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NationStates' Transgender Thread

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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:03 am

Nature-Spirits wrote:In other news, today in my Theory of Knowledge class the teacher asked us about the kinds of lenses through which we view the world, and how these lenses affect our knowledge and perception of reality. People suggested things such as religion, different branches of science, etc.

I suggested gender, because one of the things I've noticed since I started examining my gender identity is that my gender affects the way I think and react to my surroundings.

For instance, when I'm female I feel fairly comfortable looking at women's clothes in the store (there's some apprehension, of course, but I think that's something that affects most trans people when shopping for clothes -- especially when we're worried about whether or not we pass), while when I'm male I feel embarrassed and uncomfortable going into the women's section of the store. The opposite is also true: when I'm female, I try to avoid the men's clothing section of the store, while when I'm male, I enjoy looking at men's clothes.

Another example is that when I'm female, I find that I'm more likely to cry during a sad movie than when I'm male. (Not that I mean to sound sexist -- I'm just saying it how it is, and that's my personal experience.) I'm also more self-conscious about my body and "being beautiful" when I'm female than when I'm any other gender. (I also care about my appearance when I'm my other genders -- for instance, I like to accentuate my masculine features when I'm male, and no matter my gender I care about looking presentable -- but I'm more worried about it when I'm female, to the point where I sometimes get quite anxious about it.)

There are other examples I could come up with, but I think you get the point.

So, anyway, how do you guys/gals/peeps feel that your gender affects the way you perceive yourself and the world around you, if at all? I have to say, I'm curious.

All sorts of weird things happen to me. (Sadly enough, I don't get many personality changes due to gender. Maybe what I perceive to be maleness, femaleness, etc. are just drops of gender into a world that is so neutrois, that they appear like full versions of the spectrum? Maybe that is a recent development? Explanation ahead.)

Before realizing I am non-binary (most particularly after I got fat again, ages 15-18), I used to feel so dysphoric that I felt terrible with 'fronting' (more like chameleoning, but still) as anything too more feminine than androgynous, like something was lacking in me and everybody would have the right to look weird, I felt like a joke. I dreamed of looking feminine but always felt I couldn't with my present body. I kind of repressed this a lot, and at first, since I lack most traditional womanly 'qualities', I thought describing my gender as mostly floating in a partially neutral but also weirdly masculine stage would best describe who I am as a person in comparison to the rest of the world. It also reflected how I believe others would see me.

This started to change at age 18, first at accepting my gender expression doesn't mean jack shit about who I am on the inside, then about how I'm allowed to be anything I want to and it not invalidate me, added to not feeling so bad about my own body being not culturally acceptable and finally understand that our sense of aesthetics is relative (even though I indeed find my culture's ideal to be sexy, but whatevs), and now I don't get anything.

I always thought true comfort would be passing as female whenever I wanted, but now I don't have this necessity anymore. I feel like being read as a gender that isn't mine will always be a reality, and that nothing about it will [or should] ever satisfy me, so I now have wishes about other people's thinking rather than myself. I feel really bad when I'm de-legitimized, like very very anxious, and it does reflect weird tendencies within me that have been happening since I'm at least pre-teen, but to me being read as the gender I'm most sexually attracted to (what is truly looking neutral? aren't all people unique, body-wise? my gender is based around there being a sole, individual me, with a unique sense of psyche and unique viewpoint due to past experience; nothing about me has the right to be called male, I am here and this is all just mine, not some arbitrary grouping's, it's male because people decide it's an easy classification system but 'from now on I shall question it, too') always felt secondary in comparison to other instances I felt insecure about.

That is, being fat and having skin characteristics typical of fat people felt bad because I thought being read as the mocked kind of male was something that erased me a lot more than just being another kid. This couldn't be farther from the truth, as all non-binary people have it fucked by what surrounds them, and body positiveness should be here for everyone.

I now am using a gay/sexy undercut/chanel, it is the first time in my life due to my own will and the first time in many years that I got it, and I didn't and don't feel any bad about it. My longer hair was hard to take care of, and I wish luck, tolerance and understanding for those kids who wish to grow theirs because they feel terrible about what is forced upon them. Because those forcible things to create a dichotomy were what bred inside my head an insecurity in the first place, and without it, I wouldn't feel so wrong. Now I thought it was appropriate to make official that I'm about to change my life, as Coco Chanel once said is what happens in the life of a woman when they take such a decision.

I love being around people who are positive about it, because it is really important, and I feel like that, in spite of all the hassle, without others around, I would perhaps still have a very rough experience.

But in fact, I once hated my body a lot, and this feeling of relatively inexplicable comfort with my own self even brings a small amount of paranoia. I feel like my neutroisness has been so concrete and so empowered that maybe I'm losing who I usually was gender-wise. I know people laugh at tucutes here and that thinking about gender too much is seen as a kind of unhealthy navel-gazing, but I've been honestly afraid I can't pangender anymore, not because my gender is delicate, as I once thought it was when it suddenly disappeared with sudden kisses of agenderness, but because it has become... Oh, I prefer to not even imagine it enough to put into words, because the whole stuff is actually sensitive and easily affected by how I feel and what I believe it and myself to be. (So maybe the paranoia itself has been creating it, like a feedback.) >.<

More to the point, I'm always partially pangendering even when I'm just the usual neutrois me, and always partially neutrois even when I'm pangendering. Not exactly like an ouroboros (even though IT IS what the ouroboros is supposed to represent), but rather that they are the seed of one another, very strongly connected, and now I'm not really feeling it. I know it's here, it actually is responsive to my concerns/emotions, not only now but all over it while I wrote this block of text and edited some parts, but lots of things feel conflicting/weaker. It's not as tied to my personal comfort, and since I don't feel as strongly about it, it also doesn't feel strongly about me.

It's a very complicated gender because it recently stopped altogether from affecting me in the least, it doesn't say a word or waves hi, it's just there, being directly affected by me and the world around me. Perhaps I should anthropomorphize it so I can better wrap my head around... ou? Or is that too mogai-like? :P
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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Nature-Spirits
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Postby Nature-Spirits » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:21 am

Grenartia wrote:Being closeted, non-binary, and rather manly-looking (especially since the people I'm now living with refuse to allow me to keep my hair long like it was before), I get those feelings, too.

You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.

Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith.
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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:26 am

Nature-Spirits wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Being closeted, non-binary, and rather manly-looking (especially since the people I'm now living with refuse to allow me to keep my hair long like it was before), I get those feelings, too.

You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.

I've always wanted chanel, really. I thought it was the standard of chic.

The chanel I am using is rather unfeminine but... I think it fits my face and that's what I'm glad about right now. xD
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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Nature-Spirits
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Postby Nature-Spirits » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:41 am

Edgy Opinions wrote:All sorts of weird things happen to me. (Sadly enough, I don't get many personality changes due to gender. Maybe what I perceive to be maleness, femaleness, etc. are just drops of gender into a world that is so neutrois, that they appear like full versions of the spectrum? Maybe that is a recent development? Explanation ahead.)

Before realizing I am non-binary (most particularly after I got fat again, ages 15-18), I used to feel so dysphoric that I felt terrible with 'fronting' (more like chameleoning, but still) as anything too more feminine than androgynous, like something was lacking in me and everybody would have the right to look weird, I felt like a joke. I dreamed of looking feminine but always felt I couldn't with my present body. I kind of repressed this a lot, and at first, since I lack most traditional womanly 'qualities', I thought describing my gender as mostly floating in a partially neutral but also weirdly masculine stage would best describe who I am as a person in comparison to the rest of the world. It also reflected how I believe others would see me.

This started to change at age 18, first at accepting my gender expression doesn't mean jack shit about who I am on the inside, then about how I'm allowed to be anything I want to and it not invalidate me, added to not feeling so bad about my own body being not culturally acceptable and finally understand that our sense of aesthetics is relative (even though I indeed find my culture's ideal to be sexy, but whatevs), and now I don't get anything.

I always thought true comfort would be passing as female whenever I wanted, but now I don't have this necessity anymore. I feel like being read as a gender that isn't mine will always be a reality, and that nothing about it will [or should] ever satisfy me, so I now have wishes about other people's thinking rather than myself. I feel really bad when I'm de-legitimized, like very very anxious, and it does reflect weird tendencies within me that have been happening since I'm at least pre-teen, but to me being read as the gender I'm most sexually attracted to (what is truly looking neutral? aren't all people unique, body-wise? my gender is based around there being a sole, individual me, with a unique sense of psyche and unique viewpoint due to past experience; nothing about me has the right to be called male, I am here and this is all just mine, not some arbitrary grouping's, it's male because people decide it's an easy classification system but 'from now on I shall question it, too') always felt secondary in comparison to other instances I felt insecure about.

That is, being fat and having skin characteristics typical of fat people felt bad because I thought being read as the mocked kind of male was something that erased me a lot more than just being another kid. This couldn't be farther from the truth, as all non-binary people have it fucked by what surrounds them, and body positiveness should be here for everyone.

I now am using a gay/sexy undercut/chanel, it is the first time in my life due to my own will and the first time in many years that I got it, and I didn't and don't feel any bad about it. My longer hair was hard to take care of, and I wish luck, tolerance and understanding for those kids who wish to grow theirs because they feel terrible about what is forced upon them. Because those forcible things to create a dichotomy were what bred inside my head an insecurity in the first place, and without it, I wouldn't feel so wrong. Now I thought it was appropriate to make official that I'm about to change my life, as Coco Chanel once said is what happens in the life of a woman when they take such a decision.

I love being around people who are positive about it, because it is really important, and I feel like that, in spite of all the hassle, without others around, I would perhaps still have a very rough experience.

But in fact, I once hated my body a lot, and this feeling of relatively inexplicable comfort with my own self even brings a small amount of paranoia. I feel like my neutroisness has been so concrete and so empowered that maybe I'm losing who I usually was gender-wise. I know people laugh at tucutes here and that thinking about gender too much is seen as a kind of unhealthy navel-gazing, but I've been honestly afraid I can't pangender anymore, not because my gender is delicate, as I once thought it was when it suddenly disappeared with sudden kisses of agenderness, but because it has become... Oh, I prefer to not even imagine it enough to put into words, because the whole stuff is actually sensitive and easily affected by how I feel and what I believe it and myself to be. (So maybe the paranoia itself has been creating it, like a feedback.) >.<

More to the point, I'm always partially pangendering even when I'm just the usual neutrois me, and always partially neutrois even when I'm pangendering. Not exactly like an ouroboros (even though IT IS what the ouroboros is supposed to represent), but rather that they are the seed of one another, very strongly connected, and now I'm not really feeling it. I know it's here, it actually is responsive to my concerns/emotions, not only now but all over it while I wrote this block of text and edited some parts, but lots of things feel conflicting/weaker. It's not as tied to my personal comfort, and since I don't feel as strongly about it, it also doesn't feel strongly about me.

It's a very complicated gender because it recently stopped altogether from affecting me in the least, it doesn't say a word or waves hi, it's just there, being directly affected by me and the world around me. Perhaps I should anthropomorphize it so I can better wrap my head around... ou? Or is that too mogai-like? :P

Thanks for sharing this. Gender is complicated, and ever since I determined my gender identity and I've grown more confident in it, I find myself constantly analysing and questioning my gender. Before I figured it all out, I never really paid too much attention to it, and I would just move in and out of genders without realising it (though looking back on my past with my current knowledge, I recognise that it's been happening all my life); now, though, I find myself wondering, "What's my gender today? Am I a boy? A girl? Somewhere in between? None of the above?" on pretty much a daily basis. I've even considered starting a journal of sorts to try to figure out some trends in my gender, but I'm not sure if that's just me wanting to overanalyse everything or if it's something that would legitimately be useful to me.
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith.
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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:02 am

Nature-Spirits wrote:Thanks for sharing this. Gender is complicated, and ever since I determined my gender identity and I've grown more confident in it, I find myself constantly analysing and questioning my gender. Before I figured it all out, I never really paid too much attention to it, and I would just move in and out of genders without realising it (though looking back on my past with my current knowledge, I recognise that it's been happening all my life); now, though, I find myself wondering, "What's my gender today? Am I a boy? A girl? Somewhere in between? None of the above?" on pretty much a daily basis. I've even considered starting a journal of sorts to try to figure out some trends in my gender, but I'm not sure if that's just me wanting to overanalyse everything or if it's something that would legitimately be useful to me.

I think it's normal to want to 'overanalyze' it because as much as many people might apply their experiences to other and thus deny what others think as just being exaggerated, I think gender is very likely a very important part of who we are and how we see ourselves in many cases, and often we realize it only late in life, so that we might want to not lose more time with detaching ourselves from the concept.

And I think this is true, because only ourselves can really determine how much is it important or not to us. I don't have much of a point in trying to understand my gender because the neutroisness is really static and easy, and the other part is so dynamic that it'd be tiresome to catalog its characteristics, aside not feeling stuff spontaneously, but for you, it can always be fun. You're the one who needs to be certain about it. x)
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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Postby Grenartia » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:26 pm

Nature-Spirits wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Being closeted, non-binary, and rather manly-looking (especially since the people I'm now living with refuse to allow me to keep my hair long like it was before), I get those feelings, too.

You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.

Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.


I did, too. But I'm currently living with my mom's mother and stepfather, who are pretty authoritarian, and all that bullshit.

And yes, short hair does feel wrong.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:14 pm

...what option would I put if I just reject the concept of gender altogether?
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:15 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:...what option would I put if I just reject the concept of gender altogether?

For the poll, other.
For here, What your opinion is.
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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:15 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:...what option would I put if I just reject the concept of gender altogether?

What is a concept of gender? The fact that it is constructed doesn't mean it isn't real. That'd be like saying language doesn't convey meaning because the sounds and/or signs we use to convey the message are arbitrarily placed.

I suppose other, though.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:18 pm

Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:...what option would I put if I just reject the concept of gender altogether?

For the poll, other.
For here, What your opinion is.


Thanks. :hug:

Um. Opinions. I don't really have a problem with people self-identifying as a particular gender, because that is their conscious choice, but I think the concepts of other people defining one's gender or of mandatory roles for any gender are just stupid. I personally reject any gender because I see them as neat little boxes people like to fit into when, in reality, no one fits into them like that.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:21 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:...what option would I put if I just reject the concept of gender altogether?

What is a concept of gender? The fact that it is constructed doesn't mean it isn't real. That'd be like saying language doesn't convey meaning because the sounds and/or signs we use to convey the message are arbitrarily placed.

I suppose other, though.


I usually describe it as "I act how I feel personally and do what I think is normal, with zero regard to what is considered "male", "female" or whatever."

I don't mind other people identifying with whatever gender they please, but I see all gender as unnecessary for my life.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:29 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:Thanks. :hug:

Um. Opinions. I don't really have a problem with people self-identifying as a particular gender, because that is their conscious choice, but I think the concepts of other people defining one's gender or of mandatory roles for any gender are just stupid. I personally reject any gender because I see them as neat little boxes people like to fit into when, in reality, no one fits into them like that.

So you mean that gender doesn't make sense because people make definitions about the nature of individual identities that supposedly should hold truth about everyone?

Hmm, I feel slightly like that, but it becomes really easy when we can define what these identities mean to ourselves and how they help us being comfortable, often in the sense of being acknowledged by others, instead of just following prevailing conceptions about it because that has to be followed or else reality shatters.

I get what you would mean about it still not making sense to have arbitrary groups of people being a reference to indicate which group you belong to, though - I can flux to agender, after all, aside my dominant form being the neutrois sib of you people.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:30 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Edgy Opinions wrote:What is a concept of gender? The fact that it is constructed doesn't mean it isn't real. That'd be like saying language doesn't convey meaning because the sounds and/or signs we use to convey the message are arbitrarily placed.

I suppose other, though.

I usually describe it as "I act how I feel personally and do what I think is normal, with zero regard to what is considered "male", "female" or whatever."

I don't mind other people identifying with whatever gender they please, but I see all gender as unnecessary for my life.

It indeed has zero use bar the psychological one that blooms "out of nowhere". Which is why it's often very hard to explain to others how important it might be.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:37 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:So you mean that gender doesn't make sense because people make definitions about the nature of individual identities that supposedly should hold truth about everyone?


Yes. Gender makes a person less of an individual. I prefer to be known as me, not as "that guy", or "a dude" or any other label that presupposes at least half of my identity if not more.

Hmm, I feel slightly like that, but it becomes really easy when we can define what these identities mean to ourselves and how they help us being comfortable, often in the sense of being acknowledged by others, instead of just following prevailing conceptions about it because that has to be followed or else reality shatters.

I get what you would mean about it still not making sense to have arbitrary groups of people being a reference to indicate which group you belong to, though - I can flux to agender, after all, aside my dominant form being the neutrois sib of you people.


Like I said, I don't care if other people do what they want, but I dislike that gender is so commonly used to smash an individual's desires because that would be too effeminate or masculine.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:42 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:Like I said, I don't care if other people do what they want, but I dislike that gender is so commonly used to smash an individual's desires because that would be too effeminate or masculine.

So you dislike gender roles/stereotypes and not gender identity is a way to put it?
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:51 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:
The New Sea Territory wrote:Like I said, I don't care if other people do what they want, but I dislike that gender is so commonly used to smash an individual's desires because that would be too effeminate or masculine.

So you dislike gender roles/stereotypes and not gender identity is a way to put it?


Yeah pretty much.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
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"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
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Nature-Spirits
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Postby Nature-Spirits » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:30 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Nature-Spirits wrote:You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.

Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.


I did, too. But I'm currently living with my mom's mother and stepfather, who are pretty authoritarian, and all that bullshit.

And yes, short hair does feel wrong.

That sucks. I hope your situation gets better soon. :hug:

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:For the poll, other.
For here, What your opinion is.


Thanks. :hug:

Um. Opinions. I don't really have a problem with people self-identifying as a particular gender, because that is their conscious choice, but I think the concepts of other people defining one's gender or of mandatory roles for any gender are just stupid. I personally reject any gender because I see them as neat little boxes people like to fit into when, in reality, no one fits into them like that.

You seem to be conflating gender identity and gender roles/stereotypes. Personally, I find prescribed gender roles/stereotypes to be bullshit (much like you seem to), but I think that gender is an important part of how we see ourselves and how we interact with the world (though this is less true for agender people). (I think it's also worth noting that gender isn't a conscious choice. I suppose that acknowledging your gender is a choice, but it's a healthy one.)
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:35 pm

Nature-Spirits wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I did, too. But I'm currently living with my mom's mother and stepfather, who are pretty authoritarian, and all that bullshit.

And yes, short hair does feel wrong.

That sucks. I hope your situation gets better soon. :hug:

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Thanks. :hug:

Um. Opinions. I don't really have a problem with people self-identifying as a particular gender, because that is their conscious choice, but I think the concepts of other people defining one's gender or of mandatory roles for any gender are just stupid. I personally reject any gender because I see them as neat little boxes people like to fit into when, in reality, no one fits into them like that.

You seem to be conflating gender identity and gender roles/stereotypes. Personally, I find prescribed gender roles/stereotypes to be bullshit (much like you seem to), but I think that gender is an important part of how we see ourselves and how we interact with the world (though this is less true for agender people). (I think it's also worth noting that gender isn't a conscious choice. I suppose that acknowledging your gender is a choice, but it's a healthy one.)


:hug: Thanks. Hopefully, I can last long enough to get a job, license, and car. And that'll be enough for me to start looking for a place to move into, out of here.

Also, totally backing you up on the difference between gender identity and gender roles.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
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Libronyscien
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Founded: Dec 23, 2014
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Postby Libronyscien » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:41 pm

Nature-Spirits wrote:Here's another article denouncing the gossip surrounding Bruce Jenner, that I think really gets to the core of the issue. It would be nice if this trend of people realising that it isn't and shouldn't be some huge scandal continued, and the tabloids got the hint.

I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

(That said, I do think that these sorts of things reveal the way our society thinks, and it is important for there to be discussion on that.)



In other news, today in my Theory of Knowledge class the teacher asked us about the kinds of lenses through which we view the world, and how these lenses affect our knowledge and perception of reality. People suggested things such as religion, different branches of science, etc.

I suggested gender, because one of the things I've noticed since I started examining my gender identity is that my gender affects the way I think and react to my surroundings.

For instance, when I'm female I feel fairly comfortable looking at women's clothes in the store (there's some apprehension, of course, but I think that's something that affects most trans people when shopping for clothes -- especially when we're worried about whether or not we pass), while when I'm male I feel embarrassed and uncomfortable going into the women's section of the store. The opposite is also true: when I'm female, I try to avoid the men's clothing section of the store, while when I'm male, I enjoy looking at men's clothes.

Another example is that when I'm female, I find that I'm more likely to cry during a sad movie than when I'm male. (Not that I mean to sound sexist -- I'm just saying it how it is, and that's my personal experience.) I'm also more self-conscious about my body and "being beautiful" when I'm female than when I'm any other gender. (I also care about my appearance when I'm my other genders -- for instance, I like to accentuate my masculine features when I'm male, and no matter my gender I care about looking presentable -- but I'm more worried about it when I'm female, to the point where I sometimes get quite anxious about it.)

There are other examples I could come up with, but I think you get the point.

So, anyway, how do you guys/gals/peeps feel that your gender affects the way you perceive yourself and the world around you, if at all? I have to say, I'm curious.

I think that as a guy, I should be kind and courteous to everyone, within reason, be honest, within reason, and I should just generally be a good person, within reason. Monocle, suit, mustache, fancy demeanor optional.
For: LGBTQ+, Choice, Equalist1,
Against: Racism2, Sexism, Homophobia, Heterophobia3, Feminazi.
1 If you have a problem with this then find a way to deal with it.
2 Some forms of racism are acceptable in my opinion. I hate the marathon race so much.
3 This is a joke.

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Libronyscien
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Postby Libronyscien » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:11 pm

Nature-Spirits wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Being closeted, non-binary, and rather manly-looking (especially since the people I'm now living with refuse to allow me to keep my hair long like it was before), I get those feelings, too.

You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.

Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.

Apologies but I seem to have forgotten what you identify as.

I like to have my hair be in the 2-4 inches range.
For: LGBTQ+, Choice, Equalist1,
Against: Racism2, Sexism, Homophobia, Heterophobia3, Feminazi.
1 If you have a problem with this then find a way to deal with it.
2 Some forms of racism are acceptable in my opinion. I hate the marathon race so much.
3 This is a joke.

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Libronyscien
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Founded: Dec 23, 2014
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Postby Libronyscien » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:11 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:
Nature-Spirits wrote:You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.

I've always wanted chanel, really. I thought it was the standard of chic.

The chanel I am using is rather unfeminine but... I think it fits my face and that's what I'm glad about right now. xD

Chanel?
For: LGBTQ+, Choice, Equalist1,
Against: Racism2, Sexism, Homophobia, Heterophobia3, Feminazi.
1 If you have a problem with this then find a way to deal with it.
2 Some forms of racism are acceptable in my opinion. I hate the marathon race so much.
3 This is a joke.

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Libronyscien
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Founded: Dec 23, 2014
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Postby Libronyscien » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:21 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Edgy Opinions wrote:So you mean that gender doesn't make sense because people make definitions about the nature of individual identities that supposedly should hold truth about everyone?


Yes. Gender makes a person less of an individual. I prefer to be known as me, not as "that guy", or "a dude" or any other label that presupposes at least half of my identity if not more.

Hmm, I feel slightly like that, but it becomes really easy when we can define what these identities mean to ourselves and how they help us being comfortable, often in the sense of being acknowledged by others, instead of just following prevailing conceptions about it because that has to be followed or else reality shatters.

I get what you would mean about it still not making sense to have arbitrary groups of people being a reference to indicate which group you belong to, though - I can flux to agender, after all, aside my dominant form being the neutrois sib of you people.


Like I said, I don't care if other people do what they want, but I dislike that gender is so commonly used to smash an individual's desires because that would be too effeminate or masculine.

I don't know how to say this without perceiving it to be offensive by my subjective standards so I'll be somewhat blunt, I think. Are you going to turn into one of those people who say that they don't want to be defined as human?
For: LGBTQ+, Choice, Equalist1,
Against: Racism2, Sexism, Homophobia, Heterophobia3, Feminazi.
1 If you have a problem with this then find a way to deal with it.
2 Some forms of racism are acceptable in my opinion. I hate the marathon race so much.
3 This is a joke.

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Edgy Opinions
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Founded: Dec 31, 2014
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:39 pm

Libronyscien wrote:Chanel?

Do you know those short haircuts for women that have a characteristic belle époque-ish feel to them, as if a bob cut but longer?

https://www.google.com.br/search?q=chanel+haircut&safe=off&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bJ7SVLy2E_C0sATbnIKwCg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=667

In my case, it is a disconnected undercut on the sides and the back, while I have a very long fringe a lot like Zac Efron's hair when he had it longer, but even more so, so that it reaches my chin on both sides. (Except not really, because my hair is straight when wet but very wavy when dry, so it reduced a bit in size ever since I cut it so it's nothing like those Bieber-like/emo-like fringes.) Google Images doesn't help a lot to understand the concept of ~male chanel~ styles.

It's a lot like this: http://www.hairfinder.com/hairstyles1/curly-top-hairstyle.jpg But I didn't disconnect the top and the fringe, instead just kept it.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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Nature-Spirits
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Founded: Feb 25, 2011
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Postby Nature-Spirits » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:15 pm

Libronyscien wrote:
Nature-Spirits wrote:You had to cut your hair? Dx But I liked your hair....

Disclaimer: I saw the photo you posted of yourself in 2014. I am not a creepy stalker.

Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if someone wouldn't let me keep my hair long. Short hair would just feel... wrong.

Apologies but I seem to have forgotten what you identify as.

I like to have my hair be in the 2-4 inches range.

No problem. I'm genderfluid (my gender changes around a lot, for no apparent reason).

My hair at this point goes just an inch or two past the tops of my shoulders. The last time I had it fairly short was about a year and a half ago (and even then it was about 3-4 inches long, and that was the shortest I'd had it since I was 12). It's mostly straight, but somewhat wav, and dark blond.
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith.
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Libronyscien
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Posts: 571
Founded: Dec 23, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Libronyscien » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:23 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:
Libronyscien wrote:Chanel?

Do you know those short haircuts for women that have a characteristic belle époque-ish feel to them, as if a bob cut but longer?

https://www.google.com.br/search?q=chanel+haircut&safe=off&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bJ7SVLy2E_C0sATbnIKwCg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=667

In my case, it is a disconnected undercut on the sides and the back, while I have a very long fringe a lot like Zac Efron's hair when he had it longer, but even more so, so that it reaches my chin on both sides. (Except not really, because my hair is straight when wet but very wavy when dry, so it reduced a bit in size ever since I cut it so it's nothing like those Bieber-like/emo-like fringes.) Google Images doesn't help a lot to understand the concept of ~male chanel~ styles.

It's a lot like this: http://www.hairfinder.com/hairstyles1/curly-top-hairstyle.jpg But I didn't disconnect the top and the fringe, instead just kept it.

Oh. Wait, people care about what other people do with their hair?
Why am I not surprised? Stupid human race.
For: LGBTQ+, Choice, Equalist1,
Against: Racism2, Sexism, Homophobia, Heterophobia3, Feminazi.
1 If you have a problem with this then find a way to deal with it.
2 Some forms of racism are acceptable in my opinion. I hate the marathon race so much.
3 This is a joke.

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