Should muslims be treated equally?

[Conserative Morality]

Except I say AGAIN that I am not talking about terrorism.

You're dodging the point again, because you know you have no answer. Terrorism, democratic development, fucking pringle flavors for all I care.

[Conserative Morality]

Well then I would agree again, although I would stress that this "one group to be primarily concerned with" pertaining to the Middle East in Muslim fundamentalists, not all Muslims. Secondly, is some nations, such as Uganda, this "one group to be primarily concerned with" is Christian fundamentalists and not Muslims or Muslim fundamentalists.

In some nations it is and in some nations it may well be prince but on the broad scale Islam is a larger issue.

You should really take some asprin for that Malarial flareup. It looks like it's getting pretty bad.

[New Socialist South Africa]

Well then I would agree again, although I would stress that this "one group to be primarily concerned with" pertaining to the Middle East in Muslim fundamentalists, not all Muslims. Secondly, is some nations, such as Uganda, this "one group to be primarily concerned with" is Christian fundamentalists and not Muslims or Muslim fundamentalists.

In some nations it is and in some nations it may well be prince but on the broad scale Islam is a larger issue.

Well I would say more poor quality education, poverty, inequality, lack of opportunity, intolerance and political instability, as that is what Islamic fundamentalism, and most forms of extremism, rely upon, but you could make that argument in a certain sense.

[Dalcaria]

Not a single good thing resulted from the Arab Spring, the Middle East is a worse off place than before. All it did was destabilize Libya, Syria, Egypt, and Iraq. Previous tyrants that otherwise kept control have been replaced with Islamic fundamentalists and thugs. Only Egypt narrowly escaped their fate under the Muslim Brotherhood, all the other aforementioned countries turned into war zones.

You do realize that the fundamentalist groups that popped up are BECAUSE of the previous tyrants, right? Assad abused the group that ISIS is mostly made up of, and then ISIS was created to fight him. And NOW look where we are! Bravo Middle Eastern tyrants! Truly you set your nations on a path of eternal peace!

[Des-Bal]

You're dodging the point again, because you know you have no answer. Terrorism, democratic development, fucking pringle flavors for all I care.

I'm not dodging the point you're using very different words interchangeably. Islam is IMMEDIATELY relevant to what I'm talking about. It is a tool being used to sabotage the development of democratic states. You're being mugged and pretending the gun isn't at all something you should be worried about.

[Corunia and Mironor]

"Should muslims be treated equally?"

Of course they should. They are people, just like christians, jews, atheists, pagans, and people of other religions, and therefore should be treated equally.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm not dodging the point you're using very different words interchangeably. Islam is IMMEDIATELY relevant to what I'm talking about. It is a tool being used to sabotage the development of democratic states. You're being mugged and pretending the gun isn't at all something you should be worried about.

You're pretending that it'd make a difference whether it was chambered in .380 ACP or a .38 special. ".380 ACP ammunition is the number one cause of muggings in this city!"

No, it's really not.

[Des-Bal]

You're pretending that it'd make a difference whether it was chambered in .380 ACP or a .38 special. ".380 ACP ammunition is the number one cause of muggings in this city!"

No, it's really not.

No I'm not. You're being ridiculous.

[Conserative Morality]

No I'm not.

So what you're saying is that you think focusing on an aspect that isn't relevant to the cause of terrorist acts is just a wonderful way to spend time and energy.

You're being ridiculous.

How the fuck so? As the saying goes, it's a bad workman who blames his tool. You're looking at a hammer in a murder case and saying "Well, clearly we have to watch out for people with hammers." If you remove certain variables from the equation and leave Islam as the constant, surprise, surprise, you get different results! In fact, it almost seems as though Islam is neither the catalyst nor the primary source of the problem!

Wow. Who could have thought that the idea of Islam as a whole being a warning sign for terrorism (Understanding that you were speaking theoretically) would have been wrong? I thought Homeland Security proved that was rock solid!

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

-snip-

[New Socialist South Africa]

You're dodging the point again, because you know you have no answer. Terrorism, democratic development, fucking pringle flavors for all I care.

I'm not dodging the point you're using very different words interchangeably. Islam is IMMEDIATELY relevant to what I'm talking about. It is a tool being used to sabotage the development of democratic states. You're being mugged and pretending the gun isn't at all something you should be worried about.

Well actually no. in that analogy the gun is violence, violence exists regardless of the group or individual using it. The particular group (religion, race, gender, socio-economic background) of the person mugging him is, I believe, what he is dismissing. The matter that should be addressed are the underlying causes that push individuals toward becoming violent. In this case it is Islamic fundamentalism (although it could just as easily be Christian fundamentalism, Nazism, etc), which has itself been fed on by poverty, inequality, lack of opportunity, intolerance and political instability.

[Greater-London]

1. So Western Culture doesn't include Islam, it just contains copious amounts of Muslim influence in everything from art to philosophy. That doesn't make Islam *really* a part of Western Culture.
...
Right.

2.So, Mennonites aren't Western. Or nuns.

3.You see, you say "what Western culture doesn't differentiate between its own religious traditions and those of Islam." but the use of contrasting "its own" religious traditions with Islam implies that Islam isn't one of our religious traditions as an axiom. You're asking a question that you answer in the question.

1. No it doesn't. There are obvious historical and cultural connections between "Western" and "Islamic" culture but they are different entities. A culture doesn't have to evolve completely independently to be different from something else. The precepts of Western and Islamic culture are different and whilst the two are reconcilable that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Also you can obviously draw a distinction between Islamic culture and Islam - The Islamic world has influenced Europe in many ways but we never took to Islam. Islamic Art, Islamic Science ETC but not the religion of Islam.

2. I never said that was the case. I said that religious clothing in Christianity and Islam are the same thing in the way that trousers and a skirt are the same thing. Yes they are religious clothing but they are noticeably different. Incidentally many Mennonites aren't westerners with large populations in India and West Africa

3. No Islam as a faith isn't one of our religious traditions. There have been Muslims that have lived in Europe in the past but what we consider "Western Culture" (a term that isn't especially useful) it doesn't really include Islam as Europe has been overwhelmingly Christian throughout the last 1000 years.

[Des-Bal]

So what you're saying is that you think focusing on an aspect that isn't relevant to the cause of terrorist acts is just a wonderful way to spend time and energy.

No I'm saying you're making a pointless defense of Islam and generally ignoring what I'm saying.

[Des-Bal]

Well actually no. in that analogy the gun is violence,

No it's not.

[New Socialist South Africa]

Well actually no. in that analogy the gun is violence,

No it's not.

So what is it then? And if not then who is the mugger?

[Saiwania]

You do realize that the fundamentalist groups that popped up are BECAUSE of the previous tyrants, right? Assad abused the group that ISIS is mostly made up of, and then ISIS was created to fight him. And NOW look where we are! Bravo Middle Eastern tyrants! Truly you set your nations on a path of eternal peace!

ISIS wouldn't have been able to come about if the US never invaded Saddam's Iraq nor would it have made it very far. Personally, I'll take a good tyrant that maintains an iron hand over the alternative of something like a Muslim Brotherhood controlled Egypt.

If Mubarak was never ousted, there would be virtually no difference from now, because Egypt's military is still in charge, virtually no change from the previous regime, except for a different leader in office, only Egypt could've avoided its chaotic period of Muslim Brotherhood control entirely.

As can be clearly seen from what has resulted in the other countries: Libya? In chaos. Syria? All of the factions asides from Assad are frankly lunatics. Assad isn't perfect, but considering the choices available- he is the least bad option. Now Obama being as foolish as he is- thinks that giving training/aid to the rebels will make any difference when they're long past the point of winning, any help given to anyone other than Assad is the same as helping ISIS in Syria.

[Des-Bal]

So what is it then? And if not then who is the mugger?

The mugging is the undesired event IE the failure of democratic states and the weapon is the tool being used to facilitate it IE Islam.

[Lindenholt]

The question alone is disgusting.

[Conserative Morality]

1. No it doesn't. There are obvious historical and cultural connections between "Western" and "Islamic" culture but they are different entities. A culture doesn't have to evolve completely independently to be different from something else. The precepts of Western and Islamic culture are different and whilst the two are reconcilable that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Also you can obviously draw a distinction between Islamic culture and Islam - The Islamic world has influenced Europe in many ways but we never took to Islam. Islamic Art, Islamic Science ETC but not the religion of Islam.

You see, again, you argue from an axiom. You immediately make a distinction between "Western" and "Islamic" civilizations, implying an inherent difference in the West and Islam. You can't argue with someone that "Western culture doesn't include Islam" and then claim that there's an "Islamic civilization". Fuck, I'll say Western culture doesn't include Christian civilization. You really can't argue that Christianity is a part of Western culture.

2. I never said that was the case. I said that religious clothing in Christianity and Islam are the same thing in the way that trousers and a skirt are the same thing. Yes they are religious clothing but they are noticeably different.

Yes, in the same way that Catholic habits and Mennonite headcoverings are noticeably different, sure.

Incidentally many Mennonites aren't westerners with large populations in India and West Africa

Incidentally, many Christians aren't westerners, with large populations in East and South Africa.

3. No Islam as a faith isn't one of our religious traditions. There have been Muslims that have lived in Europe in the past but what we consider "Western Culture" (a term that isn't especially useful) that doesn't really include Islam as Europe has been overwhelmingly Christian throughout the last 1000 years.

Right, so I suppose that doesn't make Judaism as a faith one of our religious traditions? Go ahead. Make that claim.

[New Socialist South Africa]

So what is it then? And if not then who is the mugger?

The mugging is the undesired event IE the failure of democratic states and the weapon is the tool being used to facilitate it IE Islam.

I know what the mugging is, but what does the actual mugger using the gun (Islam?) represent?

[Conserative Morality]

No I'm saying you're making a pointless defense of Islam and generally ignoring what I'm saying.

Your definition of "A pointless defense of Islam" being "Arguing to address the actual solution".

"Wow, look at the blood coming out of his eyes! Clearly blood is the problem here!"

No. Ebola virus is the problem. Blood is not the problem, it's not even a symptom. Blood from the eyes is a symptom. If your body ran with chocolate syrup it wouldn't matter a whit; the issue wouldn't be chocolate syrup, it'd be the virus (as identified the substance your body needs to run seeping out of your goddamn eyeballs).

[Des-Bal]

I know what the mugging is, but what does the actual mugger using the gun (Islam?) represent?

It's not really a political cartoon but I suppose it would be whatever party is pursuing the establishment of a repressive state.

[Xtoshtia]

I agree with you they shouldn't at all.

[Des-Bal]

Your definition of "A pointless defense of Islam" being "Arguing to address the actual solution".

"Wow, look at the blood coming out of his eyes! Clearly blood is the problem here!"

No. Ebola virus is the problem. Blood is not the problem, it's not even a symptom. Blood from the eyes is a symptom. If your body ran with chocolate syrup it wouldn't matter a whit; the issue wouldn't be chocolate syrup, it'd be the virus (as identified the substance your body needs to run seeping out of your goddamn eyeballs).

You're arguing with positions I haven't taken and repeating yourself when I explain where you're mistaken. I'm no longer entertaining it.

[Conserative Morality]

I know what the mugging is, but what does the actual mugger using the gun (Islam?) represent?

It's not really a political cartoon but I suppose it would be whatever party is pursuing the establishment of a repressive state.

Makes a big difference whether his pistol is blowback or recoil oepration, eh?