacks doesnt mean we have to treat them less thanothers. This is America, where everyone should be treated equaly. Havnt you heard of the song 'this land was made for you and me'?

[Cymrea]

What the f*ck did you just f*cking say about me, you little b*tch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the f*ck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my f*cking words. You think you can get away with saying that sh*t to me over the Internet? Think again, f*cker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re f*cking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable a*s off the face of the continent, you little sh*t. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your f*cking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you godd*mn idiot. I will sh*t fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re f*cking dead, kiddo.

Are you new to the internet? I didn't think there was a player left on NS who wasn't familiar with this tired trope already. It's clearly copypasted with the same misspelling of al-Qaeda. Just...sad.

[Tekania]

Nice strawman there...

You genuinely despise one of the central and fundamental tenants of American democracy, one of the many freedoms that we hold dear and admire as part of the goodness of America.
It's not a strawman. It's not a distraction. It's not an exaggeration. The simple fact of the matter is that you hate America.

And doesn't merely hate "America" as a place, but hate the very intrinsic idea and foundation of "America". This again, from his speach patterns he appears to be a Dominionist heretic..... Which luckily is a very minority extremist element. What they really want to do is abolish America and its foundation and replace it with a Theonomist state.