NationStates' Transgender Thread

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Sadly, certain branches of the hilariously schismatic and feud-ridden beast that is organized and manifesto-publishing feminism are hideously transphobic. There's not much to be done about it except wait for them to die, and find less bigoted feminist speakers in the meantime.

In happier news, Magic: The Gathering's writers published a thing identifying one of their characters as trans, which is pretty cool. Alesha is maybe the fourth or fifth trans character I've run across in fantasy in two decades of reading (the others are Wanda from Neil Gaiman's Sandman; a secondary character I can't recall the name of from Mary Gentle's Ilario: The Lion's Eye (a novel which also features a main character who's intersex), a character from Mary Gentle's The Black Opera; a character from Dragon Soul by Jaida Jones and Laura Bennett; and I think I'm forgetting another somewhere ...).

Does anyone know any other trans characters in fantasy literature? They're obviously thin on the ground.

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

Most fantasy also includes a lot of elements of Greek myth, and the ancient Greeks were rather fond of homosexuality and of imagining new and different genders for themselves.

Most fantasy writers aren't really interested in the less pleasant aspects of medieval and ancient eras, like crippling disease, staggering poverty, and smothering theocracy. They want to envision a world of ideals, and it shouldn't be surprising when those ideals get updated over time.

[Fabulous Rainicorns]

Sadly, certain branches of the hilariously schismatic and feud-ridden beast that is organized and manifesto-publishing feminism are hideously transphobic. There's not much to be done about it except wait for them to die, and find less bigoted feminist speakers in the meantime.

In happier news, Magic: The Gathering's writers published a thing identifying one of their characters as trans, which is pretty cool. Alesha is maybe the fourth or fifth trans character I've run across in fantasy in two decades of reading (the others are Wanda from Neil Gaiman's Sandman; a secondary character I can't recall the name of from Mary Gentle's Ilario: The Lion's Eye (a novel which also features a main character who's intersex), a character from Mary Gentle's The Black Opera; a character from Dragon Soul by Jaida Jones and Laura Bennett; and I think I'm forgetting another somewhere ...).

Does anyone know any other trans characters in fantasy literature? They're obviously thin on the ground.

I used to play MtG, but I don't anymore, but I'll have to get my dad to get me a copy of that card, because that's really awesome.

[Threlizdun]

Sadly, certain branches of the hilariously schismatic and feud-ridden beast that is organized and manifesto-publishing feminism are hideously transphobic. There's not much to be done about it except wait for them to die, and find less bigoted feminist speakers in the meantime.

In happier news, Magic: The Gathering's writers published a thing identifying one of their characters as trans, which is pretty cool. Alesha is maybe the fourth or fifth trans character I've run across in fantasy in two decades of reading (the others are Wanda from Neil Gaiman's Sandman; a secondary character I can't recall the name of from Mary Gentle's Ilario: The Lion's Eye (a novel which also features a main character who's intersex), a character from Mary Gentle's The Black Opera; a character from Dragon Soul by Jaida Jones and Laura Bennett; and I think I'm forgetting another somewhere ...).

Does anyone know any other trans characters in fantasy literature? They're obviously thin on the ground.

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

Different fantasy RP's take place in different world's. There were plenty of Non-Western European societies that accepted trans people during that time, so it isn't like it's that difficult to believe. Western European aesthetics doesn't mean you need to also implement medieval Christian morals into the setting.

[Grenartia]

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

Different fantasy RP's take place in different world's. There were plenty of Non-Western European societies that accepted trans people during that time, so it isn't like it's that difficult to believe. Western European aesthetics doesn't mean you need to also implement medieval Christian morals into the setting.

Indeed.

[Libronyscien]

So, what are everybody's thoughts on the Bruce Jenner situation?

? Who is that and what's his problem?

[Edgy Opinions]

So, what are everybody's thoughts on the Bruce Jenner situation?

? Who is that and what's his problem?

The ex-stepparent of Kim Kardashian if I got that right.

They just happened to appear around with makeup and women's clothes and now there's questions about whether or not they're a trans woman.

Nevermind people already talking of "sex changes" ( ) but still using male pronouns if they're so sure of that...

[Desperate Measures]

? Who is that and what's his problem?

The ex-stepparent of Kim Kardashian if I got that right.

They just happened to appear around with makeup and women's clothes and now there's questions about whether or not they're a trans woman.

Nevermind people already talking of "sex changes" ( ) but still using male pronouns if they're so sure of that...

I can't imagine going through the process of figuring it all out while in the spotlight like that. I have no real opinion on Bruce Jenner, though. Maybe they like it?

[Nature-Spirits]

? Who is that and what's his problem?

The ex-stepparent of Kim Kardashian if I got that right.

They just happened to appear around with makeup and women's clothes and now there's questions about whether or not they're a trans woman.

Nevermind people already talking of "sex changes" ( ) but still using male pronouns if they're so sure of that...

No, I think they're still married to the Kardashian matriarch.

I just wish the media would make up their mind. If they're so certain that Bruce is a woman, then they should probably be using female pronouns. Using male pronouns implies that they're uncertain of Bruce's gender identity, but all the tabloids are quoting these apparently-reliable "sources" as saying that Bruce is a woman and seem convinced of their being trans. What they say and the way they say it are incongruous.

[Nature-Spirits]

This pretty much sums up what I'm sure a lot of trans people are thinking right now.

[Xomic]

This pretty much sums up what I'm sure a lot of trans people are thinking right now.

MFW run-on sentence.

[Meryuma]

Sadly, certain branches of the hilariously schismatic and feud-ridden beast that is organized and manifesto-publishing feminism are hideously transphobic. There's not much to be done about it except wait for them to die, and find less bigoted feminist speakers in the meantime.

In happier news, Magic: The Gathering's writers published a thing identifying one of their characters as trans, which is pretty cool. Alesha is maybe the fourth or fifth trans character I've run across in fantasy in two decades of reading (the others are Wanda from Neil Gaiman's Sandman; a secondary character I can't recall the name of from Mary Gentle's Ilario: The Lion's Eye (a novel which also features a main character who's intersex), a character from Mary Gentle's The Black Opera; a character from Dragon Soul by Jaida Jones and Laura Bennett; and I think I'm forgetting another somewhere ...).

Does anyone know any other trans characters in fantasy literature? They're obviously thin on the ground.

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

Except gender variant people have existed throughout human history.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

Most fantasy also includes a lot of elements of Greek myth, and the ancient Greeks were rather fond of homosexuality and of imagining new and different genders for themselves.

Most fantasy writers aren't really interested in the less pleasant aspects of medieval and ancient eras, like crippling disease, staggering poverty, and smothering theocracy. They want to envision a world of ideals, and it shouldn't be surprising when those ideals get updated over time.

And thats another issue I have with a lot of fantasy too.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Eh...

If it exist fine, but if they're accepted in the story it seems weird, since fantasy is usually with a medieval aesthetic, and it breaks my S.o.D when people are progressive to how we perceive things.

Except gender variant people have existed throughout human history.

Read what I wrote -_-

[Edgy Opinions]

This pretty much sums up what I'm sure a lot of trans people are thinking right now.

"Genderqueerism"? Can't they just say "non-binary genders"? People don't know what to invent these days.

[The Nuclear Fist]

This pretty much sums up what I'm sure a lot of trans people are thinking right now.

"Genderqueerism"? Can't they just say "non-binary genders"? People don't know what to invent these days.

"Oi skipper, a terminal lack of self awareness spotted off the starboard bow."

[Grenartia]

"Genderqueerism"? Can't they just say "non-binary genders"? People don't know what to invent these days.

"Oi skipper, a terminal lack of self awareness spotted off the starboard bow."

That's one hell of a burn there.

[Grenartia]

This pretty much sums up what I'm sure a lot of trans people are thinking right now.

Yeah. Shared it on my FB, and a few fellow trans people agreed.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

Who's Bruce Jenner again?

[Nature-Spirits]

Who's Bruce Jenner again?

Google it. There are a million "news" articles on the topic right now.

[Edgy Opinions]

"Genderqueerism"? Can't they just say "non-binary genders"? People don't know what to invent these days.

"Oi skipper, a terminal lack of self awareness spotted off the starboard bow."

I don't invent unnecessary and politically problematic terms, but thanks.

[Libronyscien]

It has occurred to me that agender=not having a gender reminds me of the saying off is a channel.

[Grenartia]

I don't invent unnecessary and politically problematic terms,

Citation needed.

It has occurred to me that agender=not having a gender reminds me of the saying off is a channel.

Yeah, I've been thinking that myself.

[Nature-Spirits]

Here's another article denouncing the gossip surrounding Bruce Jenner, that I think really gets to the core of the issue. It would be nice if this trend of people realising that it isn't and shouldn't be some huge scandal continued, and the tabloids got the hint.

I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

(That said, I do think that these sorts of things reveal the way our society thinks, and it is important for there to be discussion on that.)

---

In other news, today in my Theory of Knowledge class the teacher asked us about the kinds of lenses through which we view the world, and how these lenses affect our knowledge and perception of reality. People suggested things such as religion, different branches of science, etc.

I suggested gender, because one of the things I've noticed since I started examining my gender identity is that my gender affects the way I think and react to my surroundings.

For instance, when I'm female I feel fairly comfortable looking at women's clothes in the store (there's some apprehension, of course, but I think that's something that affects most trans people when shopping for clothes -- especially when we're worried about whether or not we pass), while when I'm male I feel embarrassed and uncomfortable going into the women's section of the store. The opposite is also true: when I'm female, I try to avoid the men's clothing section of the store, while when I'm male, I enjoy looking at men's clothes.

Another example is that when I'm female, I find that I'm more likely to cry during a sad movie than when I'm male. (Not that I mean to sound sexist -- I'm just saying it how it is, and that's my personal experience.) I'm also more self-conscious about my body and "being beautiful" when I'm female than when I'm any other gender. (I also care about my appearance when I'm my other genders -- for instance, I like to accentuate my masculine features when I'm male, and no matter my gender I care about looking presentable -- but I'm more worried about it when I'm female, to the point where I sometimes get quite anxious about it.)

There are other examples I could come up with, but I think you get the point.

So, anyway, how do you guys/gals/peeps feel that your gender affects the way you perceive yourself and the world around you, if at all? I have to say, I'm curious.

[Grenartia]

Here's another article denouncing the gossip surrounding Bruce Jenner, that I think really gets to the core of the issue. It would be nice if this trend of people realising that it isn't and shouldn't be some huge scandal continued, and the tabloids got the hint.

I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

(That said, I do think that these sorts of things reveal the way our society thinks, and it is important for there to be discussion on that.)

---

In other news, today in my Theory of Knowledge class the teacher asked us about the kinds of lenses through which we view the world, and how these lenses affect our knowledge and perception of reality. People suggested things such as religion, different branches of science, etc.

I suggested gender, because one of the things I've noticed since I started examining my gender identity is that my gender affects the way I think and react to my surroundings.

For instance, when I'm female I feel fairly comfortable looking at women's clothes in the store (there's some apprehension, of course, but I think that's something that affects most trans people when shopping for clothes -- especially when we're worried about whether or not we pass), while when I'm male I feel embarrassed and uncomfortable going into the women's section of the store. The opposite is also true: when I'm female, I try to avoid the men's clothing section of the store, while when I'm male, I enjoy looking at men's clothes.

Another example is that when I'm female, I find that I'm more likely to cry during a sad movie than when I'm male. (Not that I mean to sound sexist -- I'm just saying it how it is, and that's my personal experience.) I'm also more self-conscious about my body and "being beautiful" when I'm female than when I'm any other gender. (I also care about my appearance when I'm my other genders -- for instance, I like to accentuate my masculine features when I'm male, and no matter my gender I care about looking presentable -- but I'm more worried about it when I'm female, to the point where I sometimes get quite anxious about it.)

There are other examples I could come up with, but I think you get the point.

So, anyway, how do you guys/gals/peeps feel that your gender affects the way you perceive yourself and the world around you, if at all? I have to say, I'm curious.

Being closeted, non-binary, and rather manly-looking (especially since the people I'm now living with refuse to allow me to keep my hair long like it was before), I get those feelings, too.