Mitt Romney announces potential 2016 presidential run

[Breko]

NO GOD PLEASE NO! NO!!! NOOOOOOOOO

[Ashmoria]

its best to leave it there. but its not like republican officials all around the country aren't anti MANY social liberty positions.

for example even though the majority of repubicans (I think, if not then it is very close to a majority) are OK with gay rights and gay marriage the vast majority of republican office holders are against gay marriage and are very leery of general gay rights. the vast majority are against legalizing marijuana. they are prone to talking about America as a Christian country and ranting about social degeneracy and how we need to bring back traditional family values.

Agreed, so if you would like to continue discussing abortion, message me. Now, to try and reel this back into the topic at-hand, I think 2016 will be a big year in defining the GOP-brand moving forward. In 2012, the GOP nominated someone who appeared to be a moderate candidate, but it's safe to say his own shortcomings (mostly his flip-flopping nature) and ill-advised comments were what ended up with his defeat in the 2012 Presidential campaign.

Whether we like it or not, the United States IS, in fact, a Christian nation... but, it's a defacto Christian nation, not a dejure Christian nation. Many, but not all, conservative politicians speak of the United States being a "Christian nation" because they are Christians appealing to a overwhelmingly Christian audience... though there are numerous conservatives who are not Christian.

That said, the Republican Party has always been rooted as a party based off of Judeo-Christian ethics more so than the relatively more populist Democratic party, but the United States has systematically been deterred away from Christianity for several years now, and the Republican Party is (for whatever reason) seemingly synonymous with Christian beliefs within the United States. Of course this is simply not true, as Republicans (generally) are in favor of the death penalty and aren't nearly as concerned with the environment or the poor as they ought to be... all of which are central tenants to Christianity.

you mistake my reason for putting out these examples. It is not to debate them but to show that the party is anti-social-liberty. unless its guns. they love gun liberty.

[Ashmoria]

Why is that the liberals see Romney as a suppressor of women's and gay rights and yet the conservatives criticize him for being a moderate, that he isn't "conservative enough"? Am I missing something? How can he simultaneously dissatisfy both parties?

its not "the party" its the radio talk show hosts and their followers. they have gone far past real conservatism into being nutty, delusional reactionaries. no politician who gets things done in the real world will be conservative enough for them. that's why they love people like ted cruz who does nothing but keep the congress from getting things done.

[Ashmoria]

It's simple. The Republicans are so far out, they aren't remotely connected to reality.

I am talking about your average conservative base. Romney is anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-DP, anti-union, anti-global warming, against Obama's economic policies on just about every level, and a Christian. So why do the conservatives, who are all these qualities, have such a beef with him?

he was governor of Massachusetts and as such did and said things that are anathema to todays conservatives.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So Romney wants to run for 2016.

Welp, let's hope he doesn't pick a reactionary as a running mate otherwise he's fucked.

[Farnhamia]

I am talking about your average conservative base. Romney is anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-DP, anti-union, anti-global warming, against Obama's economic policies on just about every level, and a Christian. So why do the conservatives, who are all these qualities, have such a beef with him?

he was governor of Massachusetts and as such did and said things that are anathema to todays conservatives.

Besides, he's a Mormon and Americans are still not quite sure about them. I have to admit, though, it was pretty funny when someone observed during the 2012 GOP debates that the Mormon was the only male candidate who had had only one wife.

[The Lotophagi]

It's simple. The Republicans are so far out, they aren't remotely connected to reality.

I am talking about your average conservative base. Romney is anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-DP, anti-union, anti-global warming, against Obama's economic policies on just about every level, and a Christian. So why do the conservatives, who are all these qualities, have such a beef with him?

Well, he's a Mormon for one. There are a lot of hardcore Protestants out there who think that Mormonism isn't even Christianity. He's also a rich, east coast politician and the son of a rich, east coast politician, as opposed to an iconoclastic figure like Sarah Palin who revels in her down-to-earth heritage. He also gave birth to Romneycare, aka Obamacare today.

[Benuty]

he was governor of Massachusetts and as such did and said things that are anathema to todays conservatives.

Besides, he's a Mormon and Americans are still not quite sure about them. I have to admit, though, it was pretty funny when someone observed during the 2012 GOP debates that the Mormon was the only male candidate who had had only one wife.

Yeah, Richard Dawkins had some funny things to say about Mitt Romney (well it was more a plethora of anti-Mormonism in general).

[Ashmoria]

he was governor of Massachusetts and as such did and said things that are anathema to todays conservatives.

Besides, he's a Mormon and Americans are still not quite sure about them. I have to admit, though, it was pretty funny when someone observed during the 2012 GOP debates that the Mormon was the only male candidate who had had only one wife.

that's why his nomination was a good thing. it forced the southern Baptists to think it through and decide that being a Mormon wasn't as bad as being a democrat. religious tolerance from the political trenches.

[Ashmoria]

So Romney wants to run for 2016.

Welp, let's hope he doesn't pick a reactionary as a running mate otherwise he's fucked.

if whoever gets the nomination doesn't pick Susana Martinez of NM as running mate then he doesn't want to win.

except for jeb bush, of course, who has a Mexican wife. ...shes Mexican, right, not Hispanic American?

[Imperial Esplanade]

Do you understand the difference between "de jure" and "de facto?" If not, look it up. If so, re-read my previous statement. That'll answer your question.

Christianity is not de facto the national religion. Americans come in a variety of beliefs.

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

[Ashmoria]

Christianity is not de facto the national religion. Americans come in a variety of beliefs.

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

why don't you enlighten us in this case so we can understand exactly why what we are suggesting is wrong?

[Imperial Esplanade]

Agreed, so if you would like to continue discussing abortion, message me. Now, to try and reel this back into the topic at-hand, I think 2016 will be a big year in defining the GOP-brand moving forward. In 2012, the GOP nominated someone who appeared to be a moderate candidate, but it's safe to say his own shortcomings (mostly his flip-flopping nature) and ill-advised comments were what ended up with his defeat in the 2012 Presidential campaign.

Whether we like it or not, the United States IS, in fact, a Christian nation... but, it's a defacto Christian nation, not a dejure Christian nation. Many, but not all, conservative politicians speak of the United States being a "Christian nation" because they are Christians appealing to a overwhelmingly Christian audience... though there are numerous conservatives who are not Christian.

That said, the Republican Party has always been rooted as a party based off of Judeo-Christian ethics more so than the relatively more populist Democratic party, but the United States has systematically been deterred away from Christianity for several years now, and the Republican Party is (for whatever reason) seemingly synonymous with Christian beliefs within the United States. Of course this is simply not true, as Republicans (generally) are in favor of the death penalty and aren't nearly as concerned with the environment or the poor as they ought to be... all of which are central tenants to Christianity.

you mistake my reason for putting out these examples. It is not to debate them but to show that the party is anti-social-liberty. unless its guns. they love gun liberty.

lol

Translation: "I'm going to make a comment, and you shall not prove it wrong. You MUST accept it."

[Benuty]

Christianity is not de facto the national religion. Americans come in a variety of beliefs.

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

It really wasn't even de-facto.

I mean sure you could argue it was dominant in the US all-around ( Protestantism for many areas) until the 1960s when other religions (who were allowed, but mainly "tolerated") finally started to blossom after the ending of the immigration quotas of the 1920s.

[District XIV]

Christianity is not de facto the national religion. Americans come in a variety of beliefs.

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

The only one who needs to learn the difference is you. You're suggesting that America is a "de facto Christian" nation, even though we're secular and Christianity is neither the de facto nor de jure national religion.

[Southern Hampshire]

Christianity is not de facto the national religion. Americans come in a variety of beliefs.

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

There is nothing wrong with the comment, he seems to have gotten 'de facto' right.

[Imperial Esplanade]

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

why don't you enlighten us in this case so we can understand exactly why what we are suggesting is wrong?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20facto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto

[Ashmoria]

you mistake my reason for putting out these examples. It is not to debate them but to show that the party is anti-social-liberty. unless its guns. they love gun liberty.

lol

Translation: "I'm going to make a comment, and you shall not prove it wrong. You MUST accept it."

huh? im not disputing anything you said. are you saying that ....gay rights...ISNT a social liberty issue or that elected republicans ARENT against gay marriage? that's all im saying. the right or wrong or even nuance of the issue is irrelevant to this thread.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So Romney wants to run for 2016.

Welp, let's hope he doesn't pick a reactionary as a running mate otherwise he's fucked.

if whoever gets the nomination doesn't pick Susana Martinez of NM as running mate then he doesn't want to win.

except for jeb bush, of course, who has a Mexican wife. ...shes Mexican, right, not Hispanic American?

She is Mexican, from Guanajuato.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

It's simple. The Republicans are so far out, they aren't remotely connected to reality.

I am talking about your average conservative base. Romney is anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-DP, anti-union, anti-global warming, against Obama's economic policies on just about every level, and a Christian. So why do the conservatives, who are all these qualities, have such a beef with him?

Because some of America's conservatives are further right than Mitt. Furthermore, many people will try to find beef with any politician. Lastly, many conservatives are fine with Mitt.

[Ashmoria]

why don't you enlighten us in this case so we can understand exactly why what we are suggesting is wrong?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20facto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto

we know the difference.

we want to know how you interpret the difference in regard to the US and why YOU THINK we are wrong to say that we are not a defacto Christian nation.

[Imperial Esplanade]

lol

Translation: "I'm going to make a comment, and you shall not prove it wrong. You MUST accept it."

huh? im not disputing anything you said. are you saying that ....gay rights...ISNT a social liberty issue or that elected republicans ARENT against gay marriage? that's all im saying. the right or wrong or even nuance of the issue is irrelevant to this thread.

Yea-no, that's not what you said. At all.

Your EXACT words: "you mistake my reason for putting out these examples. It is not to debate them but to show that the party is anti-social-liberty. unless its guns. they love gun liberty."

So if you're not intending nor willing to debate or even discuss these examples, I'm just to accept them and move on? Perfect example of "Social Liberty" right there.

[Imperial Esplanade]

For ****'s sakes, learn the difference between 'de facto' and 'de jure' people!

The only one who needs to learn the difference is you. You're suggesting that America is a "de facto Christian" nation, even though we're secular and Christianity is neither the de facto nor de jure national religion.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20facto

Definition of DE FACTO
1
: actual; especially : being such in effect though not formally recognized <a de facto state of war>
2
: exercising power as if legally constituted <a de facto government>
3
: resulting from economic or social factors rather than from laws or actions of the state <de facto segregation>
See de facto defined for English-language learners »
Examples of DE FACTO

<with the death of his father, he became the de facto head of the family>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20jure

Full Definition of DE JURE
1
: by right : of right
2
: based on laws or actions of the state <de jure segregation>

Message me your address. I'm going to send you a dictionary as a late Christmas present.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

The only one who needs to learn the difference is you. You're suggesting that America is a "de facto Christian" nation, even though we're secular and Christianity is neither the de facto nor de jure national religion.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20facto

Definition of DE FACTO
1
: actual; especially : being such in effect though not formally recognized <a de facto state of war>
2
: exercising power as if legally constituted <a de facto government>
3
: resulting from economic or social factors rather than from laws or actions of the state <de facto segregation>
See de facto defined for English-language learners »
Examples of DE FACTO

<with the death of his father, he became the de facto head of the family>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20jure

Full Definition of DE JURE
1
: by right : of right
2
: based on laws or actions of the state <de jure segregation>

Message me your address. I'm going to send you a dictionary as a late Christmas present.

83% of America is Christian. Ergo, I really don't believe that we're de-facto Christian.

[Imperial Esplanade]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20facto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto

we know the difference.

we want to know how you interpret the difference in regard to the US and why YOU THINK we are wrong to say that we are not a defacto Christian nation.

That's great. Glad we got the basics down.

The United States of America is overwhelmingly made up of Christians (83%) and it shows up almost everywhere. Granted, we've seen a notable "secularization" as we try to include more faiths (and those of no faith) into our society to a greater degree, but make no mistake... it's naive to argue that modern Christianity doesn't influence each of our lives day-to-day to some degree. Many of our lawmakers base their legislation off of their personal (Christian) beliefs, many of the companies we work for (Hobby Lobby and ChicK-Fil-A are extraordinary examples) model their businesses off of personal (Christian) beliefs, and the list goes on and on and on... so while we are unquestionably a dejure secular nation, it's naive to believe we aren't a defacto Christian nation.