The Cannabis Thread

[New Manvir]

So the "What is this?" thread got derailed into a topic about Cannabis. Specifically the long term mental effects of Cannabis.

So we ended here before people told us to sod off.

This is what the Royal College of Psychiatrists has to say on the issue.

The effects on your mental health
Using cannabis triggers mental health problems in people who seemed to be well before, or it can worsen any mental health problems you already have. Research has shown that people who are already at risk of developing mental health problems, such as depression or schizophrenia (e.g. because somebody else in the family has it), are more likely to start showing symptoms if they use cannabis regularly. The younger you are when you start using it, the more you may be at risk. This is because your brain is still developing and can be more easily damaged by the active chemicals in cannabis.

If you stop using cannabis once you have started to show symptoms of mental illness, such as depression, paranoia or hearing voices, these symptoms may go away.

Unfortunately, not everyone will get better just by stopping smoking. If you go on using cannabis, the symptoms can get worse. It can also make any treatment that your doctor might prescribe for you, work less well. Your illness may come back more quickly and more often if you continue to use once you get well again.

Some people with mental health problems find that using cannabis makes them feel a bit better for a while. Unfortunately this does not last, and it does nothing to treat the illness. In fact, it may delay you from getting help you need and the illness may get worse in the longer term.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthin ... nabis.aspx

Now, I'm not arguing Cannabis has NO mental side-effects. Like alcohol, tobacco, coffee, cocaine or any other drug on the planet, Cannabis will have some positive and some negative side-effects on your body. I would say that blaming all of you're problems on one plant that is relatively harmless to the majority of people, especially in comparison to alcohol and tobacco (which kill approx. 75000and 440000Americans per year) is just plain stupid. AFAIK Cannabis is directly attributable to no deaths not only in the past year, but ever.

Topics on Cannabis are inevitably going to turn into discussions on whether it should be legal or illegal, so I guess I'll focus on that for now.

This site http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/ has plenty of information, backed by medical sources, on the myths and falsehoods that are presented to exaggerate the harmful effects of Cannabis.

I personally believe that the criminalization of Cannabis is based on nothing more than racism towards Mexicans, Blacks and South Asians (like myself) that was prevalent in North America during the 1930s when Cannabis was first criminalized.

[Conserative Morality]

Wrong, the racism is where it gained public support, and that's debatable. It was made illegal for the same reason that alcohol was criminalized in that era: people who felt that they didn't have enough legal bodies agreeing with their pitiful views on such things as drugs and sex, and so decided to fearmonger and campaign their way to a (legal) victory.

[Batuni]

That Royal Society report is the one they used to justify the rereclassification of Cannabis in the UK, when the politicians and media interpreted it as along the lines of 'Cannabis users at greater risk of psychosis.'

Nevermind the pesky details, right?

[Sel Appa]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

[Iron Chariots]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

Comparing smoking to sitting in a burning house is like comparing drinking a glass of water to chaining oneself to the bottom of a swimming pool.

[New Manvir]

Wrong, the racism is where it gained public support, and that's debatable. It was made illegal for the same reason that alcohol was criminalized in that era: people who felt that they didn't have enough legal bodies agreeing with their pitiful views on such things as drugs and sex, and so decided to fearmonger and campaign their way to a (legal) victory.

Whatever. I'm not going to lie, my racial and ethnic background makes me extremely biased on this issue. What really incenses me is that they managed to convince countries in South Asia, whose populations enjoyed and continue to enjoy Cannabis for recreational as well as religious use, that this custom they practiced for thousands of years was wrong and immoral. Cultural imperialism at it's finest.

[Ralvey]

I wasn't really trying to get into an argument about the effects of Cannabis; I thought that what with the OP in "What Is This?" mentioning Cannabis and Mental Health issues it was relevant. Tbh I was surprised we got asked to leave...

I don't really know anything about the history of Cannabis legality, what is this about?

I personally believe that the criminalization of Cannabis is based on nothing more than racism towards Mexicans, Blacks and South Asians (like myself) that was prevalent in North America during the 1930s when Cannabis was first criminalized.

I am just really anti-drugs, because the effects can vary so much from person to person so I think it's better to err on the side of caution.

[Batuni]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

I'm not a Dutchman, but I can fairly confidently tell you that it is, in Amsterdam, at least.

You're just not allowed to walk around whilst smoking it.

[Vonnerz]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

I'm not a Dutchman, but I can fairly confidently tell you that it is, in Amsterdam, at least.

You're just not allowed to walk around whilst smoking it.

technically it is illegal...if you have more than 5 grammes...in fact I believe it is illegal below that amount but a blind eye is turned by the authorities.

[New Manvir]

I wasn't really trying to get into an argument about the effects of Cannabis; I thought that what with the OP in "What Is This?" mentioning Cannabis and Mental Health issues it was relevant. Tbh I was surprised we got asked to leave...

I don't really know anything about the history of Cannabis legality, what is this about?

I personally believe that the criminalization of Cannabis is based on nothing more than racism towards Mexicans, Blacks and South Asians (like myself) that was prevalent in North America during the 1930s when Cannabis was first criminalized.

I am just really anti-drugs, because the effects can vary so much from person to person so I think it's better to err on the side of caution.

During the 1930s the US South had a huge increase in Mexican immigration, Mexicans brought Cannabis with them and introduced it to the white American populace. In this way Cannabis became associated with Mexican labourers and Blacks, as well as Jazz music. A douchebag named Henry Anslinger (US drug Czar at the time) associated Cannabis with Opium and Dope which was becoming a problem in many of the Northern US states. Anslinger then went on a fearmongering crusade that associated all three drugs with minorities (playing on the prejudices of the American populace of the time), and with immorality and African-American Jazz Music. The idea was that impressionable young white people would smoke Cannabis and then dance to Jazz music and engage in promiscuous activity. He used this to make the substance illegal in 1937 with the Marijuana Tax Act.

EDIT: I got most of that from this documentary.

As to your second statement. Sure we should err on the side of caution hen it comes to all drugs, that's why Cannabis should be legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. If you can't handle Cannabis, don't buy it. Legalization would also help keep it away from minors, drug dealers don't ask for ID while licensed dealers do.

[New Manvir]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

I'm not a Dutchman, but I can fairly confidently tell you that it is, in Amsterdam, at least.

You're just not allowed to walk around whilst smoking it.

technically it is illegal...if you have more than 5 grammes...in fact I believe it is illegal below that amount but a blind eye is turned by the authorities.

How much does legally available Cannabis cost in the Netherlands? I ask because I believe the current black market prices are highly inflated.

[Ifreann]

I am just really anti-drugs, because the effects can vary so much from person to person so I think it's better to err on the side of caution.

So because you can't handle cannabis, I am not allowed to have any?

[Vonnerz]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

I'm not a Dutchman, but I can fairly confidently tell you that it is, in Amsterdam, at least.

You're just not allowed to walk around whilst smoking it.

technically it is illegal...if you have more than 5 grammes...in fact I believe it is illegal below that amount but a blind eye is turned by the authorities.

How much does legally available Cannabis cost in the Netherlands? I ask because I believe the current black market prices are highly inflated.

it depends where you are and what you are buying...top class weed can be ten to 15 euro a gram...weaker weed is 5 euro...hash is around 8 to 15 a gram.

[New Manvir]

I think both sides of the issue are crazed psychopaths. Smoking cannabis involves smoke. Smoke will cause death. If you disagree, go relax in a burning house. On the other side, cannabis is not Satan. It very well may be less hazardous than alcohol or tobacco. Unsmoked cannabis (eaten or brewed in a tea) is quite likely very beneficial with mitigated side effects. In short, we should do what Netherlands has done: tolerate it and treat it as a medical problem. Which brings up another point, cannabis is NOT legal in Netherlands, as far as I know. I'm sure a Dutchman may be able to correct me.

I'm not a Dutchman, but I can fairly confidently tell you that it is, in Amsterdam, at least.

You're just not allowed to walk around whilst smoking it.

technically it is illegal...if you have more than 5 grammes...in fact I believe it is illegal below that amount but a blind eye is turned by the authorities.

How much does legally available Cannabis cost in the Netherlands? I ask because I believe the current black market prices are highly inflated.

it depends where you are and what you are buying...top class weed can be ten to 15 euro a gram...weaker weed is 5 euro...hash is around 8 to 15 a gram.

That's still somewhat expensive, I think the price would drop dramatically if it was cultivated like other plants.

[Vonnerz]

Vonnerz wrote -

it depends where you are and what you are buying...top class weed can be ten to 15 euro a gram...weaker weed is 5 euro...hash is around 8 to 15 a gram.

That's still somewhat expensive, I think the price would drop dramatically if it was cultivated like other plants.

that is cultivated...hash is imported...

ok when I say cultivated...much of the weed is grown in the Netherlands as well... but I really never hit that part of the scene...I tried to get decent locally grown weed to avoid the criminal element as much as possible. Sadly even then it is very hard to avoid at least some of my money going to crims...

[New Manvir]

Vonnerz wrote -

it depends where you are and what you are buying...top class weed can be ten to 15 euro a gram...weaker weed is 5 euro...hash is around 8 to 15 a gram.

That's still somewhat expensive, I think the price would drop dramatically if it was cultivated like other plants.

that is cultivated...hash is imported...

ok when I say cultivated...much of the weed is grown in the Netherlands as well... but I really never hit that part of the scene...I tried to get decent locally grown weed to avoid the criminal element as much as possible. Sadly even then it is very hard to avoid at least some of my money going to crims...

Absolutely, I'd rather support my local Cannabis farmer than a Mexican drug Cartel.

[Vonnerz]

Absolutely, I'd rather support my local Cannabis farmer than a Mexican drug Cartel.

I'd just be happy to grow my own...but given my utter lack of any kind of green appendage I am inclined to agree with you

[SD_Film Artists]

I don't want to take it myself, but I do support its legalisation as it has been proved to be less harmful and less addictive than alcohol and tobacco, as well as for civil rights.

[Conserative Morality]

Absolutely, I'd rather support my local Cannabis farmer than a Mexican drug Cartel.

Mexican Drug Cartels need love too!

[Vonnerz]

I don't want to take it myself, but I do support its legalisation as it has been proved to be less harmful and less addictive than alcohol and tobacco, as well as for civil rights.

its all about moderation...

[Vonnerz]

Absolutely, I'd rather support my local Cannabis farmer than a Mexican drug Cartel.

Mexican Drug Cartels need love too!

joking aside they are pretty nasty pieces of work...

[Uawc]

I'm against using cannabis for the THC, simply because it's bad for you. However, I think it's a great drug for medicinal purposes and cannabis is also an excellent building material for baskets and stuff.

[SD_Film Artists]

Absolutely, I'd rather support my local Cannabis farmer than a Mexican drug Cartel.

Mexican Drug Cartels need love too!

Apparently it's the Vietnamese gang(s) who are producing most of the non-home-brew* cannabis in the UK. Although in a way all cannabis production is 'home-brew'.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

I'm against using cannabis for the THC, simply because it's bad for you. However, I think it's a great drug for medicinal purposes and cannabis is also an excellent building material for baskets and stuff.

Don't they call that hemp?

[New Manvir]

I'm against using cannabis for the THC, simply because it's bad for you. However, I think it's a great drug for medicinal purposes and cannabis is also an excellent building material for baskets and stuff.

Lots of things are "bad for you". And how is it okay for sick people (who have lowered immune systems) to use it, but healthy people can't or shouldn't. That whole notion is absolutely absurd.