The Greatest Gun Bill Ever

[Spirit of Hope]

Just so you realize Paddy is/was in the US Army. And the US Army does happily hand 17-18 year old kids full autos and go "shoot this". They generally get some training first though. And what Paddy proposed was the ability for kids to get trained in High School as an elective class (something I would happily be behind), in such a class you probably wouldn't even be handed a gun for the first couple of weeks, instead learning safety rules, cleaning procedures and laws all before you might get a gun.

That is how my dad got me shooting in elementary school. Have messed up yet.

And the United States has a voluntary military. And I do say that the military is a form of training. I am saying a any fucking 17-18 year olds walking into a store and saying "Give me a full auto FN P90".

To bad any 17-18 year old can't walk into a gun store and buy a full auto. First I believe you have to be 18, second full autos require the signature of the head of BATFE and the local law enforcement/sheriff to transfer, all gun purchases in a store require a back ground check, and thats just for starters.

[Cannabis Islands]

And the United States has a voluntary military. And I do say that the military is a form of training. I am saying a any fucking 17-18 year olds walking into a store and saying "Give me a full auto FN P90".

To bad any 17-18 year old can't walk into a gun store and buy a full auto. First I believe you have to be 18, second full autos require the signature of the head of BATFE and the local law enforcement/sheriff to transfer, all gun purchases in a store require a back ground check, and thats just for starters.

Yep, and why should a person buy something that is MADE TO KILL PEOPLE without any backgrounds checks or training?

[Spirit of Hope]

^ Exactly this to the letter.

Yeah, and what if the kids are mentally ill and are planning to shoot up the school. And it happens. What you going to do then?

Well the school probably doesn't have a shooting range, so they couldn't really shoot up the school. The teacher will have had weeks to get to know the kids and probably will be able to weed out any kids with serious issues, and finally such tragedies are very rare.

You do realize that guns kill about as many people in the US as cars? and that two thirds of gun deaths in the US are suicides? And that cars injure about 2 million people while guns only injure about 80,000 people?

I'm far more worried about being killed by a car than by a gun.

And that is why guns owners should be trained and licensed. and that does not change the fact that guns are made to kill.

Less than 1,000 gun deaths are caused by accidents, less than drowning, no need for training. Licensing is just a hidden tax, and does nothing again.

[Spirit of Hope]

To bad any 17-18 year old can't walk into a gun store and buy a full auto. First I believe you have to be 18, second full autos require the signature of the head of BATFE and the local law enforcement/sheriff to transfer, all gun purchases in a store require a back ground check, and thats just for starters.

Yep, and why should a person buy something that is MADE TO KILL PEOPLE without any backgrounds checks or training?

Any store purchase requires a back ground check. And see above.

[Cannabis Islands]

Yeah, and what if the kids are mentally ill and are planning to shoot up the school. And it happens. What you going to do then?

Well the school probably doesn't have a shooting range, so they couldn't really shoot up the school. The teacher will have had weeks to get to know the kids and probably will be able to weed out any kids with serious issues, and finally such tragedies are very rare.

And that is why guns owners should be trained and licensed. and that does not change the fact that guns are made to kill.

Less than 1,000 gun deaths are caused by accidents, less than drowning, no need for training. Licensing is just a hidden tax, and does nothing again.

Does not change the fact that guns are made to kill people. And the United States seems to be only place in the WESTERN WORLD that these "rare" tragedies happened. And what we have that the rest of the WESTERN WORLD doesn't have? Liberal gun laws. Plus, a teacher is not a mental health professional.

[Paddy O Fernature]

^ Exactly this to the letter.

(1)Yeah, and what if a kid is mentally ill and are planning to shoot up the school. And it happens. What you going to do then? (2)Why is giving a person a gun without checking the person's mental health the default position?

1: Odds of that happening in a properly monitored and executed program are about the same as being mauled by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear in the same day. The rifles used in the school program will more then likely be what they were in the past, .22 bolt action rifles. The instructors, like any at any other firearm training course you take, will be armed themselves and will be properly trained themselves in dealing with an active shooter scenario.

2: NICS. Read up on it.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Mandatory no. More widely available to those wishing to partake, say in High School as an elective course, certainly.

When was the last time you met a high schooler?

At the beginning of last hunting season I volunteered at a range to help 12 year-olds (so not even in high school yet) who were just getting their hunting license go through a 'field day' where they shot and sighted-in their firearms and were put into simulated situations wherein their safe gun handling was tested (crossing fences, entering and exiting vehicles and retrieving/storing the firearm, hiking, resting, etc.)

None of twenty-seven had any safety violations.
High Schoolers, and even those younger, are fully capable of being taught and acting responsibly.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Well the school probably doesn't have a shooting range, so they couldn't really shoot up the school. The teacher will have had weeks to get to know the kids and probably will be able to weed out any kids with serious issues, and finally such tragedies are very rare.


Less than 1,000 gun deaths are caused by accidents, less than drowning, no need for training. Licensing is just a hidden tax, and does nothing again.

Does not change the fact that guns are made to kill people.

Funny, I have a safe FULL of firearms that were not made to kill people and never will kill anything for that matter. Unless of course, you entertain the asinine notion that putting holes in various junk targets is somehow violent.

[Spreewerke]

Just so you realize Paddy is/was in the US Army. And the US Army does happily hand 17-18 year old kids full autos and go "shoot this". They generally get some training first though. And what Paddy proposed was the ability for kids to get trained in High School as an elective class (something I would happily be behind), in such a class you probably wouldn't even be handed a gun for the first couple of weeks, instead learning safety rules, cleaning procedures and laws all before you might get a gun.

That is how my dad got me shooting in elementary school. Have messed up yet.

And the United States has a voluntary military. And I do say that the military is a form of training. I am saying a any fucking 17-18 year olds walking into a store and saying "Give me a full auto FN P90".

Those feels when I literally bought an AK on my 18th birthday.

[Cannabis Islands]

(1)Yeah, and what if a kid is mentally ill and are planning to shoot up the school. And it happens. What you going to do then? (2)Why is giving a person a gun without checking the person's mental health the default position?

1: Odds of that happening in a properly monitored and executed program are about the same as being mauled by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear in the same day. The rifles used in the school program will more then likely be what they were in the past, .22 bolt action rifles. The instructors, like any at any other firearm training course you take, will be armed themselves and will be properly trained themselves in dealing with an active shooter scenario.

2: NICS. Read up on it.

I know what the NICS is, sir. And I'm asking you, do you believe that we should just hand guns to anyone that is willing to buy them? And if that is your belief? Why is that?

[Cannabis Islands]

Does not change the fact that guns are made to kill people.

Funny, I have a safe FULL of firearms that were not made to kill people and never will kill anything for that matter. Unless of course, you entertain the asinine notion that putting holes in various junk targets is somehow violent.

I don't think that I am speaking about you. You were in the military, you received training, therefore you, Paddy, are qualified to own a gun.

[Paddy O Fernature]

And the United States has a voluntary military. And I do say that the military is a form of training. I am saying a any fucking 17-18 year olds walking into a store and saying "Give me a full auto FN P90".

Those feels when I literally bought an AK on my 18th birthday.

Those feels when I help friends and family make a informed decision on their first firearm purchase, and am there to pick it up with them.

[Spreewerke]

Those feels when I literally bought an AK on my 18th birthday.

Those feels when I help friends and family make a informed decision on their first firearm purchase, and am there to pick it up with them.

Those feels when I've outshot National Guardsmen and former US Army and former US Marines. Those feels when even though I shot qualifications with nine other people, only one besides myself had shot a gun since qualifications, to my knowledge.

It's almost as if not all military and LEOs are gung-ho gun owners, but are instead people who chose a career that is rewarding and happens to involve a gun sometimes on occasion.

Not trying to rustle your jimmies, of course: I know there are plenty of people who could still outshoot me no problem. Our instructors made that apparent, no doubt.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Funny, I have a safe FULL of firearms that were not made to kill people and never will kill anything for that matter. Unless of course, you entertain the asinine notion that putting holes in various junk targets is somehow violent.

I don't think that I am speaking about you. You were in the military, you received training, therefore you, Paddy, are qualified to own a gun.

Everyone is qualified to own a firearm if they so choose. It is after all,their given right to do so until such a time that it can be proven that they should no longer have such a right bestowed upon them. Such is the case for example, with convicted felons and those deemed mentally unfit.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Those feels when I help friends and family make a informed decision on their first firearm purchase, and am there to pick it up with them.

Those feels when I've outshot National Guardsmen and former US Army and former US Marines. Those feels when even though I shot qualifications with nine other people, only one besides myself had shot a gun since qualifications, to my knowledge.

It's almost as if not all military and LEOs are gung-ho gun owners, but are instead people who chose a career that is rewarding and happens to involve a gun sometimes on occasion.

Not trying to rustle your jimmies, of course: I know there are plenty of people who could still outshoot me no problem. Our instructors made that apparent, no doubt.

No jimmies rustled here.

And you are correct. Most people I've met over the years are just good folk looking to make something of themselves the only way they know how. Either through selfless service through public service and/or continuing education through college.

[Paddy O Fernature]

1: Odds of that happening in a properly monitored and executed program are about the same as being mauled by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear in the same day. The rifles used in the school program will more then likely be what they were in the past, .22 bolt action rifles. The instructors, like any at any other firearm training course you take, will be armed themselves and will be properly trained themselves in dealing with an active shooter scenario.

2: NICS. Read up on it.

I know what the NICS is, sir. And I'm asking you, do you believe that we should just hand guns to anyone that is willing to buy them? And if that is your belief? Why is that?

If a person meets all current laws and qualifications, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to buy a handgun or sporting rifle if they so choose.

[Spreewerke]

Those feels when I've outshot National Guardsmen and former US Army and former US Marines. Those feels when even though I shot qualifications with nine other people, only one besides myself had shot a gun since qualifications, to my knowledge.

It's almost as if not all military and LEOs are gung-ho gun owners, but are instead people who chose a career that is rewarding and happens to involve a gun sometimes on occasion.

Not trying to rustle your jimmies, of course: I know there are plenty of people who could still outshoot me no problem. Our instructors made that apparent, no doubt.

No jimmies rustled here.

And you are correct. Most people I've met over the years are just good folk looking to make something of themselves the only way they know how. Either through selfless service through public service and/or continuing education through college.

Just like how I will eventually be in a career where I am in a vehicle every day, and yet I don't know a damned thing about automobiles. It's almost as if I am doing it for something other than driving a car someone else paid for that happens to go fast.

[Cannabis Islands]

Those feels when I've outshot National Guardsmen and former US Army and former US Marines. Those feels when even though I shot qualifications with nine other people, only one besides myself had shot a gun since qualifications, to my knowledge.

It's almost as if not all military and LEOs are gung-ho gun owners, but are instead people who chose a career that is rewarding and happens to involve a gun sometimes on occasion.

Not trying to rustle your jimmies, of course: I know there are plenty of people who could still outshoot me no problem. Our instructors made that apparent, no doubt.

No jimmies rustled here.

And you are correct. Most people I've met over the years are just good folk looking to make something of themselves the only way they know how. Either through selfless service through public service and/or continuing education through college.

I also went to trade school. What is your point? And since you seem upset that I don't have any militarily service. I will most likely be medical unfit, and since it is VOLUNTARY service, I think you can answer the rest.

Edit: I thank you for your service, but please don't judge persons that can't or don't wish to serve.

[Paddy O Fernature]

No jimmies rustled here.

And you are correct. Most people I've met over the years are just good folk looking to make something of themselves the only way they know how. Either through selfless service through public service and/or continuing education through college.

Just like how I will eventually be in a career where I am in a vehicle every day, and yet I don't know a damned thing about automobiles. It's almost as if I am doing it for something other than driving a car someone else paid for that happens to go fast.

Indeed.

[Spreewerke]

No jimmies rustled here.

And you are correct. Most people I've met over the years are just good folk looking to make something of themselves the only way they know how. Either through selfless service through public service and/or continuing education through college.

I also went to trade school. What is your point?

His (and my) point is that someone doesn't have to be military or law enforcement to know how to properly use a gun. In fact, the amount of people in the military and law enforcement that are horrible with firearms is going to be way beyond what you are imagining right now. It's possible for someone to be trained in firearms usage without being .mil/LEO.

[Cannabis Islands]

I also went to trade school. What is your point?

His (and my) point is that someone doesn't have to be military or law enforcement to know how to properly use a gun. In fact, the amount of people in the military and law enforcement that are horrible with firearms is going to be way beyond what you are imagining right now. It's possible for someone to be trained in firearms usage without being .mil/LEO.

I never said they had to be .mil/leo. I said that they should receive some training provided by sponsored classes and by certified trainers.

[Paddy O Fernature]

His (and my) point is that someone doesn't have to be military or law enforcement to know how to properly use a gun. In fact, the amount of people in the military and law enforcement that are horrible with firearms is going to be way beyond what you are imagining right now. It's possible for someone to be trained in firearms usage without being .mil/LEO.

I never said they had to be .mil/leo. I said that they should receive some training provided by sponsored classes and by certified trainers.

So, why are you opposed to this training be offered as an elective in high schools again?

[Cannabis Islands]

I never said they had to be .mil/leo. I said that they should receive some training provided by sponsored classes and by certified trainers.

So, why are you opposed to this training be offered as an elective in high schools again?

Because I think if someone wants to teach their minor how to use a gun, it should be their parents, family member or by private classes until they reach the age of majority.

And military service was pushed on us at a young age in my school, paddy. Recruiters were at the high school almost every week. I believe that is your getting at, correct?

[Jamjai]

*flies to Texas*

*sees a couple of people on the streets with rifles*

"OH MY GAWD!"

[Wisconsin9]

When was the last time you met a high schooler?

At the beginning of last hunting season I volunteered at a range to help 12 year-olds (so not even in high school yet) who were just getting their hunting license go through a 'field day' where they shot and sighted-in their firearms and were put into simulated situations wherein their safe gun handling was tested (crossing fences, entering and exiting vehicles and retrieving/storing the firearm, hiking, resting, etc.)

None of twenty-seven had any safety violations.
High Schoolers, and even those younger, are fully capable of being taught and acting responsibly.

A lot, yes. The problem I see with offering it as an elective is that it's probably mostly going to be taken by students who want some easy credit and/or an excuse to shoot shit. I have more than a few classmates I feel could be trusted to be responsible with a gun, but they all either already know how to use a gun or don't seem like they'd be interested in learning.