NationStates' Transgender Thread

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You aren't a man intent on raping women. You're a woman.

Just wish I didn't have such a hard time feeling like it these days.

You want me to be very honest with you? I have days when I too don't feel it. Or I find hard to feel it.

[KirbyFluffle]

Men are men. Women are women. Humans are humans.

[Vassenor]

Just wish I didn't have such a hard time feeling like it these days.

You want me to be very honest with you? I have days when I too don't feel it. Or I find hard to feel it.

It's just now more than ever I feel like I got it all wrong and I'm actually just a guy with some slightly feminine traits which I overreacted to.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You want me to be very honest with you? I have days when I too don't feel it. Or I find hard to feel it.

It's just now more than ever I feel like I got it all wrong and I'm actually just a guy with some slightly feminine traits which I overreacted to.

I can't really say much, Vassy, other than perhaps you should talk to a counselor. He/she may be able to help you reconcile what it is you're feeling.

[Val Halla]

It's just now more than ever I feel like I got it all wrong and I'm actually just a guy with some slightly feminine traits which I overreacted to.

I can't really say much, Vassy, other than perhaps you should talk to a counselor. He/she may be able to help you reconcile what it is you're feeling.

I'd be careful with counselors tbh.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I can't really say much, Vassy, other than perhaps you should talk to a counselor. He/she may be able to help you reconcile what it is you're feeling.

I'd be careful with counselors tbh.

That's for Vassy to decide, when and if she sees one, really. I lack the credentials to say anything, really.

[Vassenor]

Pretty sure they'd just tell me "that's just your autism talking; normal people don't think that way".

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Pretty sure they'd just tell me "that's just your autism talking; normal people don't think that way".

That would an unethical thing to say, however. I know several transgender people who are not autistic. And many autistic people who aren't transgender. I don't see how they would make such a connection.

[Val Halla]

Pretty sure they'd just tell me "that's just your autism talking; normal people don't think that way".

They won't say that. Buuuuut a lot of counselors are generally unhelpful.

[Big Brain City]

Men are men. Women are women. Humans are humans.

Okay, this is an ambiguous statement.

Beyond talk therapy, many people choose to take at least some steps to bring their physical appearance in line with how they feel inside. They might change the way they dress or go by a different name. They may also take medicine or have surgery to change their appearance. Possible treatments include:

Puberty blockers -- A young person in early puberty with gender dysphoria might ask to be prescribed hormones (testosterone or estrogen) that would suppress physical changes. Before making that decision, the young person should talk with a pediatrician and sometimes a psychiatrist about the pros and cons of taking these hormones, especially at a young age.
Hormones – Teens or adults may take the hormones estrogen or testosterone to develop traits of the sex that they identify with.
Surgery – Some people choose to have complete sex-reassignment surgery. This used to be called a sex-change operation. But not everyone does. People may choose to have only some procedures done in order to bring their looks more in line with their feelings.
With their therapists, people choose the treatment that is right for them based on what they want and what they already look like.

After transitioning, a person may no longer feel dysphoria. But the person may still need therapy. Friends, family, co-workers, potential employers, and religious groups can sometimes have a hard time understanding when someone’s gender appears to change. This and other challenges of transitioning can call for professional help.

src
What do you think of this material? Do you think it is valid?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Men are men. Women are women. Humans are humans.

Yes, yes. We know already that you do not understand and do not wish to understand the issue of gender and fluidity and how your statement is pure bullshit so... eh.

[Vassenor]

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

[Val Halla]

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

Aww, come on dear, you've done nothing wrong

If anyone lacks the right to come here, it's me

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

I don't think anyone here thinks you've wasted our time. Not at all. I think you need the support structure this thread can give you. You belong here. Don't leave.

[The Serbian Empire]

Pretty sure they'd just tell me "that's just your autism talking; normal people don't think that way".

If it was just the autism talking then wouldn't a fairly high percentage of the autistics be trans?

[Nature-Spirits]

When it comes to feminism, one thing I consider is that trans women are an asset, not invaders. In which ways do you consider trans women an asset to feminism.

Honestly, I think they bring a particular viewpoint, particularly one of having to fight to be recognized as such, as women. Something I do not have to fight for because I was born into a woman's body. But their struggle mirrors that of many women. In the recognition, one that goes on in certain echelons of society, in certain cultures. The struggle to be considered equal, one that is not any different from that of transgender people.

What do you ladies, gents, and nonbinary people think?

I agree.

I do think that trans people's perspectives could be valuable in that those of us who have transitioned have the experience of being treated as men and as women, and so we generally have a good understanding of the stark contrast between the way society treats people based on their perceived gender. I would also say that AMAB trans people are very qualified to speak to the way society oppresses men: while in Western society, women are generally allowed to express a range of gender expressions (ranging from very feminine to very masculine, although women who are more masculine than most do experience discrimination on the basis of not conforming enough to gender norms), men are far more restricted. It's okay for women to wear men's clothes; it's not okay for men to wear women's clothes. (I would like to point out that clothes are not inherently gendered; I'm using "men's/women's clothes" as a shorthand.) I feel like mainstream feminism tends to ignore this oppression of men, and MRAs don't tend to care much for effeminacy, in my experience.

My experience as a transperson has a pretty big impact on my perspective on feminism, especially on issues to do with the importance of overlapping and complex forms of discrimination, the falsity of the man = oppressor, woman = oppressed binary, the distinction between gender roles and gender identity. In all honesty, my experience has led me to conclude that - outside of a fairly narrow range of topics that have already largely been dealt with - feminism is pretty unimpressive.

I would say that I agree with most of this as well.

Men are men. Women are women. Humans are humans.

You're right. Men are men, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. Women are women, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. And humans are obviously humans. I applaud you for understanding the basic logic of x = x.

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

What? No, don't go. You have every right to be here.

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

Aww, come on dear, you've done nothing wrong

If anyone lacks the right to come here, it's me

You have the right to be here, too. The only people who should gtfo of the thread are transphobic trolls, tbh.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Men are men. Women are women. Humans are humans.

And I am a woman. Problem?

[Val Halla]

When it comes to feminism, one thing I consider is that trans women are an asset, not invaders. In which ways do you consider trans women an asset to feminism.

Honestly, I think they bring a particular viewpoint, particularly one of having to fight to be recognized as such, as women. Something I do not have to fight for because I was born into a woman's body. But their struggle mirrors that of many women. In the recognition, one that goes on in certain echelons of society, in certain cultures. The struggle to be considered equal, one that is not any different from that of transgender people.

What do you ladies, gents, and nonbinary people think?

I agree.

I do think that trans people's perspectives could be valuable in that those of us who have transitioned have the experience of being treated as men and as women, and so we generally have a good understanding of the stark contrast between the way society treats people based on their perceived gender. I would also say that AMAB trans people are very qualified to speak to the way society oppresses men: while in Western society, women are generally allowed to express a range of gender expressions (ranging from very feminine to very masculine, although women who are more masculine than most do experience discrimination on the basis of not conforming enough to gender norms), men are far more restricted. It's okay for women to wear men's clothes; it's not okay for men to wear women's clothes. (I would like to point out that clothes are not inherently gendered; I'm using "men's/women's clothes" as a shorthand.) I feel like mainstream feminism tends to ignore this oppression of men, and MRAs don't tend to care much for effeminacy, in my experience.

My experience as a transperson has a pretty big impact on my perspective on feminism, especially on issues to do with the importance of overlapping and complex forms of discrimination, the falsity of the man = oppressor, woman = oppressed binary, the distinction between gender roles and gender identity. In all honesty, my experience has led me to conclude that - outside of a fairly narrow range of topics that have already largely been dealt with - feminism is pretty unimpressive.

I would say that I agree with most of this as well.

Men are men. Women are women. Humans are humans.

You're right. Men are men, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. Women are women, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. And humans are obviously humans. I applaud you for understanding the basic logic of x = x.

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

What? No, don't go. You have every right to be here.

Aww, come on dear, you've done nothing wrong

If anyone lacks the right to come here, it's me

You have the right to be here, too. The only people who should gtfo of the thread are transphobic trolls, tbh.

Idk, I'm pretty bad for the community

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I agree.

I do think that trans people's perspectives could be valuable in that those of us who have transitioned have the experience of being treated as men and as women, and so we generally have a good understanding of the stark contrast between the way society treats people based on their perceived gender. I would also say that AMAB trans people are very qualified to speak to the way society oppresses men: while in Western society, women are generally allowed to express a range of gender expressions (ranging from very feminine to very masculine, although women who are more masculine than most do experience discrimination on the basis of not conforming enough to gender norms), men are far more restricted. It's okay for women to wear men's clothes; it's not okay for men to wear women's clothes. (I would like to point out that clothes are not inherently gendered; I'm using "men's/women's clothes" as a shorthand.) I feel like mainstream feminism tends to ignore this oppression of men, and MRAs don't tend to care much for effeminacy, in my experience.


I would say that I agree with most of this as well.


You're right. Men are men, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. Women are women, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. And humans are obviously humans. I applaud you for understanding the basic logic of x = x.


What? No, don't go. You have every right to be here.


You have the right to be here, too. The only people who should gtfo of the thread are transphobic trolls, tbh.

Idk, I'm pretty bad for the community

No, your not bad for the community? How could you possibly believe that??

[Val Halla]

Idk, I'm pretty bad for the community

No, your not bad for the community? How could you possibly believe that??

My posting is just me complaining about how shitty and hopeless everything is

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I agree.

I do think that trans people's perspectives could be valuable in that those of us who have transitioned have the experience of being treated as men and as women, and so we generally have a good understanding of the stark contrast between the way society treats people based on their perceived gender. I would also say that AMAB trans people are very qualified to speak to the way society oppresses men: while in Western society, women are generally allowed to express a range of gender expressions (ranging from very feminine to very masculine, although women who are more masculine than most do experience discrimination on the basis of not conforming enough to gender norms), men are far more restricted. It's okay for women to wear men's clothes; it's not okay for men to wear women's clothes. (I would like to point out that clothes are not inherently gendered; I'm using "men's/women's clothes" as a shorthand.) I feel like mainstream feminism tends to ignore this oppression of men, and MRAs don't tend to care much for effeminacy, in my experience.


I would say that I agree with most of this as well.


You're right. Men are men, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. Women are women, regardless of whether they were born with a penis, with a vagina, or intersex. And humans are obviously humans. I applaud you for understanding the basic logic of x = x.


What? No, don't go. You have every right to be here.


You have the right to be here, too. The only people who should gtfo of the thread are transphobic trolls, tbh.

Idk, I'm pretty bad for the community

You're not bad for the community. Try not to turn this into a pity party, dear.

[Val Halla]

Idk, I'm pretty bad for the community

You're not bad for the community. Try not to turn this into a pity party, dear.

I'm just trying to be honest

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You're not bad for the community. Try not to turn this into a pity party, dear.

I'm just trying to be honest

And we told you you aren't. Relax.

[Ashkera]

I feel like mainstream feminism tends to ignore this oppression of men, and MRAs don't tend to care much for effeminacy, in my experience.

As someone that identifies as an MRA-sympathizer (I also consider myself a feminist sympathizer), who keeps tabs on them from time to time, I would largely agree with this statement.

I think MRAs are men that want to live as men, and lean masculine but aren't actually loaded to the gills with machismo. I think a lot of them internalized a lot of very negative messages about men and masculinity, and fighting that is what made them susceptible to MRA messages in the first place. (Not in a negative way, it's just you're more likely to care if you feel like you've been made to hate yourself over your gender.) So to them, the idea that it's okay to be masculine/male is important, even if their masculinity is usually much more subdued than the masculinity everyone is fussing about. So they don't focus on being effeminate.

Thus it gets overlooked.

(If you want to have a longer discussion about that, we can do so over in the MRA thread. I feel going any deeper would be getting off-topic.)

It's just now more than ever I feel like I got it all wrong and I'm actually just a guy with some slightly feminine traits which I overreacted to.

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

Now I'm not really in charge of this thread or anything, but people who aren't sure what they feel and aren't 100% sure if they're trans (and gender can be pretty subtle) seems like an appropriate topic for a transgender thread. Also, the others seem supportive so I wouldn't worry about it.

(Also, I'm not a doctor, but that sounds like the kind of thing I might say when I was going through a low in my depression.)

Working out who you are and coming to terms with it can be a long-term process. There was a time where I was uncertain. Later I realized part of that was due to negative messages about men I had internalized, and ideas about masculinity that were very constricting and leave out a lot of real-life men that prefer to live as men. That process, however, took time, talking to people, and so on.

[The Serbian Empire]

I feel like mainstream feminism tends to ignore this oppression of men, and MRAs don't tend to care much for effeminacy, in my experience.

As someone that identifies as an MRA-sympathizer (I also consider myself a feminist sympathizer), who keeps tabs on them from time to time, I would largely agree with this statement.

I think MRAs are men that want to live as men, and lean masculine but aren't actually loaded to the gills with machismo. I think a lot of them internalized a lot of very negative messages about men and masculinity, and fighting that is what made them susceptible to MRA messages in the first place. (Not in a negative way, it's just you're more likely to care if you feel like you've been made to hate yourself over your gender.) So to them, the idea that it's okay to be masculine/male is important, even if their masculinity is usually much more subdued than the masculinity everyone is fussing about. So they don't focus on being effeminate.

Thus it gets overlooked.

(If you want to have a longer discussion about that, we can do so over in the MRA thread. I feel going any deeper would be getting off-topic.)

It's just now more than ever I feel like I got it all wrong and I'm actually just a guy with some slightly feminine traits which I overreacted to.

I guess when it comes down to it I've just been a colossal waste of everyone's time and probably had no right to come here in the first place, so I guess I'm going to take my leave.

Goodbye.

Now I'm not really in charge of this thread or anything, but people who aren't sure what they feel and aren't 100% sure if they're trans (and gender can be pretty subtle) seems like an appropriate topic for a transgender thread. Also, the others seem supportive so I wouldn't worry about it.

(Also, I'm not a doctor, but that sounds like the kind of thing I might say when I was going through a low in my depression.)

Working out who you are and coming to terms with it can be a long-term process. There was a time where I was uncertain. Later I realized part of that was due to negative messages about men I had internalized, and ideas about masculinity that were very constricting and leave out a lot of real-life men that prefer to live as men. That process, however, took time, talking to people, and so on.

And then there are former MRAs who realize that they are women inside and that's why they found the MRA movement so attractive. See myself as an example. I realized that not even the freedom of the Men's Rights Movement was going to make me happy with myself being constricted given how long I had crossdressed. Once that conclusion was reached... being a MRA would be redundant as I'd need the trans-feminism as much if not more.