French mag. Charlie Hebdo--12 killed, many injured in attack

[James Deans]

damn, those frenchs didn't deserve to die like that.

[Ethel mermania]

I think a nation has the Right to demand it's immigrants buy into the nations ideals. If you move to western Europe I think believing in women's freedom, and not hating gays should be enterance requirements. If you check no on the form, your immigration papers should be rejected.

That seems unfair, given the fact that many people who aren't immigrants in western countries are quite socially conservative. We shouldn't reject people based on their ideology, it goes against freedom of opinion, a value that Western nations hold highly.

Life is unfair, citizens have different rights than non citizens virtually everywhere.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

That seems unfair, given the fact that many people who aren't immigrants in western countries are quite socially conservative. We shouldn't reject people based on their ideology, it goes against freedom of opinion, a value that Western nations hold highly.

Life is unfair, citizens have different rights than non citizens virtually everywhere.

Personally, I think freedom of opinion is a universal human right, not a right reserved for citizens in certain countries. Just because someone in Iran doesn't have freedom of opinion under their government, should they not have that right?

[Ifreann]

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims. Over a billion, I believe. But perhaps you aren't aware of the content of the post I'm objecting to.

If we start counting iran, Saudi arabia, and other Muslim only countries, your going to find quite a bit of agreement with the three fellows in france.

That's a fine non sequitur you have there.

[The Lotophagi]

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims. Over a billion, I believe. But perhaps you aren't aware of the content of the post I'm objecting to.

If we start counting iran, Saudi arabia, and other Muslim only countries, your going to find quite a bit of agreement with the three fellows in france.

Iran is dominated by Shi'ites. Shi'ites have been the number one favourite target of Sunni extremists and ISIS since the very beginning. For every bombing or attack in the West there are dozen more in the Middle East or South Asia targeting Shia weddings or funeral processions or mosque services. The Iranians may be extremist Shi'ites, but that does not mean that they agree with the likes of ISIS. Far from it.

[Ifreann]

That seems unfair, given the fact that many people who aren't immigrants in western countries are quite socially conservative. We shouldn't reject people based on their ideology, it goes against freedom of opinion, a value that Western nations hold highly.

Life is unfair...

I wonder why it is that people who advocate for making life more unfair always say that.

[Ethel mermania]

If we start counting iran, Saudi arabia, and other Muslim only countries, your going to find quite a bit of agreement with the three fellows in france.

That's a fine non sequitur you have there.

Your the one talking about a billion. Peaceful. I think your wrong.

[Napkiraly]

That seems unfair, given the fact that many people who aren't immigrants in western countries are quite socially conservative. We shouldn't reject people based on their ideology, it goes against freedom of opinion, a value that Western nations hold highly.

Life is unfair, citizens have different rights than non citizens virtually everywhere.

Freedom of opinion is more a universal right than something like voting.

And life being unfair isn't justification for dickishness.

[Ethel mermania]

Life is unfair...

I wonder why it is that people who advocate for making life more unfair always say that.

I don't see how protecting women and gays is unfair. If you do, more power to you.

[Ifreann]

That's a fine non sequitur you have there.

Your the one talking about a billion. Peaceful. I think your wrong.

I think you're failing to understand what I'm talking about.

[Ethel mermania]

Life is unfair, citizens have different rights than non citizens virtually everywhere.

Freedom of opinion is more a universal right than something like voting.

And life being unfair isn't justification for dickishness.

Freedom of opinion is not universal. Go express your free opinion in china, or russia.

[Ethel mermania]

Your the one talking about a billion. Peaceful. I think your wrong.

I think you're failing to understand what I'm talking about.

And I think your ignoring reality. Honestly I wish you were right. I just don't think you are.

[Napkiraly]

Freedom of opinion is more a universal right than something like voting.

And life being unfair isn't justification for dickishness.

Freedom of opinion is not universal. Go express your free opinion in china, or russia.

I'm talking about in Western countries, where citizenship should never determine whether or not someone has freedom of opinion.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Even people who commit terrible crimes have rights, otherwise there is no civilization. Perhaps you need to step away from the thread. Letting your emotions rule your posts is not going to work out well. I've been trying to be understanding and lenient here but after a certain point, that won't be possible.

I don't see how endorsing the death penalty would be trolling or anything. Or are the leaders of the US, Japan or Israel trolls as well? Perhaps you just need to chill and not think of yourself as an omnipotent God. You're just one mod.

Abusively warning me once was enough.

You were warned legitimately within the site rules. Endorsing the death penalty is fine. The way you chose to go about it was not. It is all in how you choose to phrase your posts. Those who have difficulty with that are warned so they can take the opportunity to better learn how to word their posts in the future. It is not a repression of your opinions or beliefs. It is an attempt to encourage all players to voice those opinions and beliefs in a way that does not flame, troll, or abuse other players on the site. End of.

So.

Everyone else - GET BACK ON TOPIC. Which is not 'My Opinion On All Things Muslim', 'Who Is Right or Wrong On The Religion Itself', or 'IS/ISIS/ISIL', or 'Other Islamic Governments and Their Histories'. And it certainly isn't a 'which one of you can outsnark or outlast the others' in a contest of he said/she said etc.

It's horrible, it's emotional, it's a very hot topic of debate with an understandably broad base that revolves around it, but please. We need to have some limits within the thread, and we need to treat one another with more civility while debating. Thanks.

[The Emerald Dragon]

This is playing into Al Qaeda's hands nicely, thank you.

Basically, they want France and Western Europe to go all genocide on Muslims so they can get the Muslims in these countries to say "see? I told you the West hates Islam" and begin to bring down Western Civiliation.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

This is playing into Al Qaeda's hands nicely, thank you.

Basically, they want France and Western Europe to go all genocide on Muslims so they can get the Muslims in these countries to say "see? I told you the West hates Islam" and begin to bring down Western Civiliation.

Western civilisation will be brought down the moment we start treating Muslims as second class, or differently in any negative manner. That's the moment we lose all we stand for as a culture.

[Alistan]

People keep on forgetting that Islam is considered a Western religion and has influenced the Western Civilization immensely

[The Emerald Dragon]

This is playing into Al Qaeda's hands nicely, thank you.

Basically, they want France and Western Europe to go all genocide on Muslims so they can get the Muslims in these countries to say "see? I told you the West hates Islam" and begin to bring down Western Civiliation.

Western civilisation will be brought down the moment we start treating Muslims as second class, or differently in any negative manner. That's the moment we lose all we stand for as a culture.

Now... to change my flag in honour of Ahmed Merabet.

(The Muslim officer who even managed to get the Daily Mail to stop hating on Muslims)

[The Conez Imperium]

This is playing into Al Qaeda's hands nicely, thank you.

Basically, they want France and Western Europe to go all genocide on Muslims so they can get the Muslims in these countries to say "see? I told you the West hates Islam" and begin to bring down Western Civiliation.

Does Al Qaeda support this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Apparently Hezbollah support the atrocities committed in France, could someone verify this.

[Ethel mermania]

Freedom of opinion is not universal. Go express your free opinion in china, or russia.

I'm talking about in Western countries, where citizenship should never determine whether or not someone has freedom of opinion.

That is not the definition of a universal. And yes it matters

And quite frankly if someone wants to come into my country to live with the opinion "let's kill all the niggers" I am fine with stopping them,

[Napkiraly]

This is playing into Al Qaeda's hands nicely, thank you.

Basically, they want France and Western Europe to go all genocide on Muslims so they can get the Muslims in these countries to say "see? I told you the West hates Islam" and begin to bring down Western Civiliation.

Does Al Qaeda support this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Apparently Hezbollah support the atrocities committed in France, could someone verify this.

AQ are the ones who committed it.

[Parti Ouvrier]

I support free speech and expression, the cartoonists have the right to produce crude caricatures. However, it does look like these Islamists were also inspired by the 'war on terror' carnage in the Middle East. Also, (given the mess in one of France's former colonies) it shouldn't surprise anyone that one of the suspects was a former militant for Algerian Islamist splinter group GIA* (they conducted a spate of bombings during the 90s).

I note that Obama (as does Putin, yes Putin of all people), condemns this assault on free speech, the same Obama that has overseen more persecutions of whisleblowers than any other US president. World leaders will condemn the assault on free speech of a satirical magazine, then change their tune and crackdown on fanatical Islamic preachers too.

* http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/ ... 5Z20140928

[Gauthier]

This is playing into Al Qaeda's hands nicely, thank you.

Basically, they want France and Western Europe to go all genocide on Muslims so they can get the Muslims in these countries to say "see? I told you the West hates Islam" and begin to bring down Western Civiliation.

Does Al Qaeda support this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Apparently Hezbollah support the atrocities committed in France, could someone verify this.

The clowns at IS love the idea of the West hating on and alienating Muslims certainly.

[Napkiraly]

I'm talking about in Western countries, where citizenship should never determine whether or not someone has freedom of opinion.

That is not the definition of a universal. And yes it matters

And quite frankly if someone wants to come into my country to live with the opinion "let's kill all the niggers" I am fine with stopping them,

Universal can mean everyone in the world, or everyone in a particular group. In this case Western civilisation. And no, it does not matter.

Which is completely idiotic if plenty of people born in your country hold those same views. It's ridiculous to impose that double standard to non-Western born people when plenty of Westerners are incapable of holding progressive views themselves.

[The Conez Imperium]

Does Al Qaeda support this? I haven't the foggiest idea. Apparently Hezbollah support the atrocities committed in France, could someone verify this.

AQ are the ones who committed it.

I assumed ISIS would commit such an act. To the untrained observer it is very easy to blur the lines between ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah. It is even scarier that it is so easy to confuse Islamic Extremist with Islam itself.