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Vonnerz
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Postby Vonnerz » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:48 am

Idle talk over lunch turns into a policy statement by a rightist think tank.

Questions to ask - what is C4's response to this report? Have they dismissed it out of hand? If not then I think my above statement could hold true perhaps.

Regarding the BBC...the BBC is and always has been the target of rightist think tanks and politicians. This is more gnawing at the BBC charter.

However there is a case to be made with regard to the commercial arm of the BBC. It seems that there is little transparency in terms of expenditure and subsidy of BBC programming from BBCWorld.

Having said that I see little wrong with that if there is proper transparency. This is also one of the fundamental issues with the BBC. The lack of accountability of BBC managers as well as the size of the BBC management structure.

Is the BBC bias free? Of course not. Is it a voice of whichever government is in power? Of course not. Is it the voice of the opposition? Of course not. You might ask where the bias lies then. I think the bias lies with the BBC itself...after all it needs to compete against a number of other news agencies from AFP to Reuters. If the BBC can gee up its image it will do so.
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"At the time, we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, and I said to him, "Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president."" - Rudy Guiliani, 2004 Republican National Convention

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Wallonochia
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Postby Wallonochia » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:49 am

Nadkor wrote:You know the BBC doesn't just do news, right? It has eight TV (not including numerous local variants) and countless radio stations, most of which have very little to do with the news section.


There's even a BBC America that shows reruns of Benny Hill. Hell yes.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:53 am

Wallonochia wrote:
Nadkor wrote:You know the BBC doesn't just do news, right? It has eight TV (not including numerous local variants) and countless radio stations, most of which have very little to do with the news section.


There's even a BBC America that shows reruns of Benny Hill. Hell yes.

did you ask America for permission ?
damn BBC not asking my permission.
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Vozgia
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Postby Vozgia » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:00 am

To be honest, I had no idea that the BBC wasn't a part of private business. Well, that explains why there so good with the news. :palm:
Andaluciae wrote:The Star Spangled Banner is based off of a drinking song. You can take all of your pompous, heavy, Mozart written anthems and stuff them.

The score to mine was created in a bar.

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Vonnerz
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Postby Vonnerz » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:03 am

Vozgia wrote:To be honest, I had no idea that the BBC wasn't a part of private business. Well, that explains why there so good with the news. :palm:


There are two parts - the BBC proper which is funded by the taxpayer and BBCWorld which is the commercial arm of the BBC.

I am not entirely certain of the relationship between the two in terms of subsidising BBC programming but BBC World does seem to make a tidy profit out of taxpayer funded programming....
ex nations - Vonners & Rubiconic Crossings

"At the time, we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, and I said to him, "Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president."" - Rudy Guiliani, 2004 Republican National Convention

“We had no domestic terror attacks under Bush. We’ve had one under Obama.” - Rudy Guilani, on Good Morning America 01/08/2010

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Vozgia
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Postby Vozgia » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:07 am

I didn't know that either, interesting. All of this is very foreign to me, I am an American after all. :D
Andaluciae wrote:The Star Spangled Banner is based off of a drinking song. You can take all of your pompous, heavy, Mozart written anthems and stuff them.

The score to mine was created in a bar.

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Vonnerz
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Postby Vonnerz » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:10 am

Vozgia wrote:I didn't know that either, interesting. All of this is very foreign to me, I am an American after all. :D


We all have our imperfections ;) I myself am half English half American LOL
ex nations - Vonners & Rubiconic Crossings

"At the time, we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, and I said to him, "Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president."" - Rudy Guiliani, 2004 Republican National Convention

“We had no domestic terror attacks under Bush. We’ve had one under Obama.” - Rudy Guilani, on Good Morning America 01/08/2010

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Dehn
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Postby Dehn » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:39 am

Karsol wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8458271.stm
The BBC must undergo a radical overhaul and Channel 4 should be privatised, a think tank has said in a report on the future of UK broadcasting.

The centre-right Policy Exchange "



I stopped reading after that, as should everyone.
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My 3rd Floor Flat
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Postby My 3rd Floor Flat » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:45 am

Dehn wrote:
Karsol wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8458271.stm
The BBC must undergo a radical overhaul and Channel 4 should be privatised, a think tank has said in a report on the future of UK broadcasting.

The centre-right Policy Exchange "



I stopped reading after that, as should everyone.


Exactly. I read that and went "pffft".
Nadkor wrote: One of the things you'll notice about the BBC is that it gets accused of bias by everyone.

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Vonnerz
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Postby Vonnerz » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:52 am

My 3rd Floor Flat wrote:
Dehn wrote:
Karsol wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8458271.stm
The BBC must undergo a radical overhaul and Channel 4 should be privatised, a think tank has said in a report on the future of UK broadcasting.

The centre-right Policy Exchange "



I stopped reading after that, as should everyone.


Exactly. I read that and went "pffft".


well its not like its the Centre for Policy Studies...and I do rather like to abide by the 'know your enemy' tenet...
ex nations - Vonners & Rubiconic Crossings

"At the time, we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, and I said to him, "Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president."" - Rudy Guiliani, 2004 Republican National Convention

“We had no domestic terror attacks under Bush. We’ve had one under Obama.” - Rudy Guilani, on Good Morning America 01/08/2010

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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:07 am

Karsol wrote:
Nadkor wrote:An independent think tank recommends that Channel 4 (i.e. not the BBC) be privatised and that the BBC sell its commercial wing, and that amounts to the BBC being threatened with privatisation?

That's like saying that if I got a group of ten friends together and we agreed that Channel 4 should be privatised the BBC was being threatened.

Lack of funding from the commercial wing could potentially ruin some of my programs. :(

Let's assume that there are people with money that like the BBC as it is and are willing to invest in it. People that agree with the current BBC political stance and programming. If those people buy the BBC and want to make money with it, would you be upset?
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Karsol
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Postby Karsol » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:09 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Karsol wrote:
Nadkor wrote:An independent think tank recommends that Channel 4 (i.e. not the BBC) be privatised and that the BBC sell its commercial wing, and that amounts to the BBC being threatened with privatisation?

That's like saying that if I got a group of ten friends together and we agreed that Channel 4 should be privatised the BBC was being threatened.

Lack of funding from the commercial wing could potentially ruin some of my programs. :(

Let's assume that there are people with money that like the BBC as it is and are willing to invest in it. People that agree with the current BBC political stance and programming. If those people buy the BBC and want to make money with it, would you be upset?

Yes, The market is fickle and the stance could change to get more viewers.
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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:11 am

Karsol wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Karsol wrote:
Nadkor wrote:An independent think tank recommends that Channel 4 (i.e. not the BBC) be privatised and that the BBC sell its commercial wing, and that amounts to the BBC being threatened with privatisation?

That's like saying that if I got a group of ten friends together and we agreed that Channel 4 should be privatised the BBC was being threatened.

Lack of funding from the commercial wing could potentially ruin some of my programs. :(

Let's assume that there are people with money that like the BBC as it is and are willing to invest in it. People that agree with the current BBC political stance and programming. If those people buy the BBC and want to make money with it, would you be upset?

Yes, The market is fickle and the stance could change to get more viewers.

So, you think that money (if only to pay the bills) corrupts, even the good of heart?
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Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:15 am

Natalyas wrote:The BBC News section is a powerful propaganda tool that the UK government would be foolish to surrender it has a reputation for fairness (even when it isn't) and is well regarded world wide.

As far as the entertainment section is concerned, there are two primary considerations. Did the BBC buy it or did it produce it? The BBC should not be using purchased content such as American sitcoms etc ( I don't know if they do this) . By doing this they effectively engage in unfair competition with other broadcasters. I also don't believe that they should be profiting from advertising in the same way that private broadcasters do.


I agree with you that the BBC has increasingly become a simple mouthpiece for prevailing government policy.
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Nadkor
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Postby Nadkor » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:06 am

Vonnerz wrote:
Vozgia wrote:To be honest, I had no idea that the BBC wasn't a part of private business. Well, that explains why there so good with the news. :palm:


There are two parts - the BBC proper which is funded by the taxpayer and BBCWorld which is the commercial arm of the BBC.

I am not entirely certain of the relationship between the two in terms of subsidising BBC programming but BBC World does seem to make a tidy profit out of taxpayer funded programming....

Essentially the BBC owns BBC Worldwide, and BBC Worldwide's job is to make money for the BBC to make programmes with.

Considering it makes most of its income from selling BBC shows I've never really understood where the problem lies.
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Nadkor
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Postby Nadkor » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:09 am

Pope Joan wrote:
Natalyas wrote:The BBC News section is a powerful propaganda tool that the UK government would be foolish to surrender it has a reputation for fairness (even when it isn't) and is well regarded world wide.

As far as the entertainment section is concerned, there are two primary considerations. Did the BBC buy it or did it produce it? The BBC should not be using purchased content such as American sitcoms etc ( I don't know if they do this) . By doing this they effectively engage in unfair competition with other broadcasters. I also don't believe that they should be profiting from advertising in the same way that private broadcasters do.


I agree with you that the BBC has increasingly become a simple mouthpiece for prevailing government policy.


One of the things you'll notice about the BBC is that it gets accused of bias by everyone.
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I think we need more post-coital and less post-rock
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Vonnerz
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Postby Vonnerz » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:13 am

Nadkor wrote:
Vonnerz wrote:
Vozgia wrote:To be honest, I had no idea that the BBC wasn't a part of private business. Well, that explains why there so good with the news. :palm:


There are two parts - the BBC proper which is funded by the taxpayer and BBCWorld which is the commercial arm of the BBC.

I am not entirely certain of the relationship between the two in terms of subsidising BBC programming but BBC World does seem to make a tidy profit out of taxpayer funded programming....

Essentially the BBC owns BBC Worldwide, and BBC Worldwide's job is to make money for the BBC to make programmes with.

Considering it makes most of its income from selling BBC shows I've never really understood where the problem lies.


Because the charter (from what I understand anyway) limits the BBC in terms of commercial enterprises. Not sure if you remember the uproar regarding the ACORN/BBC computer thing back in the early 80's or not but that was deemed a questionable activity by many yet swiftly swept under the carpet...
ex nations - Vonners & Rubiconic Crossings

"At the time, we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous, I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, and I said to him, "Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president."" - Rudy Guiliani, 2004 Republican National Convention

“We had no domestic terror attacks under Bush. We’ve had one under Obama.” - Rudy Guilani, on Good Morning America 01/08/2010

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Abdju
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Postby Abdju » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:41 am

Nadkor wrote:
Vonnerz wrote:
Vozgia wrote:To be honest, I had no idea that the BBC wasn't a part of private business. Well, that explains why there so good with the news. :palm:


There are two parts - the BBC proper which is funded by the taxpayer and BBCWorld which is the commercial arm of the BBC.

I am not entirely certain of the relationship between the two in terms of subsidising BBC programming but BBC World does seem to make a tidy profit out of taxpayer funded programming....

Essentially the BBC owns BBC Worldwide, and BBC Worldwide's job is to make money for the BBC to make programmes with.

Considering it makes most of its income from selling BBC shows I've never really understood where the problem lies.


I agree. Provided the BBC is the one in command of it's commercial subsidary, using it to meet it's mandate, and not vice versa, I don't see a problem. It's when the commercialism dictates what is produced, how and why, that is the cause for concern.

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My 3rd Floor Flat
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Postby My 3rd Floor Flat » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:49 am

Nadkor wrote:
One of the things you'll notice about the BBC is that it gets accused of bias by everyone.


Sigged ^^
Nadkor wrote: One of the things you'll notice about the BBC is that it gets accused of bias by everyone.

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Crabulonia wrote:^ Very pleased that 3rd Floor Flat is voting same as I.

3rd floor flat is pretty sharp so you can count yourself lucky.

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Helertia
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Postby Helertia » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:54 am

This is the same "think tank" (Septic tank?) that recommended we abandon the north and come to live in the lovely sunny south
So this report is a good thing, in a way. Everyone hates it, the incumbent Prime Minister backs off from privatising it and Policy Exchange loses more credibility, which is wonderful
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Inchland
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Postby Inchland » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:54 am

I think the BBC is a fine station with very good quality progamming, They really shouldn't be changed
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Karsol
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Postby Karsol » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:55 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Karsol wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Karsol wrote:
Nadkor wrote:An independent think tank recommends that Channel 4 (i.e. not the BBC) be privatised and that the BBC sell its commercial wing, and that amounts to the BBC being threatened with privatisation?

That's like saying that if I got a group of ten friends together and we agreed that Channel 4 should be privatised the BBC was being threatened.

Lack of funding from the commercial wing could potentially ruin some of my programs. :(

Let's assume that there are people with money that like the BBC as it is and are willing to invest in it. People that agree with the current BBC political stance and programming. If those people buy the BBC and want to make money with it, would you be upset?

Yes, The market is fickle and the stance could change to get more viewers.

So, you think that money (if only to pay the bills) corrupts, even the good of heart?

Did not The phrophet Jesus say that in the temple of Jerusalem?
01010000 01100101 01101110 01101001 01110011 00100001 00100001 00100001
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Olof Palme, the Prime Minister of Sweden: "No, I want to abolish the poor."

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:56 am

Inchland wrote:I think the BBC is a fine station with very good quality progamming, They really shouldn't be changed

It's like Murdouche's son having a bitch about it, that it owns too much of the market and it ought to be disbanded, so that Fox can get its fangs more deeply embedded into the British populace.

They only dislike it because it isn't doing what they want.
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Imitora
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Postby Imitora » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 am

As an American...

This is gonna suck. One of the major reasons Top Gear is as good as it is, and would fail in the US, is because it isn't beholden to sponsors. If Clarkson, Capt. Slow, and Hammond have to follow what sponsors tell them to for funding...oh that is just fucking fail.

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Inchland
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Postby Inchland » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 am

Tagmatium wrote:
Inchland wrote:I think the BBC is a fine station with very good quality progamming, They really shouldn't be changed

It's like Murdouche's son having a bitch about it, that it owns too much of the market and it ought to be disbanded, so that Fox can get its fangs more deeply embedded into the British populace.

They only dislike it because it isn't doing what they want.


Ok, so maybe i kinda like the BBC a lot... :blush:
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