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NationStates' Transgender Thread

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Jute
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Postby Jute » Fri May 01, 2015 1:49 pm

Replevion wrote:
Jute wrote:Well, the person I was referring to told me they came to the conclusion that they are transgender as well, so I guess I have a different reason.


Heh, well, that would have increased my interest, but I'm pan, what can I say...

Nah, I haven't lost interest completely, but it still threw me off balance, since I was unsure which role to fill out now and whether I could fall in love with them a second time. Also, since character-wise we seem to be somewhat similar, it was what has made me question myself the most. Previously I had done it, too, but only for a short time. Now it seems to be staying and not going away.
Replevion wrote:
Jute wrote:Last night the "am I deluding myself" thing came up again, darn. It's kind of awkward and a bit embarrassing, because it was essentially "how do I know whether I really identify more as female because I truly feel like one (at least, a lot of the times) or just because a favorite fictional character, who I relate to much, is female?" Made me feel a bit like a fraud. :unsure:

[...]
The fact that I can look at these motivators square in the face does not lessen let alone negate the fact that I've felt female and wanted to live as a woman nearly my entire life. It also doesn't change anything about the fact that after transition, living full time and HRT I feel completely aligned now mentally and emotionally with my identity and expression and I'd rather die than go back. Indeed I'd say fundamentally, if transition fulfills a person and categorically makes their life better, what business is it of anybody "why" they transitioned?
[...]

I agree, though this is specifically the reason I'm not seriously considering any drastic changes (hormons or anything) at the moment. Namely, I can't really say whether or not it would actually make me feel happier. I actually don't really have much against my body, just feel that my mind and the way I feel about myself are unaligned with it, so more invasive procedures would be of questionable benefit for me, at the moment at least. I'll try to, like I said before, come across as more androgynous instead. :)
Also, just found this interesting quote here:
At one point, women were thought to lack a man’s sensitivity to truly appreciate a sunset or write poetry.
Really, I didn't know that :P Nowadays it seems to be the opposite.
Dyakovo wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Why not start now? Why can't we protect both at once?

Right now, trans equality is at about the same place that gay equality was in the 90s. Which is sad, really. And as we all know, justice delayed is justice denied. Love can't wait, but neither can trans peoples' bladders.

Eh... I wouldn't say it's "sad"... Definitely unfortunate for people who are trans, but a factor in acceptance is understanding and it is generally easier to understand homosexual attraction than it is gender identity.

We just need a good analogy to it, it shouldn't be that foreign of a concept :P
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Jute wrote:My parents are apparently much more understanding of gender issues than I thought they would be, yay :D Father at least still considers homosexuality "unnatural", but as someone with libertarian beliefs he'd tolerate it. And they said they never tried to enforce gender roles on me and understand that people are different. That makes me wonder where I acquired my own beliefs over what things are "for girls" and not fitting for me... School? TV?

Thanks for the reply! Interesting, I can relate to the second point, though I also had male role models, so maybe that's why it's so mixed for me. As for the third point, I absolutely did that, but unfortunately circumstances have changed :P


I ended up transgender mainly due to social alienation, porn, and the presence of a shared wardrobe in my room, so....

One of the things that really started this was how almost every time a study was reported and it said something like "men usually behave like this and that, and women differently" I often ended up finding out that my behavior mirrors the female one :P
Last edited by Jute on Fri May 01, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
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and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
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Replevion
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Postby Replevion » Fri May 01, 2015 2:11 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Jute wrote:My parents are apparently much more understanding of gender issues than I thought they would be, yay :D Father at least still considers homosexuality "unnatural", but as someone with libertarian beliefs he'd tolerate it. And they said they never tried to enforce gender roles on me and understand that people are different. That makes me wonder where I acquired my own beliefs over what things are "for girls" and not fitting for me... School? TV?

Thanks for the reply! Interesting, I can relate to the second point, though I also had male role models, so maybe that's why it's so mixed for me. As for the third point, I absolutely did that, but unfortunately circumstances have changed :P


I ended up transgender mainly due to social alienation, porn, and the presence of a shared wardrobe in my room, so....


Heh, well if we're being that honest, porn and the fact that I was aesthetically completely invisible as a male are ancillary reasons for me. And my undying hatred of pants and collared shirts. Sooooo many reasons...
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Liberonscien
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Postby Liberonscien » Fri May 01, 2015 5:09 pm

Replevion wrote:
Jute wrote:Last night the "am I deluding myself" thing came up again, darn. It's kind of awkward and a bit embarrassing, because it was essentially "how do I know whether I really identify more as female because I truly feel like one (at least, a lot of the times) or just because a favorite fictional character, who I relate to much, is female?" Made me feel a bit like a fraud. :unsure:


For some reason we as human beings have this impression that things we can't explain about ourselves are some how more valid, because if they can't be explained they must necessarily be innate and immutable, and therefore not "our fault" or "in our control".

Hence the whole "sexuality/gender is not a choice!" narrative. And while it gets me on a lot of people's bad sides in the LGBT community, I'm nonetheless a constructivist-leaning compatibilist in the constructivist-essentialist dichotomy of viewing personal gender development. I don't say categorically that gender cannot be innate, because I can't be other people and I must trust their judgment. But I can't say gender is always innate and immutable because I've seen cases where it wasn't, including my own.

I can tell you the three main catalysts for my gender dysphoria. In my early childhood (~4) all my neighbor's kids were girls and I thought they were cooler than me and I wanted to be like them, and that's when I first decided I wanted to be girl, a decision I've never reconsidered. My mother was a stronger and clearer role model for me growing up than my father was and that taught me to value and appreciate (and develop!) female perspective in a first person sense being modeled after her. (I was a homeschooled only child with few friends and rarely went out. 98% of the time I spent with another human being before my adulthood was spent with my mother, so it's unsurprising what deep impression she made on me in terms of modelling myself as a human being. Which is funny because superficially we're diametrically antithetical, but that's kind of a mother daughter stereotype too... oh the layers.) And lastly my dysphoria was thrown into overdrive when I basically fell in love with my male best friend and really deeply wanted to be his girlfriend. These are certainly not the only reasons, but they're the most significant.

The fact that I can look at these motivators square in the face does not lessen let alone negate the fact that I've felt female and wanted to live as a woman nearly my entire life. It also doesn't change anything about the fact that after transition, living full time and HRT I feel completely aligned now mentally and emotionally with my identity and expression and I'd rather die than go back. Indeed I'd say fundamentally, if transition fulfills a person and categorically makes their life better, what business is it of anybody "why" they transitioned?

Besides all that, I don't think that the 'gender/sexuality is not a choice!' argument is, if you'll excuse the pun, essential. If a society is as free, tolerant, and pluralistic as a society should be, why should it matter if somebody "merely" chooses to be gay or chooses to be the opposite gender or non-binary or whatever? The reason we've had to rely on gender essentialism is that bigots in our society don't want to accept having to treat anybody who doesn't conform with respect unless that lack of conformity is involuntary. That's bullshit, and we shouldn't accept that premise.

That last paragraph says something meaningful to me and I agree with it.
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Liberonscien
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Postby Liberonscien » Fri May 01, 2015 5:12 pm

Val Halla wrote:
Geanna wrote:
After you've fully healed - you will be able to like anyone else with little difference. I'd advise against sexual activity prior to that stage, but if it happens - I strongly recommend protection to avoid any serious complication.

Yeah, I here ya. Not sure where I'll get it done. I was told I can start as soon as I am legally able to, and the law is changing in that regard. So there's a chance I can get the surgery done before I get to the US. How much abuse can I expect it to take? Normal?

Abuse? It?
:?: :?: :?:
Do I want to know?
*thinks for a bit*
Yes. Yes I do.
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Liberonscien
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Postby Liberonscien » Fri May 01, 2015 5:13 pm

Auremena wrote:
Liberonscien wrote:Can we see a pic?
Not really, my phone is dead. Like, gonezo dead.
:(

Aww. Charge it. I want an update since your flag a while back.
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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Fri May 01, 2015 10:05 pm

Liberonscien wrote:
Val Halla wrote:Yeah, I here ya. Not sure where I'll get it done. I was told I can start as soon as I am legally able to, and the law is changing in that regard. So there's a chance I can get the surgery done before I get to the US. How much abuse can I expect it to take? Normal?

Abuse? It?
:?: :?: :?:
Do I want to know?
*thinks for a bit*
Yes. Yes I do.

*points down at my sig*
Yeah. I'm weird.
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Furry Alairia and Algeria
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Fri May 01, 2015 10:07 pm

Val Halla wrote:
Liberonscien wrote:Abuse? It?
:?: :?: :?:
Do I want to know?
*thinks for a bit*
Yes. Yes I do.

*points down at my sig*
Yeah. I'm weird.

You also have a link with NSFW imagery.
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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Fri May 01, 2015 10:09 pm

Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:
Val Halla wrote:*points down at my sig*
Yeah. I'm weird.

You also have a link with NSFW imagery.

What?
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Furry Alairia and Algeria
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Fri May 01, 2015 10:09 pm

Val Halla wrote:
Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:You also have a link with NSFW imagery.

What?

Masochistic link.
In memory of Dyakovo - may he never be forgotten - Дьяковожс ученик


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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Fri May 01, 2015 10:11 pm

Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:
Val Halla wrote:What?

Masochistic link.

It's Wikipedia, isn't it? I thought Wikipedia had rules on that too. :/
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Furry Alairia and Algeria
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Fri May 01, 2015 10:14 pm

Val Halla wrote:
Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:Masochistic link.

It's Wikipedia, isn't it? I thought Wikipedia had rules on that too. :/

Nope. All you need to do is take a stroll in Wikipedia's other side and you'll be wonder how much they have.
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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Fri May 01, 2015 10:15 pm

Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:
Val Halla wrote:It's Wikipedia, isn't it? I thought Wikipedia had rules on that too. :/

Nope. All you need to do is take a stroll in Wikipedia's other side and you'll be wonder how much they have.

Right. I'll check with the mods to be sure.
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Geanna
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Postby Geanna » Fri May 01, 2015 10:31 pm

Wow... This thread

134 pages
3,336 posts
41,960 views
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri May 01, 2015 11:56 pm

Geanna wrote:Wow... This thread

134 pages
3,336 posts
41,960 views


Number of awesome people: countless
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
The truth about kids transitioning.

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Geanna
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Postby Geanna » Sat May 02, 2015 1:09 am

Val Halla wrote:
Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:Masochistic link.

It's Wikipedia, isn't it? I thought Wikipedia had rules on that too. :/


Rules on what exactly?

>Is Editor<
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat May 02, 2015 1:11 am

Val Halla wrote:
Furry Alairia and Algeria wrote:Nope. All you need to do is take a stroll in Wikipedia's other side and you'll be wonder how much they have.

Right. I'll check with the mods to be sure.

Frankly ... :roll: So put an NSFW note next to the link to the WIki article on masochism.
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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Sat May 02, 2015 1:57 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Val Halla wrote:Right. I'll check with the mods to be sure.

Frankly ... :roll: So put an NSFW note next to the link to the WIki article on masochism.

Ah sorry Farm. On it.
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Auremena
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Postby Auremena » Sat May 02, 2015 2:44 am

Liberonscien wrote:
Auremena wrote:Not really, my phone is dead. Like, gonezo dead.
:(
Aww. Charge it. I want an update since your flag a while back.
No I mean like broken dead :'(
NS's aviation and train sabelotodo.
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Killdash, Firsthome, Coffee Cakes, SSC, GCoCS, Snowy, Val, Aeqy, and Replevion are my bitches.
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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Sat May 02, 2015 2:46 am

Auremena wrote:
Liberonscien wrote:Aww. Charge it. I want an update since your flag a while back.
No I mean like broken dead :'(

I'd offer to buy you a new one, but I can't.
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Liberonscien
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Postby Liberonscien » Sat May 02, 2015 2:58 am

Auremena wrote:
Liberonscien wrote:Aww. Charge it. I want an update since your flag a while back.
No I mean like broken dead :'(

Aww...
Sorry about that.
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Auremena
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Postby Auremena » Sat May 02, 2015 3:06 am

Val Halla wrote:
Auremena wrote:No I mean like broken dead :'(
I'd offer to buy you a new one, but I can't.
Hell I can barely afford my progesterone prescription, thankfully dad gave me a tenner before he left for "milk and things," but if I get the prescription, I won't be able to afford milk.
NS's aviation and train sabelotodo.
Post-left anarchist and sad about it.
Killdash, Firsthome, Coffee Cakes, SSC, GCoCS, Snowy, Val, Aeqy, and Replevion are my bitches.
Foot worshipper: Lutvikkia. Dakky's mom, I had her with Nana.
The female Jim Morrison; not as talented, but just as attractive and self destructive. The one true heir to the throne of the Lizard King.
Some poetry I write sometimes
Tearing the MBTA a new one since 2014. The MTA too since 2016. Cover the world in trains 2030
COYS!

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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Sat May 02, 2015 3:08 am

Auremena wrote:
Val Halla wrote:I'd offer to buy you a new one, but I can't.
Hell I can barely afford my progesterone prescription, thankfully dad gave me a tenner before he left for "milk and things," but if I get the prescription, I won't be able to afford milk.

That's bullshit. Why would they charge so much for something so essential to one's health… it boggles the mind. But weren't you on something already?
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Auremena
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Postby Auremena » Sat May 02, 2015 3:12 am

Val Halla wrote:
Auremena wrote:Hell I can barely afford my progesterone prescription, thankfully dad gave me a tenner before he left for "milk and things," but if I get the prescription, I won't be able to afford milk.
That's bullshit. Why would they charge so much for something so essential to one's health… it boggles the mind. But weren't you on something already?
$8...
That's not unreasonable, unless you're flat broke, dad won't help you, and desperate for a job and nobody besides insurance sales companies (which require you to be liscenced, a $300+ upfront cost,) seems to be interested in replying to my applications or inviting me back to second interviews.
NS's aviation and train sabelotodo.
Post-left anarchist and sad about it.
Killdash, Firsthome, Coffee Cakes, SSC, GCoCS, Snowy, Val, Aeqy, and Replevion are my bitches.
Foot worshipper: Lutvikkia. Dakky's mom, I had her with Nana.
The female Jim Morrison; not as talented, but just as attractive and self destructive. The one true heir to the throne of the Lizard King.
Some poetry I write sometimes
Tearing the MBTA a new one since 2014. The MTA too since 2016. Cover the world in trains 2030
COYS!

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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Sat May 02, 2015 3:20 am

Auremena wrote:
Val Halla wrote:That's bullshit. Why would they charge so much for something so essential to one's health… it boggles the mind. But weren't you on something already?
$8...
That's not unreasonable, unless you're flat broke, dad won't help you, and desperate for a job and nobody besides insurance sales companies (which require you to be liscenced, a $300+ upfront cost,) seems to be interested in replying to my applications or inviting me back to second interviews.

I think they should really take financial difficulties into account.

That rises a concern of mine. I'll be on HRT as soon as the law changes (3 months or so I'm told), so I guess my worry is my medical history while moving to the states. No idea what'll hàppen.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~
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Auremena
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Postby Auremena » Sat May 02, 2015 3:28 am

Val Halla wrote:
Auremena wrote:$8...
That's not unreasonable, unless you're flat broke, dad won't help you, and desperate for a job and nobody besides insurance sales companies (which require you to be liscenced, a $300+ upfront cost,) seems to be interested in replying to my applications or inviting me back to second interviews.
I think they should really take financial difficulties into account.

That rises a concern of mine. I'll be on HRT as soon as the law changes (3 months or so I'm told), so I guess my worry is my medical history while moving to the states. No idea what'll hàppen.
Insurance companies don't care.

Yeah, you'll have to pay an outrageous amount unless you're insured. Health insurance is about the wackiest thing that anyone from places with a NHS or who grew up in the military (and thus had all healthcare covered for you via military facilities,or if one wasn't available, an off base facility) so definitely learn up about how insane it can be.
I'll soon be discussing new insurance and coverage for surgery with a representative from the clinic I go to, I'l have more info on what it means, in Massachusetts in particular, after that.
NS's aviation and train sabelotodo.
Post-left anarchist and sad about it.
Killdash, Firsthome, Coffee Cakes, SSC, GCoCS, Snowy, Val, Aeqy, and Replevion are my bitches.
Foot worshipper: Lutvikkia. Dakky's mom, I had her with Nana.
The female Jim Morrison; not as talented, but just as attractive and self destructive. The one true heir to the throne of the Lizard King.
Some poetry I write sometimes
Tearing the MBTA a new one since 2014. The MTA too since 2016. Cover the world in trains 2030
COYS!

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