Child Silencer Device... Is it Ethical?

[Laerod]

It's really only in the last fifty years or so that it became unacceptable to strike a child.
Before that, it was not only acceptable, it was expected.

"Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." -Proverbs 13:24 (NIV)

As much as I hate bringing religion into this discussion, that particular quote seems quite appropriate.
Kids today are foul-mouthed, undisciplined, and spoiled. Kids fifty years ago were respectful to their elders and knew how to keep their mouths shut.

The job of a parent is not to coddle the child. The job of a parent is to prepare the child for adult life.
One of the most important lessons that a child needs to learn is personal responsibility, and spoiling a child teaches them nothing.

You have to remember that in the days where it was expected, the Rape of Belgium and the Holocaust happened. Physical punishment fucks people up and it tends to come out in form of a punishment fetish.

So, if the kind of adult life that corporal punishment prepares children for includes inflicting atrocities like in Abu Ghraib on people, I'll gladly take disrespectful and foul-mouthed kids instead.

[Torisakia]

Because I'm sure telling little Johnny 'don't do it again or I'm taking your Xbox away' really teaches them something (besides how to play handhelds). But since I follow a 'treat your kid however' ideal, I'm not one to say much.

And anytime you have to resort to violence to discipline a child is a failure at parenting.

So it's pretty much agreed on that there is no "correct way" to discipline a child, no?

[The Emerald Dawn]

And anytime you have to resort to violence to discipline a child is a failure at parenting.

So it's pretty much agreed on that there is no "correct way" to discipline a child, no?

One size does not fit all.

[Laerod]

And anytime you have to resort to violence to discipline a child is a failure at parenting.

So it's pretty much agreed on that there is no "correct way" to discipline a child, no?

Your side is the only one arguing that non-violent means of discipline don't work. Without any sort of evidence, I might add.

[Union Of Canadorian Socialists Republic]

I fear this could lead to psychological issues down the road. If you don't want noise, don't have kids. Should such a device be legal? No. It violates the child's basic rights.

[Torisakia]

So it's pretty much agreed on that there is no "correct way" to discipline a child, no?

Your side is the only one arguing that non-violent means of discipline don't work. Without any sort of evidence, I might add.

I'm obviously not saying that my method would always work. I just find it more fitting for my needs. Whether it makes/breaks most of the child's future self is none of my concern, just so long as they learn to behave when needed.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Because I'm sure telling little Johnny 'don't do it again or I'm taking your Xbox away' really teaches them something (besides how to play handhelds). But since I follow a 'treat your kid however' ideal, I'm not one to say much.

And anytime you have to resort to violence to discipline a child is a failure at parenting.

Time and place, but never with an intent to hurt or harm. A swift smack on the padded backside with a cupped hand meant to draw immediate attention and sound without the 'aw shit ow' effect in the least, when used in very rare occasion, can have an outstanding effect.

Point is, it's much better to teach choice and accountability, and consequences. You misbehave, which is btw far different from 'you cry at all because it irritates me' for those of you who seem to be laboring under the delusion that crying is never acceptable, then you have chosen to accept the consequences. For example the Xbox issue. Time away from games. Works wonders with my son - though we make sure it's all the game time. Not just 'off the computer so you can sneak off and play handhelds/Playstation/something else'. Extra chores outside the norm. And yes, regular chores ought to be something taught - kids have to learn how to clean things up, how to be responsible, and how to help chip in on the home upkeep within reason, and within their limited ability. All part and parcel of parenting. Not to be abused or used as free labor because parents don't want to do shit.

It never ceases to amaze how many in these younger generations have become what I would typify as self-concentric. Everything must revolve around them, and their needs. Is it a matter of having been spoiled too much? Of having been abused, neglected, or a failing on the part of parents to raise them with enough caring and compassion? Of having not been taught some of the basic things needed for a kid to grow up and be functional, self-sufficient, perhaps even productive? Of having grown up with too much media driving these cults of personality and a mis-perception of how things work? Of just being by nature selfish, uncaring individuals who lack the capacity for compassion for others, or to understand how maybe - just maybe - the universe does not, in fact, revolve around them? Too much social media suggesting to them the universe should in an echo-chamber environment that never turns off?

I don't have all the answers, folks. But I do know that failure begins in the home, with parenting. And I know that there are a lot of support groups and programs out there should parents be struggling - because even well-meaning ones, and ones who want to do a good job, sometimes struggle. I know you put your family first, and do what you can for your kids. And I know you never give up on them - no matter what. And I know you certainly don't 'mute' them, shut them out, shut them down, mediate them so you can have some quiet, lock them up so you can check your Facebook or get in another Candy Crush game, or put a collar on them to make them quiet enough for the self-important twat in line behind you who just can't stand to have a kid make any sort of fuss in public. And I know if your kid is throwing an absolute tantrum in the store, you sure as hell don't just drag them along until you're done shopping, inconveniencing everyone else - you pick that kid up, let them know in no uncertain terms this is utterly unacceptable, and you get them out of that store and do your shopping either when child has calmed down, or you have someone who can assist so you can get it done without shrieking banshee in tow.

It doesn't have to be 'beat or let run wild'. These silly black and white either/or scenarios some of you keep tossing out there are ridiculous in nature, and do nothing but add fuel to the flames in discussions like these. They're rather ignorant in nature, and seem to be tossed out in some bid to be seen as 'edgy' or 'on the margins' if anything.

As I mentioned earlier, we seem of late to be rather lacking in what some call 'common sense'. It's altogether uncommon these days. Pity.

/rant

[Pragia]

Could we have parent and regular people silencing devices? I don't want to have to hear conversations from other tables when I'm out at a restaurant...

Seriously though, this is bullshit, silencing people just because they're annoying is hardly ethical. The idea that it gives an alert is also bullshit, what happens when the kid fell down the stairs and needs help.

[Laerod]

Your side is the only one arguing that non-violent means of discipline don't work. Without any sort of evidence, I might add.

I'm obviously not saying that my method would always work. I just find it more fitting for my needs. Whether it makes/breaks most of the child's future self is none of my concern, just so long as they learn to behave when needed.

Then that's a pretty damn good reason never to use it ever.

[Imperializt Russia]

Could we have parent and regular people silencing devices? I don't want to have to hear conversations from other tables when I'm out at a restaurant...

Just have a romantic dinner over Skype like a normal person.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Could we have parent and regular people silencing devices? I don't want to have to hear conversations from other tables when I'm out at a restaurant...

Seriously though, this is bullshit, silencing people just because they're annoying is hardly ethical. The idea that it gives an alert is also bullshit, what happens when the kid fell down the stairs and needs help.

If someone manages to create a device that stops kinetic energy transfer, trust me we'd find better uses than stopping casual conversation.

[Torisakia]

And anytime you have to resort to violence to discipline a child is a failure at parenting.

Time and place, but never with an intent to hurt or harm. A swift smack on the padded backside with a cupped hand meant to draw immediate attention and sound without the 'aw shit ow' effect in the least, when used in very rare occasion, can have an outstanding effect.

Point is, it's much better to teach choice and accountability, and consequences. You misbehave, which is btw far different from 'you cry at all because it irritates me' for those of you who seem to be laboring under the delusion that crying is never acceptable, then you have chosen to accept the consequences. For example the Xbox issue. Time away from games. Works wonders with my son - though we make sure it's all the game time. Not just 'off the computer so you can sneak off and play handhelds/Playstation/something else'. Extra chores outside the norm. And yes, regular chores ought to be something taught - kids have to learn how to clean things up, how to be responsible, and how to help chip in on the home upkeep within reason, and within their limited ability. All part and parcel of parenting. Not to be abused or used as free labor because parents don't want to do shit.

It never ceases to amaze how many in these younger generations have become what I would typify as self-concentric. Everything must revolve around them, and their needs. Is it a matter of having been spoiled too much? Of having been abused, neglected, or a failing on the part of parents to raise them with enough caring and compassion? Of having not been taught some of the basic things needed for a kid to grow up and be functional, self-sufficient, perhaps even productive? Of having grown up with too much media driving these cults of personality and a mis-perception of how things work? Of just being by nature selfish, uncaring individuals who lack the capacity for compassion for others, or to understand how maybe - just maybe - the universe does not, in fact, revolve around them? Too much social media suggesting to them the universe should in an echo-chamber environment that never turns off?

I don't have all the answers, folks. But I do know that failure begins in the home, with parenting. And I know that there are a lot of support groups and programs out there should parents be struggling - because even well-meaning ones, and ones who want to do a good job, sometimes struggle. I know you put your family first, and do what you can for your kids. And I know you never give up on them - no matter what. And I know you certainly don't 'mute' them, shut them out, shut them down, mediate them so you can have some quiet, lock them up so you can check your Facebook or get in another Candy Crush game, or put a collar on them to make them quiet enough for the self-important twat in line behind you who just can't stand to have a kid make any sort of fuss in public. And I know if your kid is throwing an absolute tantrum in the store, you sure as hell don't just drag them along until you're done shopping, inconveniencing everyone else - you pick that kid up, let them know in no uncertain terms this is utterly unacceptable, and you get them out of that store and do your shopping either when child has calmed down, or you have someone who can assist so you can get it done without shrieking banshee in tow.

It doesn't have to be 'beat or let run wild'. These silly black and white either/or scenarios some of you keep tossing out there are ridiculous in nature, and do nothing but add fuel to the flames in discussions like these. They're rather ignorant in nature, and seem to be tossed out in some bid to be seen as 'edgy' or 'on the margins' if anything.

As I mentioned earlier, we seem of late to be rather lacking in what some call 'common sense'. It's altogether uncommon these days. Pity.

/rant

I blame myself for what I will become in the future, partly my parents for allowing me to grow up with a computer in the basement away from them to look up sketchy things, but mostly me. As I've said before, I have a warped and wicked sense of the world. If others don't like it, that's fine. I'm just here out of interest to debate.

I'm obviously not saying that my method would always work. I just find it more fitting for my needs. Whether it makes/breaks most of the child's future self is none of my concern, just so long as they learn to behave when needed.

Then that's a pretty damn good reason never to use it ever.

I feel kids learn better from harsher punishment, but again that's my opinion. Unfortunately, I'll never have the chance to test it out.

[Digital Planets]

I'd buy it, wear it around my neck, attempt to scream at my friends and while doing that, take it off at the same time.

I mean, who said it had to just for kids?

[Laerod]

And anytime you have to resort to violence to discipline a child is a failure at parenting.

Time and place, but never with an intent to hurt or harm. A swift smack on the padded backside with a cupped hand meant to draw immediate attention and sound without the 'aw shit ow' effect in the least, when used in very rare occasion, can have an outstanding effect.

And I'm arguing that not even that is truly ok and that it is still abuse. It teaches the child that violence is a means to obtain obedience and more often than not instills a desire to see "wrongdoing" punished. If there's one thing my parents spanking me taught me, it was to stab my sister with a safety pin when I thought she was misbehaving. I've managed to outgrow that but it is very clear many on these very forums and in our societies have not. Studies show that violence perpetuates itself and that it drastically increases the risk of anxiety or anger issues later on in life. No one's arguing against disciplining children (as you've noted), but some of us are most definitely arguing that it needs to be done without violence and without bullying.

[Laerod]

Then that's a pretty damn good reason never to use it ever.

I feel kids learn better from harsher punishment, but again that's my opinion. Unfortunately, I'll never have the chance to test it out.

How you've turned out is an argument against corporal punishment.

[Marelius]

Debating something that doesn't exist, and hence doesn't even have a way of working, is stupid.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Debating something that doesn't exist, and hence doesn't even have a way of working, is stupid.

NSG

[Torisakia]

I feel kids learn better from harsher punishment, but again that's my opinion. Unfortunately, I'll never have the chance to test it out.

How you've turned out is an argument against corporal punishment.

I'm not saying that the physical punishment I went through is the contributing factor to who I am today. There's a lot more that actually happened.

[Pragia]

Could we have parent and regular people silencing devices? I don't want to have to hear conversations from other tables when I'm out at a restaurant...

Just have a romantic dinner over Skype like a normal person.

Sending the ramen by mail, watching Netflix together, sheer romance has never been more well done.

[Digital Planets]

Debating something that doesn't exist, and hence doesn't even have a way of working, is stupid.

Next your gonna tell me that putting a collar on a small child is slavery.

[Laerod]

How you've turned out is an argument against corporal punishment.

I'm not saying that the physical punishment I went through is the contributing factor to who I am today. There's a lot more that actually happened.

It often isn't the main factor, but it hardly helps turn people into well-adjusted human beings.

[Torisakia]

I'm not saying that the physical punishment I went through is the contributing factor to who I am today. There's a lot more that actually happened.

It often isn't the main factor, but it hardly helps turn people into well-adjusted human beings.

Nothing will help anyone become well-adjusted. There will always be flaws.

[Ripoll]

Everyone has a voice and everyone has the right to be heard. Though I suppose if this whole collar thing we're only allowed for children 4 and under it would be fine.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Everyone has a voice and everyone has the right to be heard. Though I suppose if this whole collar thing we're only allowed for children 4 and under it would be fine.

Because, of course, child abuse is not a thing.

[Ripoll]

Everyone has a voice and everyone has the right to be heard. Though I suppose if this whole collar thing we're only allowed for children 4 and under it would be fine.

Because, of course, child abuse is not a thing.

They said it would be safely applied and it's not a shock collar