The Greatest Gun Bill Ever

[Big Jim P]

because you can never be certain that he won't come unglued and go off on you if you don't let him have his way.

You DO realize that is a uncommon scenario, and the few perpetrators that "acted" on their emotions while armed were charged of murder, right? in the very least, additional charges due to them carrying a gun?

Since it is a very expensive and costly situation to beat a murder charge, your average law abiding gun owner is not going to be inclined to be confrontational if he/she is carrying.

If you have a gun, people will treat you with respect.

Not necessarily. If this were the case, defensive gun uses wouldn't be commonplace.

And it's not new, look at those douchebag "My Neighbor Doesn't Carry a Gun" signs intended to inflict robberies on people whose only crime is not carrying a firearm.

In response to Gauthier, this came about because certain douchebags in the media thought they would make a point from the anti-gun, moral panic soapbox by publishing the addresses of concealed weapons license holders...

Of course I dont find it acceptable, but it didn't just come out of the blue.

Well, it is obviously o.k. if gun control freaks do it. Just not the other way around.

[The Conez Imperium]

Wait why do people need to openly carry firearms?

The same reason for carrying concealed: Self defense.

Jeez, this in not rocket science.

Wouldn't it be a better mentality to think of it primarily as recreation? I mean if people are so ingrained to think that guns=self defense maybe there is something wrong with the culture.

[Gauthier]

You DO realize that is a uncommon scenario, and the few perpetrators that "acted" on their emotions while armed were charged of murder, right? in the very least, additional charges due to them carrying a gun?

Since it is a very expensive and costly situation to beat a murder charge, your average law abiding gun owner is not going to be inclined to be confrontational if he/she is carrying.



Not necessarily. If this were the case, defensive gun uses wouldn't be commonplace.



In response to Gauthier, this came about because certain douchebags in the media thought they would make a point from the anti-gun, moral panic soapbox by publishing the addresses of concealed weapons license holders...

Of course I dont find it acceptable, but it didn't just come out of the blue.

Well, it is obviously o.k. if gun control freaks do it. Just not the other way around.

Because people feel the compulsion to rob houses of people listed as owning guns.

And what's the worst thing that can happen to someone mentioned as a gun owner? It's not like they're *ashamed* to be known as a gun owner right?

[Big Jim P]

The same reason for carrying concealed: Self defense.

Jeez, this in not rocket science.

Wouldn't it be a better mentality to think of it primarily as recreation? I mean if people are so ingrained to think that guns=self defense maybe there is something wrong with the culture.

A firm grasp of reality is something wrong? Guns are excellent means of self defense. Of course they are used for recreation, but, that is not the reason to carry.

[Big Jim P]

Well, it is obviously o.k. if gun control freaks do it. Just not the other way around.

Because people feel the compulsion to rob houses of people listed as owning guns.

And what's the worst thing that can happen to someone mentioned as a gun owner? It's not like they're *ashamed* to be known as a gun owner right?

Hey, If the GCFs can't take the heat, maybe they shouldn't light the fire.

[Cannabis Islands]

Wouldn't it be a better mentality to think of it primarily as recreation? I mean if people are so ingrained to think that guns=self defense maybe there is something wrong with the culture.

A firm grasp of reality is something wrong? Guns are excellent means of self defense. Of course they are used for recreation, but, that is not the reason to carry.

I agree with that, and I don't have a problem with you carrying. But I must say, every NRA instructor told me that it is stupid to open carry because that makes you a target. One said "Don't let your heat be loud". Plus, the open carry laws vary so fucking dramatically from state to state, it might be a supreme court issue.

Plus, I am happy with my .357 Magnum. No pistols for me. Too much fucking recoil and I don't need 30 mag clips. But if you want 30 mag clips, or more, I won't stop you.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

The alternative to open-carry is much worse than open-carry. Many anti-gun people and obviously none of those that would rather have concealed over open carry fail to realize this. By that point you're making the decision to be blissfully unaware of what's going on around you and giving up knowing whether someone is carrying a gun or not to satisfy your unfounded phobias. Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever especially for an anti-gun person.

I actually prefer concealed carry to open carry; being "blissfully unaware" of whether the people around me are armed or not doesn't bother me at all — and it removes the possibility of sociopathic assholes using subtle hints and body language in order to legally intimidate anyone around them who might be unarmed.

So you'd rather have sociopathic assholes that are armed and you do NOT know are armed over sociopathic assholes that are armed and you know they're armed. Got it.

I mean, if a dirtbag nastily asks you to move to a different table at the restaurant or to give up your parking space, you're probably going to flip him off. But if an armed nastily dirtbag asks you to move to a different table at the restaurant or to give up your parking space, you're probably going to give it to him, because you can never be certain that he won't come unglued and go off on you if you don't let him have his way.

No, that's just you and your unfounded fear of gun owners.

Of course, gun buffs will answer that if you have a gun, he won't do that. THAT'S what they mean when they call an armed society "polite": If you carry a gun, people will treat you with respect. To me, that's sick: The idea that you need to carry and display lethal force in order to ensure that people treat you like a human being —

It's almost as if there exist people out there willing to pray on others' vulnerabilities. But nooo, that would be crazy right?

and that if you're too "weak" to carry a gun you DESERVE to be treated like slime — is repulsive beyond description, and I have no desire whatsoever to live in a place where that's the social convention, however "manly" it might seem to some.

Now you're just strawmanning the shit out of this motherfucker.

No one's saying they deserve it. No one's saying rape victims deserve it, no one's saying murder victims deserve it, no one's saying assault victims deserve it. But guess what? It FUCKING HAPPENS.

Yeah, it would be just fucking great to live in a world with no rape, no murder, no assaults - but WE'RE NOT.

It's a Might Makes Right mentality that they find appealing. And it's not new, look at those douchebag "My Neighbor Doesn't Carry a Gun" signs intended to inflict robberies on people whose only crime is not carrying a firearm. It's a miracle there hasn't been a sociopath who took a gun to be a blank check and really played out nightmare scenarios.

It isn't about might is right, it's about the fact that in an armed society the bar for "unpolite" behavior is raised tenfold. Few of the assholes willing to deal with the consequences of giving someone a bruise or a broken nose, or alternately, getting themselves bruised or their nose broken while trying to, are willing to deal with consequences of shooting someone or getting themselves shot.

Denying that is just being dishonest.

[Big Jim P]

A firm grasp of reality is something wrong? Guns are excellent means of self defense. Of course they are used for recreation, but, that is not the reason to carry.

I agree with that, and I don't have a problem with you carrying. But I must say, every NRA instructor told me that it is stupid to open carry because that makes you a target. One said "Don't let your heat be loud". Plus, the open carry laws vary so fucking dramatically from state to state, it might be a supreme court issue.

I personally prefer to carry concealed, but I support the right to open carry if someone prefers to. One of the aspects of HB195 I like is it removes the need for a CCW (not he availability of one however. I will be getting a CCW whether legally required to or not. It has certain advantages.). I am a firm believer in Constitutional Carry.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Well, it is obviously o.k. if gun control freaks do it. Just not the other way around.

Because people feel the compulsion to rob houses of people listed as owning guns.

And what's the worst thing that can happen to someone mentioned as a gun owner? It's not like they're *ashamed* to be known as a gun owner right?

But wait I thought guns are more likely to injure or kill someone in the household they're held than a criminal yadayada. I thought they're not good/effective for self-defense. I thought they're not really a deterrent, but more of an escalation-bringer.

Yet..

It's a Might Makes Right mentality that they find appealing. And it's not new, look at those douchebag "My Neighbor Doesn't Carry a Gun" signs intended to inflict robberies on people whose only crime is not carrying a firearm. It's a miracle there hasn't been a sociopath who took a gun to be a blank check and really played out nightmare scenarios.

..so why aren't the robbers targeting the clumsy gun nuts over those that don't keep guns? The ones more likely to shoot themselves than the robbers? The ones whose guns are supposedly ineffective self-defense and deterrence tools?

After all, it's easier to rob a dead person.

[Cannabis Islands]

I agree with that, and I don't have a problem with you carrying. But I must say, every NRA instructor told me that it is stupid to open carry because that makes you a target. One said "Don't let your heat be loud". Plus, the open carry laws vary so fucking dramatically from state to state, it might be a supreme court issue.

I personally prefer to carry concealed, but I support the right to open carry if someone prefers to. One of the aspects of HB195 I like is it removes the need for a CCW (not he availability of one however. I will be getting a CCW whether legally required to or not. It has certain advantages.). I am a firm believer in Constitutional Carry.

I don't really feel the need to carry on person. If gun rights and anti-gun folks are that passionate about open carry, then a I think a Supreme Court case will have to be in order. But I believe open carry is more of a statement rather than self-defense. Because if have taken martial arts, like Krav Maga, you learn to disarm people.

[Big Jim P]

I personally prefer to carry concealed, but I support the right to open carry if someone prefers to. One of the aspects of HB195 I like is it removes the need for a CCW (not he availability of one however. I will be getting a CCW whether legally required to or not. It has certain advantages.). I am a firm believer in Constitutional Carry.

I don't really feel the need to carry on person. If gun rights and anti-gun folks are that passionate about open carry, then a I think a Supreme Court case will have to be in order. But I believe open carry is more of a statement rather than self-defense. Because if have taken martial arts, like Krav Maga, you learn to disarm people.

Didn't that Krav Maga/martial art thing get argued a few pages back?

As for open carry being a statement, it is. It is stating that I will exercise my rights to both self defense and to bear arms.

[Big Jim P]

Because people feel the compulsion to rob houses of people listed as owning guns.

And what's the worst thing that can happen to someone mentioned as a gun owner? It's not like they're *ashamed* to be known as a gun owner right?

But wait I thought guns are more likely to injure or kill someone in the household they're held than a criminal yadayada. I thought they're not good/effective for self-defense. I thought they're not really a deterrent, but more of an escalation-bringer.

Yet..

It's a Might Makes Right mentality that they find appealing. And it's not new, look at those douchebag "My Neighbor Doesn't Carry a Gun" signs intended to inflict robberies on people whose only crime is not carrying a firearm. It's a miracle there hasn't been a sociopath who took a gun to be a blank check and really played out nightmare scenarios.

..so why aren't the robbers targeting the clumsy gun nuts over those that don't keep guns? The ones more likely to shoot themselves than the robbers? The ones whose guns are supposedly ineffective self-defense and deterrence tools?

After all, it's easier to rob a dead person.

Among the many things that GCFs will not admit to are the facts that guns serve as a deterrent and are effective self defense tools. Hell, I have seen some who don't believe that a person has a right to self defense at all.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I personally prefer to carry concealed, but I support the right to open carry if someone prefers to. One of the aspects of HB195 I like is it removes the need for a CCW (not he availability of one however. I will be getting a CCW whether legally required to or not. It has certain advantages.). I am a firm believer in Constitutional Carry.

I don't really feel the need to carry on person. If gun rights and anti-gun folks are that passionate about open carry, then a I think a Supreme Court case will have to be in order. But I believe open carry is more of a statement rather than self-defense. Because if have taken martial arts, like Krav Maga, you learn to disarm people.

Good luck disarming someone anything more than a few feet away.

[Cannabis Islands]

I don't really feel the need to carry on person. If gun rights and anti-gun folks are that passionate about open carry, then a I think a Supreme Court case will have to be in order. But I believe open carry is more of a statement rather than self-defense. Because if have taken martial arts, like Krav Maga, you learn to disarm people.

Didn't that Krav Maga/martial art thing get argued a few pages back?

As for open carry being a statement, it is. It is stating that I will exercise my rights to both self defense and to bear arms.

And you have every right to do that. Don't all socialists are anti-gun. It's mostly a cultural thing. When you grow up...well..in Puerto Rican/Cuban and Mexican ghetto, and you were own those nerd kids you wanted to kick in the stomach, and you weren't of the same nationally(but same race) of the three listed, you learn to want to be armed. It's mostly, I hate to be sound racist, white liberals that live in the suburbs that are against guns.

Sorry, my fellow lefties, you learn to fucking distrust the people that say they protect you, but don't come when you call(at I mean don't fucking show up at all) and walking/shopping/driving/standing while brown in the ghetto, you learn to hmmm not hate cops, but don't really like them. Not to wish harm on them, but you just tend to have a distrust for them by default.

[Cannabis Islands]

I don't really feel the need to carry on person. If gun rights and anti-gun folks are that passionate about open carry, then a I think a Supreme Court case will have to be in order. But I believe open carry is more of a statement rather than self-defense. Because if have taken martial arts, like Krav Maga, you learn to disarm people.

Good luck disarming someone anything more than a few feet away.

Yeah, but my fucking shot is horrible, and carrying a large piece of mental with me. I will stick out like a sore thumb.

[Big Jim P]

Good luck disarming someone anything more than a few feet away.

Yeah, but my fucking shoot is horrible, and carrying a large piece of mental with me. I will stick out like a sore thumb.

Not everybody is a bad shot.

[Cannabis Islands]

Yeah, but my fucking shoot is horrible, and carrying a large piece of mental with me. I will stick out like a sore thumb.

Not everybody is a bad shot.

I don't want to shoot people by default... The whole point is to use your weapon ONLY when your life is threaten.

[Big Jim P]

Not everybody is a bad shot.

I don't want to shoot people by default... The whole point is to use your weapon ONLY when your life is threaten.

The definition of self defense (if you include defending against potential severe bodily harm).

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

But wait I thought guns are more likely to injure or kill someone in the household they're held than a criminal yadayada. I thought they're not good/effective for self-defense. I thought they're not really a deterrent, but more of an escalation-bringer.

Yet..



..so why aren't the robbers targeting the clumsy gun nuts over those that don't keep guns? The ones more likely to shoot themselves than the robbers? The ones whose guns are supposedly ineffective self-defense and deterrence tools?

After all, it's easier to rob a dead person.

Among the many things that GCFs will not admit to are the facts that guns serve as a deterrent and are effective self defense tools. Hell, I have seen some who don't believe that a person has a right to self defense at all.

Ah, I've heard some gems as well. One of the best is this thing they like to call "equal response". If your attacker is using a baseball bat, you may only hit them back with a baseball bat. A pipe is not kosher. As well, you might not bare-knuckle fight your opponent in a different martial arts style, as that is considered cheating, and should* get you 10 years to life in jail, a lifelong subscription to a rehabilitation course in pacifism and equal responseTM and/or castration to tone down your machismo violent testosteronic tendencies.

[Cannabis Islands]

I don't want to shoot people by default... The whole point is to use your weapon ONLY when your life is threaten.

The definition of self defense (if you include defending against potential severe bodily harm).

And I do strongly, strongly believe in self-defense. But I've haven't been broken in hard enough to shoot to kill. I will shirt to disarm, by severe but NOT fatal injury when my life is threaten. That's just me. Again, I don't hate guns, I just don't have a fucking fetish with them .

But really, it seems know that you either hate the fucking things or love the fucking things.

[Big Jim P]

Among the many things that GCFs will not admit to are the facts that guns serve as a deterrent and are effective self defense tools. Hell, I have seen some who don't believe that a person has a right to self defense at all.

Ah, I've heard some gems as well. One of the best is this thing they like to call "equal response". If your attacker is using a baseball bat, you may only hit them back with a baseball bat. A pipe is not kosher. As well, you might not bare-knuckle fight your opponent in a different martial arts style, as that is considered cheating, and should* get you 10 years to life in jail, a lifelong subscription to a rehabilitation course in pacifism and equal responseTM and/or castration to tone down your machismo violent testosteronic tendencies.

"Equal response".

If attacked, no matter what the attacker is armed with (or even if they are totally unarmed, if you legitimately fear for your life or fear great bodily harm) you stop the attack, something that guns are very good at doing.

Note: "Stop the attack", not "kill the attacker". If the mere presence of the gun on your person does that then all good. If shooting the attacker and they live, all good. If they die from the gunshot, then that is merely collateral damage. They made thier choice when they attacked.

[Big Jim P]

The definition of self defense (if you include defending against potential severe bodily harm).

And I do strongly, strongly believe in self-defense. But I've haven't been broken in hard enough to shoot to kill. I will shirt to disarm, by severe but NOT fatal injury when my life is threaten. That's just me. Again, I don't hate guns, I just don't have a fucking fetish with them .

But really, it seems know that you either hate the fucking things or love the fucking things.

If you shoot to disarm, then you will likely die and/or kill innocent bystanders. RL ain't the movies.

[Cannabis Islands]

And I do strongly, strongly believe in self-defense. But I've haven't been broken in hard enough to shoot to kill. I will shirt to disarm, by severe but NOT fatal injury when my life is threaten. That's just me. Again, I don't hate guns, I just don't have a fucking fetish with them .

But really, it seems know that you either hate the fucking things or love the fucking things.

If you shoot to disarm, then you will likely die and/or kill innocent bystanders. RL ain't the movies.

Well, I'm speaking more in a home defense type of thing.

[Big Jim P]

If you shoot to disarm, then you will likely die and/or kill innocent bystanders. RL ain't the movies.

Well, I'm speaking more in a home defense type of thing.

Still just as bad. Fewer potential innocent bystanders though.

[Cannabis Islands]

Well, I'm speaking more in a home defense type of thing.

Still just as bad. Fewer potential innocent bystanders though.

That's true. Hey, I had a couple of question on LaVeyanism, check your telegrams.