NationStates' Transgender Thread

[Jute]

I didn't say that. I said I wear that because I don't have a fashion sense, and suggested you helped with that. I don't know. I guess some straight people don't like being called hot by someone of the same gender, or might just find it weird for somebody to say that. You are straight, right?

Well you've got to tell me at least some things that you like, then we can go from there.

Women less so than men, it seems. I hear girls all the time telling eachother that they look hot or whatnot.
And yeah, for the most part. Like, I'd have sex with women, maybe date women, but not really have any sort of long term relationship with them. Friends excluded. Then again friend level and boyfriend level are separate.

I remember once telling a guy I liked some of the clothes he was wearing (and nothing more) and I only got "You're supposed to say that kind of stuff to girls!" At least it wasn't said in an angry tone or anything like that.

[Nature-Spirits]

@Val: Isara and Lydia are both really nice names.


Aw, hun. Things will get better soon. I promise. You just have to make it through high school and go off to university. Then you'll be the mistress of your own life.

And things will get better for trans people in general, too. For the first time, we're being given the spotlight, and people are starting to realise that we exist. Things are looking up.


Yay!


Aw. That's gotta be tough. I hope it goes away soon.

In other news, I just had my first appointment with my new psychologist. I have to say, I feel a lot better now than I did before. It really does help to just tell someone everything.

I also had Valarie suggested, because it's similar to my NS name and would make sense IRL. As for things starting to look up legally, there's a small issue. They're in the process of lowing the age, but with the rise of a certain party, I don't feel like I can hold out many hopes.

Do you mind if I ask you about your sexual orientation?

Valarie's nice too. I do have to say, though, I'm a fan of Lydia.

Not at all. I label myself androphilic homosexual, which basically means that I like guys. More informally, though, I just say I'm gay, because "androphilic homosexual" is a mouthful (no pun intended).

I didn't say that. I said I wear that because I don't have a fashion sense, and suggested you helped with that. I don't know. I guess some straight people don't like being called hot by someone of the same gender, or might just find it weird for somebody to say that. You are straight, right?

Well you've got to tell me at least some things that you like, then we can go from there.

Women less so than men, it seems. I hear girls all the time telling eachother that they look hot or whatnot.
And yeah, for the most part. Like, I'd have sex with women, maybe date women, but not really have any sort of long term relationship with them. Friends excluded. Then again friend level and boyfriend level are separate.

RE Fashion: Val, what colours do you like to wear/go well with your skin/eyes/hair? Do you prefer vintage or contemporary? Casual or sophisticated? Sexy or modest? Skirt, dresses or pants? Etc.

RE "Hot": Yeah, pretty much. (Straight cis) men are afraid that if they call another guy hot (or even just compliment how he looks), their heterosexuality will be called into question and they might have their male membership cards taken away. (The irony is that it's men policing themselves.) Women tend not to care about that sort of thing (which is also why it's often considered perfectly straight/acceptable for two girls to cuddle, while two guys can't, because for them it's "gay"/unacceptable.) Gay/otherwise queer men also tend not to have such inhibitions, probably because they're already queer/unacceptable, so they're not as worried as straight cis men are (though I'm sure there are some trans guys out there who, in an attempt to win acceptance as male, do the same thing as straight cis men).

Not that I mean to profile groups, but for the most part, it's true.

I will admit, though, sometimes I'm afraid of telling girls that they're hot, because I have this irrational fear that people will mistake me for a straight man and I won't be "queer enough" (which I guess is the LGBT equivalent of the straight cis men's thing, now that I think about it).

[Nature-Spirits]

Things along the lines of "Its disgusting." and "It shouldn't be socially acceptable."
So I guess in between

Based on what my father thinks about homosexuality, I think he might think similar things. Do they give any reasons?

Most people like that don't really have reasons, in my experience. It's just that they don't understand it and they're scared, but they don't want to admit it so they translate that into hate.

Well you've got to tell me at least some things that you like, then we can go from there.

Women less so than men, it seems. I hear girls all the time telling eachother that they look hot or whatnot.
And yeah, for the most part. Like, I'd have sex with women, maybe date women, but not really have any sort of long term relationship with them. Friends excluded. Then again friend level and boyfriend level are separate.

I remember once telling a guy I liked some of the clothes he was wearing (and nothing more) and I only got "You're supposed to say that kind of stuff to girls!" At least it wasn't said in an angry tone or anything like that.

Ah, the joys of living in a cisheteronormative society.

[Jute]

Based on what my father thinks about homosexuality, I think he might think similar things. Do they give any reasons?

Most people like that don't really have reasons, in my experience. It's just that they don't understand it and they're scared, but they don't want to admit it so they translate that into hate.

Yeah, and I think I still have something of it in me, back from when I didn't know anything much about this either. A part that apparently wants to distance itself (?) from gender debates, denies any possibility of a complete deviance from the norm and invalidates my conclusions a bit. Oh well, I guess the good side is that I have some kind of balance that will prevent me from rushing into anything and ensures I will give myself enough time for any huge decisions.

I remember once telling a guy I liked some of the clothes he was wearing (and nothing more) and I only got "You're supposed to say that kind of stuff to girls!" At least it wasn't said in an angry tone or anything like that.

Ah, the joys of living in a cisheteronormative society.

Yeah, and I really said that mostly only because it reminded me of a character I liked and wanted to buy similar clothes

[Val Halla]

I also had Valarie suggested, because it's similar to my NS name and would make sense IRL. As for things starting to look up legally, there's a small issue. They're in the process of lowing the age, but with the rise of a certain party, I don't feel like I can hold out many hopes.

Do you mind if I ask you about your sexual orientation?

Valarie's nice too. I do have to say, though, I'm a fan of Lydia.

Not at all. I label myself androphilic homosexual, which basically means that I like guys. More informally, though, I just say I'm gay, because "androphilic homosexual" is a mouthful (no pun intended).

Well you've got to tell me at least some things that you like, then we can go from there.

Women less so than men, it seems. I hear girls all the time telling eachother that they look hot or whatnot.
And yeah, for the most part. Like, I'd have sex with women, maybe date women, but not really have any sort of long term relationship with them. Friends excluded. Then again friend level and boyfriend level are separate.

RE Fashion: Val, what colours do you like to wear/go well with your skin/eyes/hair? Do you prefer vintage or contemporary? Casual or sophisticated? Sexy or modest? Skirt, dresses or pants? Etc.

RE "Hot": Yeah, pretty much. (Straight cis) men are afraid that if they call another guy hot (or even just compliment how he looks), their heterosexuality will be called into question and they might have their male membership cards taken away. (The irony is that it's men policing themselves.) Women tend not to care about that sort of thing (which is also why it's often considered perfectly straight/acceptable for two girls to cuddle, while two guys can't, because for them it's "gay"/unacceptable.) Gay/otherwise queer men also tend not to have such inhibitions, probably because they're already queer/unacceptable, so they're not as worried as straight cis men are (though I'm sure there are some trans guys out there who, in an attempt to win acceptance as male, do the same thing as straight cis men).

Not that I mean to profile groups, but for the most part, it's true.

I will admit, though, sometimes I'm afraid of telling girls that they're hot, because I have this irrational fear that people will mistake me for a straight man and I won't be "queer enough" (which I guess is the LGBT equivalent of the straight cis men's thing, now that I think about it).

That's part of the problem. I take half an hour just to figure out what game I want from the store. TBH, I'd be happy going with whatever she suggests.

[Liberonscien]

So learned two valuable things yesterday;
Finally tried out my floral tube skirt in public and HELLO BUTT!
Also, 40\50something guys that are a bit buzzed and try to flirt with me still make me blush regardless. aka I pass with them.

Can we see a pic?

[Liberonscien]

Huh, when I'm not thinking about it I've started to think of as liking boys as heterosexual already Then I kind of "snap out of it" and remember, but even then I kind of feel different than before. It's like I took the red gender pill

I'm so glad I'm not a girl right now. Though now I've gained so much respect for girls in general. Dealing with that crap is just amazing.

You mean the discrimination and disadvantages they still encounter?
What

People don't care. Hate to be a victim, but ultimately, we are. It's not just that people don't get it, it's that people are sadistic arseholes and know how sensitive we are, and pile the shit onto us.

Will society do something? Unless all the morons pull their heads out of their arses, no. Do I want things to change? I'd gladly give up my own exist if that's what it took for it to happen. I honestly don't know how I'm still alive. If I were religious, I'd say I've done something to anger my god. But I am, unlike many. If I could disappear and it meant that society would never have this issue, I would hesitate to do so.

Governments need to help too. The British government needs to help me, otherwise I won't live to see 20. Laws are changing, but I fear that if power is given to certain groups, it'll ho backwards.

Seeing how views of LGB people have changed into positive in general the past decades, I remain optimistic that the same will also happen for the T of LGBT.

Well, that too, but I was thinking about periods.

[Liberonscien]

I tried, but you were all about the baggy as hell tee and loose fitting jeans.
Course you've got "the butt issue," so there's always shapewear to help, as well as of course the high waisted midi skirt.

I didn't say that. I said I wear that because I don't have a fashion sense, and suggested you helped with that.

I've always been glad that it had a good template.Why would that be offensive

I don't know. I guess some straight people don't like being called hot by someone of the same gender, or might just find it weird for somebody to say that. You are straight, right?

Weird. Hot is hot. Doesn't matter who says it.

[Grenartia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology#Autogynephilia_and_autoandrophilia
Because I wasn't already confused enough? If the theory is supposed to be discredited, why does it apparently appear in the DSM-5?

Because autogynephilia/autoandrophilia exists. It's just not the reason people transition.

Actually, IIRC, its basically just a made-up thing to justify gatekeeping.

[Grenartia]

Another transgender person committed suicide...

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/04/tran ... elf-sorry/

How many Transgender people are going to commit suicide before people realize something has to be done?

I heard about her death. Fucking transphobic trolls.

My cynical side is telling me that too many people don't really see this as something that needs to be addressed, as they don't even see it as a problem. To transphobes, its a 'solution' (a "final solution" if you will) to the "transgender question" (i.e., what is to be done to prevent us from being who we are/existing).

[Grenartia]

Huh, when I'm not thinking about it I've started to think of as liking boys as heterosexual already Then I kind of "snap out of it" and remember, but even then I kind of feel different than before. It's like I took the red gender pill

I'm so glad I'm not a girl right now. Though now I've gained so much respect for girls in general. Dealing with that crap is just amazing.

You mean the discrimination and disadvantages they still encounter?
What

People don't care. Hate to be a victim, but ultimately, we are. It's not just that people don't get it, it's that people are sadistic arseholes and know how sensitive we are, and pile the shit onto us.

Will society do something? Unless all the morons pull their heads out of their arses, no. Do I want things to change? I'd gladly give up my own exist if that's what it took for it to happen. I honestly don't know how I'm still alive. If I were religious, I'd say I've done something to anger my god. But I am, unlike many. If I could disappear and it meant that society would never have this issue, I would hesitate to do so.

Governments need to help too. The British government needs to help me, otherwise I won't live to see 20. Laws are changing, but I fear that if power is given to certain groups, it'll ho backwards.

Seeing how views of LGB people have changed into positive in general the past decades, I remain optimistic that the same will also happen for the T of LGBT.

Honestly, a lot of that came at the cost of advancing transgender equality and protections. Selling us out to get SSM.

[Grenartia]

What happened?

You alright? I'm here. :3

My body decided that this morning would be a great morning for my period to show up, and I am really not in the mood to deal with that today. Or really any day, but today I'm already really close to completely breaking.

Hold strong, my brother. I know its hard, but you're an amazing person, and never forget that. We will come through, we will overcome.

[Grenartia]

I think Bruce Jenner is actually helping the cause a lot at the moment. Anyone have a good interview with that person?

Bruce Jenner has really brought the issue of transitioning into a modern, mainstream light; unfortunately, much of the response is negative, including from my own 'family'.

I actually haven't heard anything too negative or transphobic (other than "he'll make an ugly woman", and "he went from wheaties to fruit loops", but those are literally the worst things I've heard).

Though I do hope he (only using that because he specified he until presenting as full time) is able to utilize his extensive privilege and respect to benefit the rest of us. In a way, I guess he's already done that, a bit. He was considered the 'pinnacle of manliness'. And yet, he managed to start hormones all the way back in the 80s. That's got to be a massive boon for the rest of us, to show that no amount of fitting into the expectations of the gender we were forced into from birth can invalidate our identities. Its basically the Nixon going to China moment. If Bruce can legitimately be trans (and given the extensive gatekeeping in the 80s, there can be no doubt), then so can any of us.

He's also not well known just for being trans. He's also white, and rich. That means he can't be as easily dismissed as, say, Laverne Cox. His other coming out (combined with aforementioned privilege) also might just (a longshot, admittedly) convince Congressional leaders to start fucking doing something positive on this issue.

And, perhaps best of all, he knows the shit the rest of us have to go through, even ignoring dysphoria. He's not out of touch with us.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

So when the same sex marriage debate is over, should we try to put the spotlight on trans rights in 2016, in the height of the election? What are the most important rights to protect?

[Jute]

Last night the "am I deluding myself" thing came up again, darn. It's kind of awkward and a bit embarrassing, because it was essentially "how do I know whether I really identify more as female because I truly feel like one (at least, a lot of the times) or just because a favorite fictional character, who I relate to much, is female?" Made me feel a bit like a fraud.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

So when the same sex marriage debate is over, should we try to put the spotlight on trans rights in 2016, in the height of the election? What are the most important rights to protect?

The gay marriage debate won't be over anytime soon, speaking internationally. I can fully say that it won't end with the large persecution against gays. However speaking as a gay male, I rather they start now instead of next year.

[Jute]

It seems like I found some articles illustrating how I feel about gender roles: http://broadblogs.com/2015/04/01/girls- ... e-sissies/
Wikipedia also seems to have some information on it. So it really wasn't just a feeling that tomboys are more accepted than janegirls. Ugh.

[Val Halla]

I emerge from the depths.

One thing I'm wondering. How, uhm, durable, would my fixed "you know where" be? Odd thing to ask, but I'm concerned.

[Grenartia]

So when the same sex marriage debate is over, should we try to put the spotlight on trans rights in 2016, in the height of the election? What are the most important rights to protect?

Why not start now? Why can't we protect both at once?

Right now, trans equality is at about the same place that gay equality was in the 90s. Which is sad, really. And as we all know, justice delayed is justice denied. Love can't wait, but neither can trans peoples' bladders.

[Replevion]

Last night the "am I deluding myself" thing came up again, darn. It's kind of awkward and a bit embarrassing, because it was essentially "how do I know whether I really identify more as female because I truly feel like one (at least, a lot of the times) or just because a favorite fictional character, who I relate to much, is female?" Made me feel a bit like a fraud.

For some reason we as human beings have this impression that things we can't explain about ourselves are some how more valid, because if they can't be explained they must necessarily be innate and immutable, and therefore not "our fault" or "in our control".

Hence the whole "sexuality/gender is not a choice!" narrative. And while it gets me on a lot of people's bad sides in the LGBT community, I'm nonetheless a constructivist-leaning compatibilist in the constructivist-essentialist dichotomy of viewing personal gender development. I don't say categorically that gender cannot be innate, because I can't be other people and I must trust their judgment. But I can't say gender is always innate and immutable because I've seen cases where it wasn't, including my own.

I can tell you the three main catalysts for my gender dysphoria. In my early childhood (~4) all my neighbor's kids were girls and I thought they were cooler than me and I wanted to be like them, and that's when I first decided I wanted to be girl, a decision I've never reconsidered. My mother was a stronger and clearer role model for me growing up than my father was and that taught me to value and appreciate (and develop!) female perspective in a first person sense being modeled after her. (I was a homeschooled only child with few friends and rarely went out. 98% of the time I spent with another human being before my adulthood was spent with my mother, so it's unsurprising what deep impression she made on me in terms of modelling myself as a human being. Which is funny because superficially we're diametrically antithetical, but that's kind of a mother daughter stereotype too... oh the layers.) And lastly my dysphoria was thrown into overdrive when I basically fell in love with my male best friend and really deeply wanted to be his girlfriend. These are certainly not the only reasons, but they're the most significant.

The fact that I can look at these motivators square in the face does not lessen let alone negate the fact that I've felt female and wanted to live as a woman nearly my entire life. It also doesn't change anything about the fact that after transition, living full time and HRT I feel completely aligned now mentally and emotionally with my identity and expression and I'd rather die than go back. Indeed I'd say fundamentally, if transition fulfills a person and categorically makes their life better, what business is it of anybody "why" they transitioned?

Besides all that, I don't think that the 'gender/sexuality is not a choice!' argument is, if you'll excuse the pun, essential. If a society is as free, tolerant, and pluralistic as a society should be, why should it matter if somebody "merely" chooses to be gay or chooses to be the opposite gender or non-binary or whatever? The reason we've had to rely on gender essentialism is that bigots in our society don't want to accept having to treat anybody who doesn't conform with respect unless that lack of conformity is involuntary. That's bullshit, and we shouldn't accept that premise.

[Fabulous Rainicorns]

I'm feeling a little bit better today, physically at least. Emotionally, not so much, but at least I don't have to deal with physical pain as well.

[Val Halla]

I'm feeling a little bit better today, physically at least. Emotionally, not so much, but at least I don't have to deal with physical pain as well.

My inbox is open to you Jay. :3

[Geanna]

http://graphics.latimes.com/usmap-gay-m ... hronology/

[Val Halla]

http://graphics.latimes.com/usmap-gay-marriage-chronology/

Kinda disgusting that some states still ban it.

Can you answer my question, please? It's a concern, y'know, looking at my sig.

[Fabulous Rainicorns]

http://graphics.latimes.com/usmap-gay-marriage-chronology/

Kinda disgusting that some states still ban it.

Can you answer my question, please? It's a concern, y'know, looking at my sig.

I wish I could answer, but I have absolutely no idea.