French mag. Charlie Hebdo--12 killed, many injured in attack

[Arcanda]

Hayat Boumediene is still out there. Do you think her intention now is to escape, lay low, or carry out a new ambush/hold up a place to create another incident to carry on the Jihad for her dead husband? It has been quiet, so I think she is in the process of escaping to Yemen. I fear she's not in France now and could be out of Europe to Turkey or North Africa.

I think she's still in France.In fact, maybe she's still in Paris.And no, I doubt she'll do djihad.If they didn't find any traces of explosives at her husband's apartment, how would she do that ?

[Evil the Great]

I think she's still in France.In fact, maybe she's still in Paris.And no, I doubt she'll do djihad.If they didn't find any traces of explosives at her husband's apartment, how would she do that ?

Guns. They all used guns, no explosives.

[Arcanda]

I think she's still in France.In fact, maybe she's still in Paris.And no, I doubt she'll do djihad.If they didn't find any traces of explosives at her husband's apartment, how would she do that ?

Guns. They all used guns, no explosives.

Wouldn't the forensic units find powder, then ? Unless they hide them really well.
And, those three guys had to be trained.Not sure if they train women in Yewen.

[Novorobo]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/01 ... .html?_r=0

[Cherif Kouachi] was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 2008 for trying to join up with fighters battling in Iraq.

Congratulations, France. Several innocent people are dead because you gave someone with murderous intentions a second chance you never owed him in the first place.

[Phocidaea]

What were they writing at the time? Did they fight back? It sounds like they were asking to get killed.

Sarcasm, obviously. Unfortunately, a good number of people have said that, many of them the same ones who (rightfully) call out people who use that rhetoric toward rape victims.

[Miasto Lodz]

And now the magazine which sacked one of his cartoonists for satire on Sakozy's son is suddenly considered a beacon of freedom of speach. Give me a break.

[Arkolon]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/01/08/world/europe/ap-eu-france-attack-suspects.html?_r=0

[Cherif Kouachi] was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 2008 for trying to join up with fighters battling in Iraq.

Congratulations, France. Several innocent people are dead because you gave someone with murderous intentions a second chance you never owed him in the first place.

Prison psychologists put him through rehabilitation and concluded that he regretted and overcame his extremist ambitions. He is reported to have admitted having been confused about the situation, and then returned to society to live as a regular citizen, but was placed on a watchlist. Notice how he didn't act again for seven years, and he was anyway on the French police's watchlist of 4,000-5,000 people that could have committed the attack on January 7 and 9. Don't pretend you want to live in a society where all prisoners are locked up for life if they have convictions to do something wrong, bearing in mind that these people are weak at the time they are indoctrinated, that Cherif never even went to Iraq, and most give up their ambitions after leaving rehabilitation prisons. The French police did what they could in the bounds of legality, and they responded to the attacks well. It's a shame that people died, but there is no way French city police can stop terrorists armed with Kalashnikovs from killing or wounding anyone without premature knowledge of such an attack.

[Novorobo]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/01/08/world/europe/ap-eu-france-attack-suspects.html?_r=0



Congratulations, France. Several innocent people are dead because you gave someone with murderous intentions a second chance you never owed him in the first place.

Prison psychologists put him through rehabilitation and concluded that he regretted and overcame his extremist ambitions. He is reported to have admitted having been confused about the situation, and then returned to society to live as a regular citizen, but was placed on a watchlist. Notice how he didn't act again for seven years, and he was anyway on the French police's watchlist of 4,000-5,000 people that could have committed the attack on January 7 and 9. Don't pretend you want to live in a society where all prisoners are locked up for life if they have convictions to do something wrong, bearing in mind that these people are weak at the time they are indoctrinated, that Cherif never even went to Iraq, and most give up their ambitions after leaving rehabilitation prisons. The French police did what they could in the bounds of legality, and they responded to the attacks well. It's a shame that people died, but there is no way French city police can stop terrorists armed with Kalashnikovs from killing or wounding anyone without premature knowledge of such an attack.

Trying to rehabilitate thieves or drug users is one thing, but murderous thugs aren't worth the risk to the innocent. I would absolutely prefer they be locked up for life.

The "psychologists" were clearly wrong on this. Might be time to re-evaluate how much weight we lend their words.

[Saiwania]

It turns out that the US like France, has some "no go" zones of its own. The following urban areas in the US are under the control of potential Jihadists: Dearborn, Michigan. Paterson, New Jersey (which features Arabic street signs). The Muslim quarter of Jersey City, New Jersey, between Journal Square and New Jersey City University. Northern Virginia is projected to get a large Muslim population moving in, so that is another place of concern within a year or two.

At least 35 terrorist training camps run by Jamaat ul-Fuqra across America, from California to New York. For all the false talk about how the USA assimilates Muslim immigrants better than Europe does, they will still be more of a problem than they would be, if there were very few adherents to Islam in the US.

[Beta Test]

It turns out that the US like France, has some "no go" zones of its own. The following urban areas in the US are under the control of potential Jihadists: Dearborn, Michigan. Paterson, New Jersey (with features Arabic street signs). The Muslim quarter of Jersey City, New Jersey, between Journal Square and New Jersey City University. Northern Virginia is projected to get a large Muslim population moving in, so that is another place of concern within a year or two.

At least 35 terrorist training camps run by Jamaat ul-Fuqra across America, from California to New York.

Could you source this?

[Bari]

It turns out that the US like France, has some "no go" zones of its own. The following urban areas in the US are under the control of potential Jihadists: Dearborn, Michigan. Paterson, New Jersey (with features Arabic street signs). The Muslim quarter of Jersey City, New Jersey, between Journal Square and New Jersey City University. Northern Virginia is projected to get a large Muslim population moving in, so that is another place of concern within a year or two.

At least 35 terrorist training camps run by Jamaat ul-Fuqra across America, from California to New York.

Could you source this?

The top paragraph is old news. Nothing new about that. There's footage of two Christians (I believe priests) walking down the street and being attacked by a mob of Muslims. There was an officer present, watched the attack and did nothing because there were too many of them. This was in Dearborn. I may be mistaken in some details.

Those no go zones aren't recognized like they are in France though.

The second section is something I've heard from one organization. I forgot what it's called though.

[Phocidaea]

Muslim extremism (and unwillingness to assimilate, but that's gonna be more controversial) is a valid concern but the "no go zone" thing is a transparent right-wing dogwhistle.

[Liriena]

Suffice to say, the deaths of innocents are regrettable, and the actions of the culprits are despicable.

Whatever these were trying to accomplish, they clearly failed: Charlie Hebdo is now defended by Muslims and non-Muslims alike across the world, the entire Muslim community in France (and the vast majority of the the world, really) seems to have gone out of its way to condemn these acts of terror, and the offensive cartoons in questions are now more visible than ever.

Now, with that said... Charlie Hebdo is hardly a publication worthy of sainthood. It had every right to create, publish and distribute their cartoons without fear of violent retribution, but many of their cartoons were not just "blasphemous", but also blatantly racist. It didn't make them deserving of this, no more than the people at the kosher market, but for the sake of honesty it should not be forgotten.

Also... I see an awful lot of Islamophobic nonsense on this thread. That's always a treat.

[Gauthier]

Suffice to say, the deaths of innocents are regrettable, and the actions of the culprits are despicable.

Whatever these were trying to accomplish, they clearly failed: Charlie Hebdo is now defended by Muslims and non-Muslims alike across the world, the entire Muslim community in France (and the vast majority of the the world, really) seems to have gone out of its way to condemn these acts of terror, and the offensive cartoons in questions are now more visible than ever.

Now, with that said... Charlie Hebdo is hardly a publication worthy of sainthood. It had every right to create, publish and distribute their cartoons without fear of violent retribution, but many of their cartoons were not just "blasphemous", but also blatantly racist. It didn't make them deserving of this, no more than the people at the kosher market, but for the sake of honesty it should not be forgotten.

Of course chances are likely people will forget or ignore than Muslims loudly condemned the attacks and that a Muslim police officer was killed in the attacks to continue the narrative that Muslims are genetically hostile to the Western way of life.

[Chestaan]

Suffice to say, the deaths of innocents are regrettable, and the actions of the culprits are despicable.

Whatever these were trying to accomplish, they clearly failed: Charlie Hebdo is now defended by Muslims and non-Muslims alike across the world, the entire Muslim community in France (and the vast majority of the the world, really) seems to have gone out of its way to condemn these acts of terror, and the offensive cartoons in questions are now more visible than ever.

Now, with that said... Charlie Hebdo is hardly a publication worthy of sainthood. It had every right to create, publish and distribute their cartoons without fear of violent retribution, but many of their cartoons were not just "blasphemous", but also blatantly racist. It didn't make them deserving of this, no more than the people at the kosher market, but for the sake of honesty it should not be forgotten.

Also... I see an awful lot of Islamophobic nonsense on this thread. That's always a treat.

You hit the nail on the head. The fact that the magazine was attacked doesn't make their racist cartoons any less racist.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Could you source this?

The top paragraph is old news. Nothing new about that. There's footage of two Christians (I believe priests) walking down the street and being attacked by a mob of Muslims. There was an officer present, watched the attack and did nothing because there were too many of them. This was in Dearborn. I may be mistaken in some details.

You may be mistaken in some details, indeed.

[North Calaveras]

Suffice to say, the deaths of innocents are regrettable, and the actions of the culprits are despicable.

Whatever these were trying to accomplish, they clearly failed: Charlie Hebdo is now defended by Muslims and non-Muslims alike across the world, the entire Muslim community in France (and the vast majority of the the world, really) seems to have gone out of its way to condemn these acts of terror, and the offensive cartoons in questions are now more visible than ever.

Now, with that said... Charlie Hebdo is hardly a publication worthy of sainthood. It had every right to create, publish and distribute their cartoons without fear of violent retribution, but many of their cartoons were not just "blasphemous", but also blatantly racist. It didn't make them deserving of this, no more than the people at the kosher market, but for the sake of honesty it should not be forgotten.

Also... I see an awful lot of Islamophobic nonsense on this thread. That's always a treat.

You hit the nail on the head. The fact that the magazine was attacked doesn't make their racist cartoons any less racist.

what they posted has absolutley nothing to do with what happend, they were pratciting freedom of speech, i don't care if it was muhammed sitting on a pig dick, it should be forgotten because they did nothing wrong.

[Chestaan]

You hit the nail on the head. The fact that the magazine was attacked doesn't make their racist cartoons any less racist.

what they posted has absolutley nothing to do with what happend, they were pratciting freedom of speech, i don't care if it was muhammed sitting on a pig dick, it should be forgotten because they did nothing wrong.

Like Liriena said, what has happened doesn't make them saints. Nobody is saying that the extremists were right to do what they did.

[Liriena]

what they posted has absolutley nothing to do with what happend,

I'm pretty sure Charlie Hebdo was targeted specifically because they were perceived by these extremists as blasphemous, due to their depictions of Mohammed.

Of course, that doesn't mean it was the victims' fault. People should not have any reason to expect violence as a response to something that, though perhaps tasteless, is perfectly legal.

they were pratciting freedom of speech,

Indeed they were. That doesn't mean we cannot acknowledge the fact that some of their cartoons were not merely "blasphemous", but also showed underlying prejudices that went beyond satirical criticism of Islamic doctrine.

i don't care if it was muhammed sitting on a pig dick, it should be forgotten because they did nothing wrong.

Indeed, they didn't do anything worthy of death, or any sort of physical or legal punishment. However, Charlie Hebdo did at times publish cartoons that were worthy of criticism. Not to acknowledge this would be a manipulation of historical truth, one that would simplify and devoid all of the parts involved in this tragic episode of their humanity. To pretend that Charlie Hebdo, as a publication, was perfect in any way, shape or form would be a disservice to the publication and the people who lost their lives.

Look, I am a fan of J.R.R. Tolkien. I worship the guy. I admire him as a novelist, as a philologist, and as a human being... but he was not perfect, and pretending that he was would be a disservice to his legacy.

[Phocidaea]

I hate the way people dismiss any criticism or mockery of Islam as "Islamophobia" and assume it must be coded racism* or hatred of Muslims as individuals. If I drew a satirical cartoon of Jesus, the only people who would claim I was "Christophobic", "anti-white"*, and hateful of Christians as people would be the Christian right themselves, and the progressive left in particular would rightfully dismiss the claim. But because Muslims are "POC"* they get a pass.

*I realize "Muslim" isn't a race but a lot of people, both defensive and critical of Islam, assume "Muslim = Brown".

[Liriena]

I hate the way people dismiss any criticism or mockery of Islam as "Islamophobia" and assume it must be coded racism* or hatred of Muslims as individuals.

What "people"? Try to be specific.

[Chestaan]

I hate the way people dismiss any criticism or mockery of Islam as "Islamophobia" and assume it must be coded racism* or hatred of Muslims as individuals. If I drew a satirical cartoon of Jesus, the only people who would claim I was "Christophobic", "anti-white"*, and hateful of Christians as people would be the Christian right themselves, and the progressive left in particular would rightfully dismiss the claim. But because Muslims are "POC"* they get a pass.

*I realize "Muslim" isn't a race but a lot of people, both defensive and critical of Islam, assume "Muslim = Brown".

^^Implying Boko Haram sex slaves are welfare leeches. Racist.

[Geilinor]

Suffice to say, the deaths of innocents are regrettable, and the actions of the culprits are despicable.

Whatever these were trying to accomplish, they clearly failed: Charlie Hebdo is now defended by Muslims and non-Muslims alike across the world, the entire Muslim community in France (and the vast majority of the the world, really) seems to have gone out of its way to condemn these acts of terror, and the offensive cartoons in questions are now more visible than ever.

Now, with that said... Charlie Hebdo is hardly a publication worthy of sainthood. It had every right to create, publish and distribute their cartoons without fear of violent retribution, but many of their cartoons were not just "blasphemous", but also blatantly racist. It didn't make them deserving of this, no more than the people at the kosher market, but for the sake of honesty it should not be forgotten.

Also... I see an awful lot of Islamophobic nonsense on this thread. That's always a treat.

You hit the nail on the head. The fact that the magazine was attacked doesn't make their racist cartoons any less racist.

The week of the attack is a bad time to criticize the cartoons. By the way, have you seen the cartoon?

[Geilinor]

I hate the way people dismiss any criticism or mockery of Islam as "Islamophobia" and assume it must be coded racism* or hatred of Muslims as individuals. If I drew a satirical cartoon of Jesus, the only people who would claim I was "Christophobic", "anti-white"*, and hateful of Christians as people would be the Christian right themselves, and the progressive left in particular would rightfully dismiss the claim. But because Muslims are "POC"* they get a pass.

*I realize "Muslim" isn't a race but a lot of people, both defensive and critical of Islam, assume "Muslim = Brown".

^^Implying Boko Haram sex slaves are welfare leeches. Racist.

That cartoon isn't what provoked the attack, the Muhammad one did.

[Liriena]

The week of the attack is a bad time to criticize the cartoons.

Fair point.