Why I am not Proud of my race?

[The Holy Deus]

This post is meant to foster discussion it is no way race baiting. Alright to the point, It amazes me when people say that they are proud to be black, white, and every other color within the spectrum of humanity. This concept is rather infantile and childish especially coming from adults. Living in a western meritocratic democracy I am convinced that people who think this way are utterely ignorant of its true implications. I am not proud to be black because me being black is a happenstance of birth. I am black period. If I have a child I will be black, If I kill a man I remain black, and If I discover the cure for cancer I am still black. I am not proud to be black because I did not achieve blackness I was black the day I was born and I will be black the day I die. I have a penis but you don't hear rational people proclaiming to be proud of their penis Being black or being any other race is simply who you are; There is no reason why it should be elevated into the status of an accomplishment because we simply are what we are. I will boldly proclaim that I am black and I encourage any other people of different races to proclaim what they are but there exist no rational reason to be proud of it because being black, male, female, white, melasian, hindi, malay, chinese, are all happenstances of birth not accomplishments.

[Galloism]

I'm proud to be purple.

[Scarsaw]

I agree that the race and pigment pride that people have foolish, especially since, in my experience, it seems like every ethnicity is allowed to show pride except the white without being labeled as extremists. Yet that's a whole another topic.

I disagree with your "I have a penis but you don't hear rational people proclaiming to be proud of their penis" statement. I've notice some men often proclaim how much they're proud of their penis, not because of gender or sexuality, but because for some reason...men always seem to show off that their penis is better or larger then other men's penises. And then...you have what people say in porn...but...lets not go there

[Dolbri]

It seems obvious to you and me, THD, but if you look around you will see many infantile people. And infantile people have infantile ideas.

[Hydesland]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

[The Holy Deus]

I agree that the race and pigment pride that people have foolish, especially since, in my experience, it seems like every ethnicity is allowed to show pride except the white without being labeled as extremists. Yet that's a whole another topic.

I disagree with your "I have a penis but you don't hear rational people proclaiming to be proud of their penis" statement. I've notice some men often proclaim how much they're proud of their penis, not because of gender or sexuality, but because for some reason...men always seem to show off that their penis is better or larger then other men's penises. And then...you have what people say in porn...but...lets not go there

When I say proud of their penises I meant just having a penis not so much but the size but as you said lets not go there. ^^

[Dolbri]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

That seems like countering racism with racism: "You think white people are better? Well I think black people are better!" Isn't it more advisable to just insist that all men are equal?

[Neesika]

I'm proud to be aboriginal.

What does that mean?

It means that despite hundreds of years of oppression, of concerted efforts to eradicate, assimilate, and subjugate my people, and in spite of the racism and social stigma my people still encounter on a day to day basis, I feel our culture has value, is beautiful, and is worth holding on to. It means that even though I am supposed to be ashamed of who I am, I refuse to be. It means that I don't hide what I am, I don't sugar coat it, I don't try to blend or fit it, I just am. A product of my traditions, of our history (both bad and good), as well as an individual with my own beliefs,thoughts and goals.


It's the anti-shame, not some sort of 'taking credit for shit I didn't do'.

[Hydesland]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

That seems like countering racism with racism: "You think white people are better? Well I think black people are better!" Isn't it more advisable to just insist that all men are equal?

I think it's just rhetoric, it shouldn't be taken too literally. I don't see what's so bad about, as wiki describes "self-respect, celebrating one's heritage, and being proud of one's personal worth".

[Neesika]

That seems like countering racism with racism: "You think white people are better? Well I think black people are better!" Isn't it more advisable to just insist that all men are equal?

That might be true if people were saying "It's better to be gay" or "it's better to be black". You know, the way white supremacists do it when they say "I'm proud to be white".

The problem is, people look at white supremacists and go oh well, white pride, it's racist (yes) therefore black pride is racist (no).

Are there black supremacists? (yes) Is black pride inherently supremacist? (no)

Are we following along?

[Pevisopolis]

I'm proud to be purple.

Green iz best

[Scarsaw]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

However, I find social economic status is the common cause for division between the high and lower class. Race is no longer the reason why people are oppressed, and continuing with race/ethnicity pride parades will only cause resentment from the group that were the oppressors generations ago. The majority of the current generation is not the oppressors that their forefathers were and so I do understand why the race/ethnicity pride parades against them can be seen as reverse racism and bring anger. It is also sends the message that others can be proud of what they are, except the once oppressive group, who should apparently be ashamed. That message is wrong since, as the original poster pointed out, we do not choose our heritage nor skin colour.

Now before someone mentions that currently a majority of those in poverty are of a minority skin colour, I would like to return to my first sentence about the common cause of division now a days. Being poor or rich is what decides who has what kind of opportunities. A rich black man has the same opportunities as a rich white man, who have the same opportunities as the rich Asian. Why the majority of those who are underpowered is of a minority skin colour is because of the history of the nation. It takes more than a few generations to undo the damage the forefathers did when they put people down because of their skin colour, but that does not mean the current one has to pay for it.

What needs to occur is people have to stop blaming skin colour and focus on the fact that it's really social economic status...the amount of money and political power a person has. By focusing on skin colour, we are no better then the oppressors generations ago, and are ignoring the fact that there are white people in poverty with few opportunities.

EDIT:

As an interesting note Neesika, I had a friend growing up who was sick of the separate standards set between white and black people. He was not a white supremacist at all, oddly enough almost far from it as he's best described as a liberal/communist hippy. However, when he started to promote the idea that he was proud to be white, not ashamed of his skin colour, many people instantly jumped down his throat and labeled him as a white supremacist for saying such words and it took him years to loose the label and hate towards him.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm proud to have roots that I know nothing about.

I'm also proud to have roots that I do know something about.

[The Holy Deus]

I'm proud to be aboriginal.

What does that mean?

It means that despite hundreds of years of oppression, of concerted efforts to eradicate, assimilate, and subjugate my people, and in spite of the racism and social stigma my people still encounter on a day to day basis, I feel our culture has value, is beautiful, and is worth holding on to. It means that even though I am supposed to be ashamed of who I am, I refuse to be. It means that I don't hide what I am, I don't sugar coat it, I don't try to blend or fit it, I just am. A product of my traditions, of our history (both bad and good), as well as an individual with my own beliefs,thoughts and goals.


It's the anti-shame, not some sort of 'taking credit for shit I didn't do'.

You didn't work at all to be the descendant of people who accomplished something.

[Hydesland]

I'm proud to be aboriginal.

What does that mean?

It means that despite hundreds of years of oppression, of concerted efforts to eradicate, assimilate, and subjugate my people, and in spite of the racism and social stigma my people still encounter on a day to day basis, I feel our culture has value, is beautiful, and is worth holding on to. It means that even though I am supposed to be ashamed of who I am, I refuse to be. It means that I don't hide what I am, I don't sugar coat it, I don't try to blend or fit it, I just am. A product of my traditions, of our history (both bad and good), as well as an individual with my own beliefs,thoughts and goals.


It's the anti-shame, not some sort of 'taking credit for shit I didn't do'.

You didn't work at all to be the descendant of people who accomplished something.

So perhaps it's not personal pride, but pride for your race. Do you understand?

[Dolbri]

I feel our culture has value, is beautiful, and is worth holding on to.

Good on you. I wish I could feel the same about my people's culture.

That seems like countering racism with racism: "You think white people are better? Well I think black people are better!" Isn't it more advisable to just insist that all men are equal?

That might be true if people were saying "It's better to be gay" or "it's better to be black". You know, the way white supremacists do it when they say "I'm proud to be white".

The problem is, people look at white supremacists and go oh well, white pride, it's racist (yes) therefore black pride is racist (no).

Are there black supremacists? (yes) Is black pride inherently supremacist? (no)

Are we following along?

Sure, but where do you draw the line? You gotta admit, saying you're proud of your culture comes dangerously close to saying your culture is better than other cultures. Anti-shame, yes, I get it, but it's a thin line. Much safer to say "who cares about those god-damned cultures, let's all be civilised twentyfirstcentury humans".

[Neo Art]

Race is no longer the reason why people are oppressed

.....are you fucking shitting me?

Now before someone mentions that currently a majority of those in poverty are of a minority skin colour

have you ever paused to think about WHY that might be?

A rich black man has the same opportunities as a rich white man, who have the same opportunities as the rich Asian.

Bullshit, utter bullshit.

[The Holy Deus]

I'm proud to be aboriginal.

What does that mean?

It means that despite hundreds of years of oppression, of concerted efforts to eradicate, assimilate, and subjugate my people, and in spite of the racism and social stigma my people still encounter on a day to day basis, I feel our culture has value, is beautiful, and is worth holding on to. It means that even though I am supposed to be ashamed of who I am, I refuse to be. It means that I don't hide what I am, I don't sugar coat it, I don't try to blend or fit it, I just am. A product of my traditions, of our history (both bad and good), as well as an individual with my own beliefs,thoughts and goals.


It's the anti-shame, not some sort of 'taking credit for shit I didn't do'.

You didn't work at all to be the descendant of people who accomplished something.

So perhaps it's not personal pride, but pride for your race. Do you understand?

O I understand now sorry Neesika

[Atreath]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

There is no acceptable context for racism. IE differentiating humans by pigmentation. Its foolish and reveals irrational or infantile minds.

Human is human.

[Ryadn]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

However, I find social economic status is the common cause for division between the high and lower class. Race is no longer the reason why people are oppressed, and continuing with race/ethnicity pride parades will only cause resentment from the group that were the oppressors generations ago. The majority of the current generation is not the oppressors that their forefathers were and so I do understand why the race/ethnicity pride parades against them can be seen as reverse racism and bring anger. It is also sends the message that others can be proud of what they are, except the once oppressive group, who should apparently be ashamed. That message is wrong since, as the original poster pointed out, we do not choose our heritage nor skin colour.

Now before someone mentions that currently a majority of those in poverty are of a minority skin colour, I would like to return to my first sentence about the common cause of division now a days. Being poor or rich is what decides who has what kind of opportunities. A rich black man has the same opportunities as a rich white man, who have the same opportunities as the rich Asian. Why the majority of those who are underpowered is of a minority skin colour is because of the history of the nation. It takes more than a few generations to undo the damage the forefathers did when they put people down because of their skin colour, but that does not mean the current one has to pay for it.

What needs to occur is people have to stop blaming skin colour and focus on the fact that it's really social economic status...the amount of money and political power a person has. By focusing on skin colour, we are no better then the oppressors generations ago, and are ignoring the fact that there are white people in poverty with few opportunities.

EDIT:

As an interesting note Neesika, I had a friend growing up who was sick of the separate standards set between white and black people. He was not a white supremacist at all, oddly enough almost far from it as he's best described as a liberal/communist hippy. However, when he started to promote the idea that he was proud to be white, not ashamed of his skin colour, many people instantly jumped down his throat and labeled him as a white supremacist for saying such words and it took him years to loose the label and hate towards him.

That might be true if racism was some shameful thing from the past that we only learn about in history books. However, a black man still makes less than a white man for equal work in the U.S., right now, and a black woman makes something like 65 cents for every dollar a white man is paid. Sexism and racism may not be as rampant and unchecked as in the past, but they still affect people today in very real ways.

As for "a rich black man has the same opportunities as a rich white man"... while I would contend that, even IF it were true, the history of slavery and racism in the U.S. has ensured that the vast majority of rich men will be white. When the day comes that this number is more equal, your point will be more compelling--but centuries of laws that either made black men and women into property or kept them from inheriting and accumulating wealth have not been balanced out in the 45 years since the Civil Rights Act, and they will not be balanced for a long time yet.

[The Holy Deus]

Things like Black pride and gay pride are counters to authoritarian institutions (controlled by white heterosexuals) asserting shame on these people and attempting to make them inferior, it is to combat apathy amongst the oppressed and make them band together in opposition to authoritarians by trying to put worth in those who have been made to feel worthless. Sure it would sound silly if you remove the context, but that's why it's a bad idea to remove context.

There is no acceptable context for racism. IE differentiating humans by pigmentation. Its foolish and reveals irrational or infantile minds.

Human is human.

AMEN!
It sickens me when racsims and destructive pride is taught to children.

[Scarsaw]

have you ever paused to think about WHY that might be?

Not only paused to think, but have a college certificate related to the issue and had to take several courses. The reason is not because they are being continuously oppressed, but because they were oppressed in the past, and it is very difficult to work yourself out of poverty in our system. A family, no matter the race, that lives on welfare will not have the same opportunities of a family, no matter the race, that has an annual income of +100 000. Those in a low social economic bracket are more likely to drop out of school, not attend post secondary, not introduced to after school/extra circular/community programs, and are more likely to have either a low paying job or wind up on welfare. That is fact that a study of Census Canada can prove, and the longer we continue to believe it's racism and not social economic status...the longer people who do not have the same opportunities will have to suffer, while those who are the new generation of the 'majority race' may grow some resentment.

Also, I would like to know why you disagree beyond simply saying "bull shit." I could throw insults at anything you say too, doesn't make my point any more valid or explained.

EDIT: Ryadn, this post addresses your response as well.

[Ryadn]

Sure, but where do you draw the line? You gotta admit, saying you're proud of your culture comes dangerously close to saying your culture is better than other cultures. Anti-shame, yes, I get it, but it's a thin line. Much safer to say "who cares about those god-damned cultures, let's all be civilised twentyfirstcentury humans".

Equality through cultural destruction is not much of a solution, in my mind. Besides, the U.S. government already tried that with Natives. It got a bit icky.

[Neesika]

I'm proud to be aboriginal.

What does that mean?

It means that despite hundreds of years of oppression, of concerted efforts to eradicate, assimilate, and subjugate my people, and in spite of the racism and social stigma my people still encounter on a day to day basis, I feel our culture has value, is beautiful, and is worth holding on to. It means that even though I am supposed to be ashamed of who I am, I refuse to be. It means that I don't hide what I am, I don't sugar coat it, I don't try to blend or fit it, I just am. A product of my traditions, of our history (both bad and good), as well as an individual with my own beliefs,thoughts and goals.


It's the anti-shame, not some sort of 'taking credit for shit I didn't do'.

You didn't work at all to be the descendant of people who accomplished something.

Way to completely miss my point.

[Neesika]

So perhaps it's not personal pride, but pride for your race. Do you understand?

*sigh*

No.

It's a refusal to feel ashamed of being born who I am.