The Greatest Gun Bill Ever

[Cymrea]

For a state with such a deservedly grand reputation for their barbecue, I'd think that Texans would have flamethrowers for deterrence.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Exactly the opposite, surprisingly. Texas currently allows open-carry of long arms without a license, but not pistols (though I'm unsure if open carry is allowed even with a license, I think not but don't have the reference to be sure).

Edit: To be precise, this is why I backed off and began referring to those states as 'similar' in terms of open-carry restrictions. A number of vagaries and different standard popped up in regards to treatment of firearms in vehicles, preemptions by municipalities being allowed or not, and in the case of Arkansas open-carry was illegal if an intent to use the firearm illegally could be established.

I stand corrected, then.

Of course, you've hit upon the same point I have: That all of these laws vary wildly from State to State. You don't need a license to by a long arm in Michigan, but you can't carry it openly. You need a license to buy a pistol here — which you CAN open carry — and then another (CWL) if you wish to carry that pistol concealed or in your car (other than in your trunk, unloaded and locked away separate from your ammunition, which is also how everyone has to treat long arms while transporting them in your car). As for rooftop gun racks, they're a grey area here (so long as the weapon is unloaded); you may get pulled over for having it there, because apparently some States allow such weapons to be loaded, making them an easy ticket for the owner who screws up.

Anyone carrying anything they want anytime they want is likely only something seen in a very few places.

I'm unsure, honestly. I've mainly went off wikipedia's listing here so as to avoid digging through every state's code. If it's to be believed there's a wide number of states where such is the standard as per open carrying.

In any case, as I mentioned in another edit, the point of the list was to counter the unfounded prediction of doom openly carrying a firearm supposedly represented by providing a quick listing of states where such is legal and hasn't resulted in the predicted doompocalypse.
Missouri, now that I review, shouldn't of been on the list at all as they require licenses to open carry (per wiki) and all that information could be out of date or inaccurate because of general datedness or incompleteness of laws on wikipedia. Not to mention the differences in particulars (the preemption, handgun v. longarm, vehicle travel carrying, etc.) The point of the exercise was built off of 'unlicensed open carry', with those particulars ignored because of an assumed lesser impact (which I would stand by) of those factors compared to the unlicensed open-carry allowance.

[The Neo-Hellenic Republic]

You guys are talking shit, but maybe we should give it a trial run.
If it works out and crime goes down, then we could look into expanding this bill.

And if it doesn't work out?

Then the state can pay for the funerals and memorials in streets and schools.

[Spirit of Hope]

And if it doesn't work out?

Then the state can pay for the funerals and memorials in streets and schools.

Yes, because open carry is going to dramatically increase the death toll. As has already been mentioned, the legislation under discussion will just change where the people are carrying it. From concealed to open carry.

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

I see no point in concealed carry. When I was in Israel, I felt safe because so many citizens were openly carrying.

NRA makes a big deal about firearm safety training. Safety training should be mandatory.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I see no point in concealed carry. When I was in Israel, I felt safe because so many citizens were openly carrying.

NRA makes a big deal about firearm safety training. Safety training should be mandatory.

Mandatory no. More widely available to those wishing to partake, say in High School as an elective course, certainly.

[WestRedMaple]

I see no point in concealed carry. When I was in Israel, I felt safe because so many citizens were openly carrying.

NRA makes a big deal about firearm safety training. Safety training should be mandatory.

Better for defensive purposes if criminals are not aware which people are carrying. Much more difficult to target people without firearms if you have no idea which people those might be, and also eliminates the option of first targeting someone who is carrying.

[Wisconsin9]

I see no point in concealed carry. When I was in Israel, I felt safe because so many citizens were openly carrying.

NRA makes a big deal about firearm safety training. Safety training should be mandatory.

Mandatory no. More widely available to those wishing to partake, say in High School as an elective course, certainly.

When was the last time you met a high schooler?

[Paddy O Fernature]

Mandatory no. More widely available to those wishing to partake, say in High School as an elective course, certainly.

When was the last time you met a high schooler?

I work with 17/18 year old kids all the time. Which funny enough, are all mature and trusted enough to handle fully automatic weapons on a regular basis.

[Cannabis Islands]

When was the last time you met a high schooler?

I work with 17/18 year old kids all the time. Which funny enough, are all mature and trusted enough to handle fully automatic weapons on a regular basis.

It is not only about being "mature". You have to fucking know how to handle them. The skill. Just because someone is "mature" does not atomically give them the knowledge on how to handle a full auto. It like putting someone in a car that happens to be mature and expecting them to know how to drive, when they never drew a car in their life. And why does the right get their ass in a fucking bunch when we just want gun owners to be licensed?

[Paddy O Fernature]

I work with 17/18 year old kids all the time. Which funny enough, are all mature and trusted enough to handle fully automatic weapons on a regular basis.

It is not only about being "mature". You have to fucking know how to handle them. The skill.

Believe me, these kids know full well how to handle them and have "skill" in spades.

[Cannabis Islands]

It is not only about being "mature". You have to fucking know how to handle them. The skill.

Believe me, these kids know full well how to handle them and have "skill" in spades.

Bullshit. You have to know how to handle a fucking gun before you shoot a fucking full auto. You just can't hand a "mature" person a full auto and say "here, shoot this"

[Wisconsin9]

When was the last time you met a high schooler?

I work with 17/18 year old kids all the time. Which funny enough, are all mature and trusted enough to handle fully automatic weapons on a regular basis.

Now I'm interested in what it is you do, since just about the only people in my school I'd trust in such a class are the ones who wouldn't take it.

[Burleson 2]

Having a license doesn't mean the gun owner is less likely to use the gun irresponsibly. Look at drivers, people with drivers licenses get in car accidents all the time. A piece of paper isn't going to make it impossible for someone to be an idiot and shoot up a school.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Believe me, these kids know full well how to handle them and have "skill" in spades.

Bullshit. You have to know how to handle a fucking gun before you shoot a fucking full auto. You just can't hand a "mature" person a full auto and say "here, shoot this"

It's pretty clear that you have never served a day in the Military, or else you would know how absolutely stupid you're argument is right now.

[Cannabis Islands]

Bullshit. You have to know how to handle a fucking gun before you shoot a fucking full auto. You just can't hand a "mature" person a full auto and say "here, shoot this"

It's pretty clear that you have never served a day in the Military, or else you would know how absolutely stupid you're argument is right now.

And here comes the ad hominems. If my argument is "stupid", then prove it wrong. And just because I don't have military experience does not fucking mean my argument is less valid.

[Spirit of Hope]

Believe me, these kids know full well how to handle them and have "skill" in spades.

Bullshit. You have to know how to handle a fucking gun before you shoot a fucking full auto. You just can't hand a "mature" person a full auto and say "here, shoot this"

Just so you realize Paddy is/was in the US Army. And the US Army does happily hand 17-18 year old kids full autos and go "shoot this". They generally get some training first though. And what Paddy proposed was the ability for kids to get trained in High School as an elective class (something I would happily be behind), in such a class you probably wouldn't even be handed a gun for the first couple of weeks, instead learning safety rules, cleaning procedures and laws all before you might get a gun.

That is how my dad got me shooting in elementary school. Have messed up yet.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I work with 17/18 year old kids all the time. Which funny enough, are all mature and trusted enough to handle fully automatic weapons on a regular basis.

Now I'm interested in what it is you do, since just about the only people in my school I'd trust in such a class are the ones who wouldn't take it.

I get grossly underpaid to babysit 17/18 year old kids fresh off the bus and make sure they don't do something stupid and render themselves useless. It does have it's moments though.

[Cannabis Islands]

Having a license doesn't mean the gun owner is less likely to use the gun irresponsibly. Look at drivers, people with drivers licenses get in car accidents all the time. A piece of paper isn't going to make it impossible for someone to be an idiot and shoot up a school.

And how do we know that people have the knowledge to handle a gun? Guns are fucking tools that DO KILL PEOPLE. They are MADE TO KILL, cars are NOT made to kill.

[Burleson 2]

Having a license doesn't mean the gun owner is less likely to use the gun irresponsibly. Look at drivers, people with drivers licenses get in car accidents all the time. A piece of paper isn't going to make it impossible for someone to be an idiot and shoot up a school.

And how do we know that people have the knowledge to handle a gun? Guns are fucking tools that DO KILL PEOPLE. They are MADE TO KILL, cars are NOT made to kill.

Just because someone knows how to handle a gun, doesn't mean that they're going to use it properly.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Bullshit. You have to know how to handle a fucking gun before you shoot a fucking full auto. You just can't hand a "mature" person a full auto and say "here, shoot this"

what Paddy proposed was the ability for kids to get trained in High School as an elective class (something I would happily be behind), in such a class you probably wouldn't even be handed a gun for the first couple of weeks, instead learning safety rules, cleaning procedures and laws all before you might get a gun.

^ Exactly this to the letter.

[Spirit of Hope]

Having a license doesn't mean the gun owner is less likely to use the gun irresponsibly. Look at drivers, people with drivers licenses get in car accidents all the time. A piece of paper isn't going to make it impossible for someone to be an idiot and shoot up a school.

And how do we know that people have the knowledge to handle a gun? Guns are fucking tools that DO KILL PEOPLE. They are MADE TO KILL, cars are NOT made to kill.

You do realize that guns kill about as many people in the US as cars? and that two thirds of gun deaths in the US are suicides? And that cars injure about 2 million people while guns only injure about 80,000 people?

I'm far more worried about being killed by a car than by a gun.

[Cannabis Islands]

Bullshit. You have to know how to handle a fucking gun before you shoot a fucking full auto. You just can't hand a "mature" person a full auto and say "here, shoot this"

Just so you realize Paddy is/was in the US Army. And the US Army does happily hand 17-18 year old kids full autos and go "shoot this". They generally get some training first though. And what Paddy proposed was the ability for kids to get trained in High School as an elective class (something I would happily be behind), in such a class you probably wouldn't even be handed a gun for the first couple of weeks, instead learning safety rules, cleaning procedures and laws all before you might get a gun.

That is how my dad got me shooting in elementary school. Have messed up yet.

And the United States has a voluntary military. And I do say that the military is a form of training. I am saying a any fucking 17-18 year olds walking into a store and saying "Give me a full auto FN P90".

[Cannabis Islands]

And how do we know that people have the knowledge to handle a gun? Guns are fucking tools that DO KILL PEOPLE. They are MADE TO KILL, cars are NOT made to kill.

You do realize that guns kill about as many people in the US as cars? and that two thirds of gun deaths in the US are suicides? And that cars injure about 2 million people while guns only injure about 80,000 people?

I'm far more worried about being killed by a car than by a gun.

And that is why guns owners should be trained and licensed. and that does not change the fact that guns are made to kill.

[Cannabis Islands]

what Paddy proposed was the ability for kids to get trained in High School as an elective class (something I would happily be behind), in such a class you probably wouldn't even be handed a gun for the first couple of weeks, instead learning safety rules, cleaning procedures and laws all before you might get a gun.

^ Exactly this to the letter.

Yeah, and what if a kid is mentally ill and are planning to shoot up the school. And it happens. What you going to do then? Why is giving a person a gun without checking the person's mental health the default position?