French mag. Charlie Hebdo--12 killed, many injured in attack

[Edgy Opinions]

Answer the fucking question.

People don't care in their defense of terrible ideologies very often.

Justifying the removal of people's human rights will not end well.

Indeed. I'd better get people to abandon our social structure instead and turn this whole conflict void in great part as a result.

Do I believe some international law-abiding solution will end this conflict while we function in the capitalism system? No.

[Geilinor]

And they will certainly get that in America too. With the added benefit of reaching their much vaunted martyr-ism too.

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with making them another country's problem. If you want them executed, you'll have to deal with it some other way.

[Aelex]

Not anymore.

Who said so?

Well, our constitution. We strip a lot of "Collabos" of their nationality back in the end of WW2... Why not the Djihadists?

[The Carlisle]

Answer the fucking question.

People don't care in their defense of terrible ideologies very often.

Justifying the removal of people's human rights will not end well.

Indeed. I'd better get people to abandon our social structure instead and turn this whole conflict void in great part as a result.

Do I believe some international law-abiding solution will end this conflict while we function in the capitalism system? No.

I don't give a fuck what they have done. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being. And I don't give a fuck about the system we are in. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being.

[Imperializt Russia]

Who said so?

Well, our constitution. We strip a lot of "Collabos" of their nationality back in the end of WW2... Why not the Djihadists?

Because now there is a UN commitment to prevent statelessness.

[Cedoria]

You don't think Christianity and Judaism can apply their repugnant scriptures in society?

Cough, Israel (Judaism) Cough USA (Christianity)

So yes. I can say that they all apply repugnant social beliefs in different countries, but we don't go around bashing Christianity as part of mainstream political dialogue do we, and woe betide anybody who dares criticise the mighty Israel, in America anyway.

Where are people dying at the hands of Christians for using the Lord's name in vain?

In Israel? America? Dang. I didn't hear about it. It sounds like big news however. In fact, I don't recall anyone dying for sodomy in either nations too. Or usury in America. Or wearing clothes of two fibers. Hum.

No, we do. Maybe you don't in America, being the only overwhelmingly religious developed nation on Earth, whose politicians swear by the Bible, but we do. The developed, historically Christian world extends beyond America.

Not necessarily saying that Christianity is killing people for doing that, simply pointing out that this is what Christian scriptures say should happen. They did kill many people for all of those crimes in centuries past however, and there are fundamentalist Christians in countries who would bring those beliefs to the forefront if they could. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean that they don't believe it.
There are Palestinians dying every day because of a repugnant, antiquated belief that Israel is the Promised Land of the Jews, so that causes much harm as well.
I'm not in America, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of the politics.

I fully condemn this attack, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those who argue that Islam is the problem, or argue that having solely Christian migrants would somehow make the problem better.

[Edgy Opinions]

I don't give a fuck what they have done. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being. And I don't give a fuck about the system we are in. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being.

They deserve a fair trial.

The Constitutional punishment for religious terrorism should be to be left with solely the help of God.

[Aelex]

I don't give a fuck what they have done. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being. And I don't give a fuck about the system we are in. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being.

You know, you're speaking about Les Droits de L'Homme again and again...
But they're not humans anymore. They're just animals who are excited by the blood and who want to spill some...

[Kaztropol]

Mocking Allah leads to death (Islam), Mocking Christian God leads to death (Christianity)
See any difference?

In the UK, the last execution for blasphemy was 1697.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead
and the last execution for heresy was 1612.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Wightman

So there's a difference.

[Baltenstein]

Two out of the three perpetrators are apparently Paris-born Frenchmen, the third is from an as-of-yet unspecified other country.

[Scomagia]

I don't give a fuck what they have done. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being. And I don't give a fuck about the system we are in. They deserve a fair trial like any other human being.

You know, you're speaking about Les Droits de L'Homme again and again...
But they're not humans anymore. They're just animals who are excited by the blood and who want to spill some...

Really? I'm pretty sure that if you tested their DNA, they'd still come up as Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

[Aelex]

Well, our constitution. We strip a lot of "Collabos" of their nationality back in the end of WW2... Why not the Djihadists?

Because now there is a UN commitment to prevent statelessness.

Well, let us handle our own things how we want, after all, this is only a national matter. Not an international one.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Thank you for your patience while I look through some reports on this thread.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

First off, Sun Wukong - 2 demerits for misquoting lyrics. Apologize to the 80's and Alphaville. Ye gods man, I remember when this album came out and I wore that tape into nigh oblivion. Shame. Shaaaaame.

----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Now on to the serious issues.

New Werpland: This is not the thread for Israeli discussion. We have a megathread for that. If you see some parallels, feel free to address them there rather than continue threadjacking here. Thanks.

Quintium: Even though you gave a content warning, you cannot link to videos or sites of videos showing people being executed. Not on our site. While I can appreciate reasoning for it, our site rules explicitly state that we cannot allow graphic content to be posted, of various varieties.
*** Warned for linking to graphic video ***

Aelex: You've had a warning per month so far here the past three running, including this one. You need to sit down, take a look at the rules, and adjust your posting methods appropriately. We do not get to namecall one another simply because we disagree with what someone else has posted, mkay?
*** Warned for flaming ***

To everyone else, please, please please - this is a very emotional topic for many, a lot of people are very upset about it, and as such, tempers are touchy, opinions are getting more prickly when posted, and as a group, we need to attempt to maintain our collective cool while discussing. Doing otherwise isn't going to get anyone anywhere, and the best outcome that way is a locked thread.

Be civil, even if you don't feel like it. Express your outrage in a constructive manner if you can. And if you haven't had enough time to chilly down while I've been addressing the reports, take a few more minutes and come back when you're able. Thanks.

[Baltenstein]

It looks like French police may have captured the bad guys:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... 977f448fda

A spokesman for the French police tells the Guardian’s Kim Willsher in Paris that authorities have arrested three suspects in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
However Kim points out that the interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, addressed the media not long ago and did not mention arrests.
More details to come.

[Olerand]

They're French. They either go to French courts or the ICC.

Hence why I said my wishes were fantastical.

Politicians are not required to swear by the Bible.

Who said they were required to?

I'd put those idiots at about 20~35% of them. The rest are the descendants of immigrants. For whatever goddamn reason, they are more fanatical than their parents could have ever imagined.

I'll say, personnaly, that we're not as fanatical in our education of citizenship as before... I do miss a lot the good old "Nos Ancêtres les Gaulois"...

This is a result of our politicians relinquishing integration. We have to bring it back.

And they will certainly get that in America too. With the added benefit of reaching their much vaunted martyr-ism too.

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with making them another country's problem. If you want them executed, you'll have to deal with it some other way.

I don't want to make it someone else's problem. But I am opposed to us going back on our massive progression of abandoning the death penalty for these losers. I am willing to extradite them to Japan, China, or anyone that wants them.

L'Orient-Le Jour, a prestigious Lebanese newspaper, is reporting celebratory gun shots in a Palestinian camp of Lebanon after the declaration of the events in Paris. So, we know some aren't in mourning tonight.
http://www.lorientlejour.com/article/904420/attaque-contre-charlie-hebdo-tirs-de-joie-a-ain-el-heloue-au-liban-lbci.html

The brothers are of Algerian-descent. The third not yet established.

[Edgy Opinions]

I'd put those idiots at about 20~35% of them. The rest are the descendants of immigrants. For whatever goddamn reason, they are more fanatical than their parents could have ever imagined.

I'll say, personnaly, that we're not as fanatical in our education of citizenship as before... I do miss a lot the good old "Nos Ancêtres les Gaulois"...

Wouldn't it be "nos ancêtres les gaulois"?

I have an allergy to people using English uppercase when writing Romance languages, yes.

[United Marxist Nations]

It looks like French police may have captured the bad guys:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... 977f448fda

A spokesman for the French police tells the Guardian’s Kim Willsher in Paris that authorities have arrested three suspects in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
However Kim points out that the interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, addressed the media not long ago and did not mention arrests.
More details to come.

On CNN, they said it was a miscommunication, and that they have just been identified.

[Edgy Opinions]

I don't want to make it someone else's problem. But I am opposed to us going back on our massive progression of abandoning the death penalty for these losers. I am willing to extradite them to Japan, China, or anyone that wants them.

L'Orient-Le Jour, a prestigious Lebanese newspaper, is reporting celebratory gun shots in a Palestinian camp of Lebanon after the declaration of the events in Paris. So, we know some aren't in mourning tonight.
http://www.lorientlejour.com/article/904420/attaque-contre-charlie-hebdo-tirs-de-joie-a-ain-el-heloue-au-liban-lbci.html

The brothers are of Algerian-descent. The third not yet established.

Hey, now, the more we confirm it as an identity issue, the more we pave ground to what they want.

[Lytenburgh]

The situation with “anti-Islamic” cartoons is nothing new – there were murdered people after that story about the Danish humorists nearly a decade ago. So this, well, “execution” of the “guilty” cartoonists and everyone else who just happened to be nearby, is Islamists way of directly bringing war to “Enemy’s” homeland. Previously, all these disparate Islamist groups were just that - disparate, but now they have their own state which became a "Beacon” of Islamic radicalism. And here we have a situation of the French cartoonists in the country of maximum tolerance to intolerantly portray them and the Prophet. Obviously, Islamists won’t tolerate this.

This situation is kinda schizophrenic in the fact, that France has fallen victim to an inherent contradiction - on the one hand. the government preaches maximum tolerance in everything - from the race and thought to gender identity and sexual preferences. On the other hand - the freedom of speech gives an opportunity for intolerant statements, which by virtue of tolerant censorship, are considered to be humor, jokes and the like. As a result, Western Europe which prides itself for its tolerance, in fact, produces all new reasons to incite ethnic and religious hatred, including on its own territory, which, as the direct result of the policy of multiculturalism, populates an abundant number of persons professing Islam, including its radical forms. Which is kinda a reverse side of multiculturalism and tolerance. In fact, they themselves have created this purulent wound, with which they do not know what to do, yet continuously poke it with a rusty nail, watching the occasionally pus spurting out in all directions.

Regarding the terrorists who have killed so many "crusader satirists" directly on the French territory, it’s worth reminding that during the period of Arab Spring in Yemen (where it overthrew the local autocrat), the Western press, including French, happily depict the triumphant march of the “Freedom and Democracy in the Middle East”. Well, here the children of this very "Arab Spring" decided to stop and visit local “benefactors” and “humorists” who drew cartoons about them. A meeting of authors with readers, so to speak. The locals were clearly not happy with the outcome, “guest” - on the contrary.

The situation is such, that for the proponents of radical Islam fighting for their only True State (with promises of Paradise and houris), even any innocent attempt to make fun of the Prophet would be seen as an act of war committed by the infidels. Europe, sorta, reacts to this, but, due to the Holy Principle of Freedom of Speech, at the same time, continues to preach about Multiculturalism and Tolerance while also organizing, together with the US, aggression and bombings against the Islamic world. Therefore, it’s hardly surprising that ISIS (or whatever) decided that there would be no other reaction but violence. Attempts to insist on the Holy Right of journalists to throw feces with impunity at everything Islamic fundamentalists consider Holy and Sacred – while simultaneously printing stories about “respect for Islam”, won’t lead to anything but new dead, blood and hatred, and the more Caliphate will develop, the more direct will be its impact not only to the surrounding Middle Eastern autocracies, but also on the "crusaders" country's. France should decide and do something, because the right of freedom of expression directly provokes ethnic and religious hatred. It doesn’t really matter whether some likes or dislikes the very notion of it, but the fact remains that we have already seen more than once that some "witty jokes" might be followed by corpses if witty cartoonists or bearded fanatics, or very random (and totally innocent) people.

By the way, in comparison - in a recent attack of militants on Grozny, there were more numerous and they were armed way too better. Nevertheless, almost all were caught and/or eliminated. Here terrorists have disappeared into an unknown direction while taking car and its driver hostage, leaving a trail of blood in their wake.

Irrespective of whether they would catch these terrorists or not, the result is quite obvious - the position of the right (like Le Pen and even Sarkozy) would be strengthened, as well as nationalist sentiments – as well as increase of the radicalism of local adherents of Islam. If Caliphate and related organizations will become stronger and survive the air-strikes a and bombings rather intact, then they will continue to send their “Holy Warriors” into Western Europe, with the aim to spread here the word of the Prophet with such methods like explosives or 7.62 bullets right in the head. Some of “humorists” after this story, will, obviously be more thoughtful and activate self-censorship (there are lot of things to make fun of amidst the “acceptable targets”, after all), someone, on the contrary, will decide in principle to continue batter humorously Muhammed, which will occasionally result in not humorous consequences. There wouldn’t be any reasonable measures that would fundamentally change something, so there will be bombs, and explosions, and the dead, and humor. After all, the theme of Islamic fanatics, according to some cartoonists, very funny.

P.S.

An “innocent victim of Putin’s regime” (tm), that after his official pardon receives more and more Western funding for “developing of democracy in Russia”, M. Khodorkovsky said his Word:

Khodorkovsky urged the media to publish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad

Former Yukos CEO Mikhail Khodorkovsky in his Twitter called on the media to publish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

At the same time, Khodorkovsky expressed condolences to the families of journalists killed in the terrorist attack in Paris.

Strangely enough, Mr. Khodorkovsky didn’t suggest (in the same spirit of Tolerance and Freedom of Press) to publish cartoons of Holocaust or the Jews.

[Baltenstein]

It looks like French police may have captured the bad guys:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... 977f448fda

On CNN, they said it was a miscommunication, and that they have just been identified.

I'm not sure what I prefer:

That those three guys get to meet their 72 virigns over the next 24 hours, or that they are properly arrested and tried before the eyes of the world.
Probably the latter.

[Olerand]

I don't want to make it someone else's problem. But I am opposed to us going back on our massive progression of abandoning the death penalty for these losers. I am willing to extradite them to Japan, China, or anyone that wants them.

L'Orient-Le Jour, a prestigious Lebanese newspaper, is reporting celebratory gun shots in a Palestinian camp of Lebanon after the declaration of the events in Paris. So, we know some aren't in mourning tonight.
http://www.lorientlejour.com/article/904420/attaque-contre-charlie-hebdo-tirs-de-joie-a-ain-el-heloue-au-liban-lbci.html

The brothers are of Algerian-descent. The third not yet established.

Hey, now, the more we confirm it as an identity issue, the more we pave ground to what they want.

You're right. They did it because today's croissants were absolutely atrocious in their favorite bakery in Seine-Saint-Denis.

Absolutely atrocious it was today. Terrible. Soggy and tasted of uncooked eggs.

[Risottia]

Because now there is a UN commitment to prevent statelessness.

Well, let us handle our own things how we want, after all, this is only a national matter. Not an international one.

The ECHR is French law. French law, iirc, also specifies penalties for enlisting enemy armies, or for joining terrorist organisations, even abroad.

[Olerand]

On CNN, they said it was a miscommunication, and that they have just been identified.

I'm not sure what I prefer:

That those three guys get to meet their 72 virigns over the next 24 hours, or that they are properly arrested and tried before the eyes of the world.
Probably the latter.

No. Considering most French jails are either new and comfortable, or old with Facebook accounts depicting the sweet life inside(literally happened), I don't want them there for life.

I would rather they find their virgins. But we can't do it. Unfortunately.

[United Marxist Nations]

On CNN, they said it was a miscommunication, and that they have just been identified.

I'm not sure what I prefer:

That those three guys get to meet their 72 virigns over the next 24 hours, or that they are properly arrested and tried before the eyes of the world.
Probably the latter.

Pictured: their 72 Virgins.