NationStates' Transgender Thread

[Val Halla]

I just don't feel like I could go through with it. I'm not sure why. >.<

A lot of things to be considered, after all. How everyone will react, what it means for your current and future job, etc.

I din't frequent this thread as often as I did a few weeks ago, so peekaboo! Less than two weeks to my birthday...

It's so close to easter this year, then

Always is. I looked it up, easter is on my birthday in 2030

[Grenartia]

To my fellow Americans on here, the NCTE has some pretty useful pages.

One is basically a form to allow you to submit a comment to the Civil Rights Commission regarding LGBT workplace protections. http://salsa4.salsalabs.com/o/51171/p/d ... _KEY=13332

The other is an interactive map that informs you of how to change your identity documents in each state, and at the federal level. http://salsa4.salsalabs.com/o/51171/p/d ... _KEY=13332

And on a lighter note. http://www.transequality.org/blog/ncte- ... laboratory

[-United Islamic Emirates-]

I saw a Maury episode about this.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I saw a Maury episode about this.

About what, exactly?

[-United Islamic Emirates-]

I saw a Maury episode about this.

About what, exactly?

Transexuals

Question!!!!!!!!!
Is their such thing as an involuntary transexual. I kinda came up with it right now as I was just reminded of this story I heard about the East German oplypmpics team where tr choach was ordered by the Stazi to give "special" pills to his athletes to enhance them in the olympics and a femal gymnast became a man with a beard and every thing and had to change her name and has to date other females now and she sees her self as a girl on the inside but feels like due to society she needs to act like a man and be a man my heart goes out to her. Thoughts on this?

[Sun Wukong]

About what, exactly?

Transexuals

Question!!!!!!!!!
Is their such thing as an involuntary transexual. I kinda came up with it right now as I was just reminded of this story I heard about the East German oplypmpics team where tr choach was ordered by the Stazi to give "special" pills to his athletes to enhance them in the olympics and a femal gymnast became a man with a beard and every thing and had to change her name and has to date other females now and she sees her self as a girl on the inside but feels like due to society she needs to act like a man and be a man my heart goes out to her. Thoughts on this?

I should imagine more or less all transexualism is involuntary.

[-United Islamic Emirates-]

Transexuals

Question!!!!!!!!!
Is their such thing as an involuntary transexual. I kinda came up with it right now as I was just reminded of this story I heard about the East German oplypmpics team where tr choach was ordered by the Stazi to give "special" pills to his athletes to enhance them in the olympics and a femal gymnast became a man with a beard and every thing and had to change her name and has to date other females now and she sees her self as a girl on the inside but feels like due to society she needs to act like a man and be a man my heart goes out to her. Thoughts on this?

I should imagine more or less all transexualism is involuntary.

But she didn't even chose this or get a say in the transformation and was lied to where as here you can just chose to get a surgery or the pills etc.

[Sun Wukong]

I should imagine more or less all transexualism is involuntary.

But she didn't even chose this or get a say in the transformation and was lied to where as here you can just chose to get a surgery or the pills etc.

And?

It's not as though future transsexuals check the "gender dysphoria" box on the way out of their mother's womb. What you allege happened to her wasn't good, but neither is what happens to most transgender people.

[-United Islamic Emirates-]

But she didn't even chose this or get a say in the transformation and was lied to where as here you can just chose to get a surgery or the pills etc.

And?

It's not as though future transsexuals check the "gender dysphoria" box on the way out of their mother's womb. What you allege happened to her wasn't good, but neither is what happens to most transgender people.

You're missing the damn point!

[Sun Wukong]

And?

It's not as though future transsexuals check the "gender dysphoria" box on the way out of their mother's womb. What you allege happened to her wasn't good, but neither is what happens to most transgender people.

You're missing the damn point!

No, you're missing mine.

What happened to her is functionally no different then the circumstance all gender dysphoric people find themselves in. If you sympathize with her, you should sympathize equally with all transgender people.

[Grenartia]

You're missing the damn point!

No, you're missing mine.

What happened to her is functionally no different then the circumstance all gender dysphoric people find themselves in. If you sympathize with her, you should sympathize equally with all transgender people.

Precisely.

[Vassenor]

I'm pretty sure that "gained secondary sexual characteristics as a result of steroid abuse" isn't the same thing as being transgender.

[Jute]

Hello, anyone have opinions on this? http://www.transsexual.org/cogiati_english.html

You're missing the damn point!

No, you're missing mine.

What happened to her is functionally no different then the circumstance all gender dysphoric people find themselves in. If you sympathize with her, you should sympathize equally with all transgender people.

Anyone know why the guy you're responding to got deleted?

[Grenartia]

I'm pretty sure that "gained secondary sexual characteristics as a result of steroid abuse" isn't the same thing as being transgender.

I was thinking the same thing, but I couldn't think of a way to put it.

[Jykku]

Yeah, what do you think this is, "Tabloid Tales" by Fraylim?

[Grenartia]

Yeah, what do you think this is, "Tabloid Tales" by Fraylim?

Fucking tabloids.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Hello, anyone have opinions on this? http://www.transsexual.org/cogiati_english.html

COGIATI? In 2015? It's the ghost of bullshit past!

[Jute]

Hello, anyone have opinions on this? http://www.transsexual.org/cogiati_english.html

COGIATI? In 2015? It's the ghost of bullshit past!

Sorry if you had negative experiences with it, it actually proved somewhat helpful for me...

[Dumb Ideologies]

COGIATI? In 2015? It's the ghost of bullshit past!

Sorry if you had negative experiences with it, it actually proved somewhat helpful for me...

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Needless to say, when I took it as a confused teen and it firmly told me I wasn't trans, that wasn't very helpful.

[Jute]

Sorry if you had negative experiences with it, it actually proved somewhat helpful for me...

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Needless to say, when I took it as a confused teen and it firmly told me I wasn't trans, that wasn't very helpful.

Sorry to hear that. It kind of echoed my own sentiments about myself, though, and also gave a few suggestions that I could agree with. What did you do to find out more about what identity best matches you, then, if I'm allowed to ask?

[Jute]

Sorry if you had negative experiences with it, it actually proved somewhat helpful for me...

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Needless to say, when I took it as a confused teen and it firmly told me I wasn't trans, that wasn't very helpful.

Sorry to hear that. It kind of echoed my own sentiments about myself, though, and also gave a few suggestions that I could agree with. What did you do to find out more about what identity best matches you, then, if I'm allowed to ask?

[Toddlrsta]

Sorry if you had negative experiences with it, it actually proved somewhat helpful for me...

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Needless to say, when I took it as a confused teen and it firmly told me I wasn't trans, that wasn't very helpful.

I just took it, the test is completely archaic and going off of the stereotypes you mentioned, I do like how it separated the sexual aspect from the the rest though, it made it difficult asking me things like what gets you off as an asexual, well nothing does.

Here were my results.

Your COGIATI result value is: 355 Which means that you fall within the following category:
COGIATI classification FOUR, PROBABLE TRANSSEXUAL
What this means is that the Combined Gender Identity And Transsexuality Inventory has classified your internal gender identity to be essentially feminine, but with some masculine or androgynous traits. It is very possible that you are a candidate for a diagnosis of transsexualism. You show a strong degree of gender dysphoria. At the very least, further investigation should be undertaken. Your COGIATI score places you among the majority of those diagnosed as transsexuals, the 'late onset' tanssexual.

Damn thing, all my "male" traits were me not being able to sense expressions or tone well, and that's just because I have aspergers not that i'm a man.

Jute, for real do you think this test from the days before the internet means anything? It is borderline transphobic.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Needless to say, when I took it as a confused teen and it firmly told me I wasn't trans, that wasn't very helpful.

Sorry to hear that. It kind of echoed my own sentiments about myself, though, and also gave a few suggestions that I could agree with. What did you do to find out more about what identity best matches you, then, if I'm allowed to ask?

I thought pretty deeply about it over a long period of time. Almost always better than a weird old internet test, I would wager

[Jute]

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Needless to say, when I took it as a confused teen and it firmly told me I wasn't trans, that wasn't very helpful.

I just took it, the test is completely archaic and going off of the stereotypes you mentioned, I do like how it separated the sexual aspect from the the rest though, it made it difficult asking me things like what gets you off as an asexual, well nothing does.

Here were my results.

Your COGIATI result value is: 355 Which means that you fall within the following category:
COGIATI classification FOUR, PROBABLE TRANSSEXUAL
What this means is that the Combined Gender Identity And Transsexuality Inventory has classified your internal gender identity to be essentially feminine, but with some masculine or androgynous traits. It is very possible that you are a candidate for a diagnosis of transsexualism. You show a strong degree of gender dysphoria. At the very least, further investigation should be undertaken. Your COGIATI score places you among the majority of those diagnosed as transsexuals, the 'late onset' tanssexual.

Damn thing, all my "male" traits were me not being able to sense expressions or tone well, and that's just because I have aspergers not that i'm a man.

Jute, for real do you think this test from the days before the internet means anything? It is borderline transphobic.

Having male traits isn't something that would make anyone less of a woman, just as liking "girly" things doesn't make anyone less of a man. So you don't have to take it as an insult. Also, the test was linked to me from the number one page for transsexuals (most likely made by transsexuals, too) and apparently even made by a transsexual, too. I never said it had to mean anything, or meant to imply that.
Here's the author defending the test, by the way: Link

Sorry to hear that. It kind of echoed my own sentiments about myself, though, and also gave a few suggestions that I could agree with. What did you do to find out more about what identity best matches you, then, if I'm allowed to ask?

I thought pretty deeply about it over a long period of time. Almost always better than a weird old internet test, I would wager

Obviously, I just am not sure what "thinking deeply" means here. How and what to think about, for example. Hence why I tried that test to give me suggestions which I could use as some sort of starting point.

[Nature-Spirits]

And on a lighter note. http://www.transequality.org/blog/ncte- ... laboratory

Sorry if you had negative experiences with it, it actually proved somewhat helpful for me...

It conflates identity and conformity with traditional gender stereotypes.

Indeed. I took it yesterday, and when one of the first questions was about how good at math you are, I was worried. Studies have long proven false the stereotype that girls are worse at math than boys.

Also, the test was hopelessly binarist. Some of the questions were really tricky for me to navigate around.

For the record, it told me that I was a "probable transsexual" in the end. I feel like it would tell the same thing to a lot of men, though, and the opposite to a lot of trans women, considering what the questions were like....

I just took it, the test is completely archaic and going off of the stereotypes you mentioned, I do like how it separated the sexual aspect from the the rest though, it made it difficult asking me things like what gets you off as an asexual, well nothing does.

Here were my results.

Your COGIATI result value is: 355 Which means that you fall within the following category:
COGIATI classification FOUR, PROBABLE TRANSSEXUAL
What this means is that the Combined Gender Identity And Transsexuality Inventory has classified your internal gender identity to be essentially feminine, but with some masculine or androgynous traits. It is very possible that you are a candidate for a diagnosis of transsexualism. You show a strong degree of gender dysphoria. At the very least, further investigation should be undertaken. Your COGIATI score places you among the majority of those diagnosed as transsexuals, the 'late onset' tanssexual.

Damn thing, all my "male" traits were me not being able to sense expressions or tone well, and that's just because I have aspergers not that i'm a man.

Jute, for real do you think this test from the days before the internet means anything? It is borderline transphobic.

Having male traits isn't something that would make anyone less of a woman, just as liking "girly" things doesn't make anyone less of a man. So you don't have to take it as an insult.

I do agree with this. There are femme men, tomboys, and people all along the spectrum. Gender identity doesn't have to be the same thing as gender expression -- and in many cases, it isn't. Just because we're trans doesn't mean that we should have to defend our genders by being super feminine/uber masculine (for women and men respectively), and that cis people expect us to is hypocritical. When a wee little cis girl wants to play with trucks and hang out with the boys, after all, no one assumes she's a boy -- why hold cis folk to different standards than trans folk? It's transmisogynistic to hold trans people to such high standards of femininity/masculinity.

Here's the author defending the test, by the way: Link

When she said, "male homosexuality can be defined as a partial, incomplete, transsexualization of the brain", I stopped reading. It obviously reflects her own heteronormative outlook, since she obviously hasn't taken into account the numerous gay and lesbian trans people, nor the many masculine gay men (I'm not going to use a specific label here because there are too many) and the lipstick lesbians, who you would really never guess to be gay. And that's not to mention the bi/pan-erasure -- if being gay is somehow an "incomplete transsexualization", then what are bi/pansexuals? Bi- and pansexual people can be cis, binary trans, non-binary, etc., so what does that mean for them? Obviously their existence didn't even occur to her. And I can't take someone seriously when they pack so many logical fallacies into one sentence.

I thought pretty deeply about it over a long period of time. Almost always better than a weird old internet test, I would wager

Obviously, I just am not sure what "thinking deeply" means here. How and what to think about, for example. Hence why I tried that test to give me suggestions which I could use as some sort of starting point.

Well, when I was contemplating my own gender identity, I mostly just took a long time to think about how I experience gender. I still do. I did some research, did some introspection, did some more research, did some more introspection, went out to meet some trans people in my community, did some more introspection, joined this thread, etc. I thought about my past -- remembering that one time in Grade 8 I told my friends (all girls) that I wished I were a girl (to which they said that no, I didn't, because periods were horrible), remembering how sometimes I would love my body and love being a boy, remembering how at other times I would feel indifferent about or dislike my body and not enjoy being a boy -- and my present -- every time I start shifting genders now, I notice, and though I don't put so much focus on labelling what I happen to be experiencing at the moment, I do recognise my different feelings of gender, take note of my dysphoria vs euphoria vs indifference, and learn from every experience I have. I think a lot about gender nowadays -- not to the point of obsessing over it, and certainly not all the time -- but over the past year I've probably thought about gender more than most cis people will in a decade. I've had to do that in order to figure myself out. And I'm glad for it, because despite the monster that is dysphoria, I'm happier with myself now that I have a better understanding of me.