Rent control and buy to let.

[Marcurix]

The rental market in the UK needs a bit of an overhaul new rules need to be introduced, enforced and applied in several areas.

Rent control is not one of these, and those suggesting it didn't get very far in their economics classes.

[WestRedMaple]

So you don't consider genocide, torture, theft, murder, etc to be unreasonable, huh? Frankly, that's pretty twisted.

Why are you not comfortable with admitting how much rent you charge?

"Sometimes bad people get into a position of power where they can enact their badness with military force OH NO"

Meanwhile the private sector has consistently proven its own self-servingness for centuries. Well I guess there are bad people in society, thanks for helping me realise this!

Why don't you admit what you charge? You brought it up.

Government has consistently proven it's own "self-servingness" for all of recorded history. Obviously that issue isn't your basis for not wanting someone to be in charge of setting prices.

So you still refuse to answer questions. Why is that?

[Calpina]

They were, in the UK, but then Thatcher happened.

If LAbour had not have stopped people from building outward.

meh we should be building underground anyway

[WestRedMaple]

If LAbour had not have stopped people from building outward.

meh we should be building underground anyway

Very energy efficient

[Imperializt Russia]

"Sometimes bad people get into a position of power where they can enact their badness with military force OH NO"

Meanwhile the private sector has consistently proven its own self-servingness for centuries. Well I guess there are bad people in society, thanks for helping me realise this!

Why don't you admit what you charge? You brought it up.

Government has consistently proven it's own "self-servingness" for all of recorded history. Obviously that issue isn't your basis for not wanting someone to be in charge of setting prices.

So you still refuse to answer questions. Why is that?

Mostly because, as Fartsniffage pointed out, you have no reason to suspect, believe or project that I do, did or will own private lettings.
Given my reasoning on the topic was made abundantly clear, mostly by me deriding the private sector as the personification of cuntishness.

I assume the one and only reason you concocted what you will now portray as an "argument" is "haha, you see! Your opinion is worthless!" when that's not how logical debate ever has, does or will work.

[WestRedMaple]

Government has consistently proven it's own "self-servingness" for all of recorded history. Obviously that issue isn't your basis for not wanting someone to be in charge of setting prices.

So you still refuse to answer questions. Why is that?

Mostly because, as Fartsniffage pointed out, you have no reason to suspect, believe or project that I do, did or will own private lettings.
Given my reasoning on the topic was made abundantly clear, mostly by me deriding the private sector as the personification of cuntishness.

I assume the one and only reason you concocted what you will now portray as an "argument" is "haha, you see! Your opinion is worthless!" when that's not how logical debate ever has, does or will work.

So you refuse to answer questions and all you can come up with of your own are assumptions.

It's pretty clear you don't have much of an argument to begin with

[Atlanticatia]

Rent control makes sense for individual tenancy agreements. For example, a tenant and landlord might agree to a maximum rise in rents of inflation + 1%, unless any improvements are made or extra costs occur.

I believe that both landlords and tenants should be treated fairly. We worry about landlords having to deal with less profits, but why not also worry about the families who might have to pay an extra 10% of their income on their rent? Ensuring people are able to budget appropriately and have appropriate, secure housing is just as important as ensuring landlords can raise rents if, for example, they do renovations, or if they encounter rises in utility bills.

The ultimate issue, though, is supply. There should be more public housing - not just for the poorest though. The state should build a mix of subsidized public housing, moderate-level housing, etc to ensure that supply can meet demand. Having a large state and community housing sector, as well as rental regulations that are fair for both tenant and landlord will be the best for everyone. I support regulation of rented accommodation.

[Imperializt Russia]

Mostly because, as Fartsniffage pointed out, you have no reason to suspect, believe or project that I do, did or will own private lettings.
Given my reasoning on the topic was made abundantly clear, mostly by me deriding the private sector as the personification of cuntishness.

I assume the one and only reason you concocted what you will now portray as an "argument" is "haha, you see! Your opinion is worthless!" when that's not how logical debate ever has, does or will work.

So you refuse to answer questions and all you can come up with of your own are assumptions.

It's pretty clear you don't have much of an argument to begin with

Interesting nitpick, because I did answer your question.

[WestRedMaple]

So you refuse to answer questions and all you can come up with of your own are assumptions.

It's pretty clear you don't have much of an argument to begin with

Interesting nitpick, because I did answer your question.

No, you answered one question, while continuing to steadfastly refuse to answer my original question.

Here, let's make it easier for you: how many rental properties do you own?

[Fartsniffage]

Interesting nitpick, because I did answer your question.

No, you answered one question, while continuing to steadfastly refuse to answer my original question.

Here, let's make it easier for you: how many rental properties do you own?

Why are you calling IR a cunt?

[WestRedMaple]

No, you answered one question, while continuing to steadfastly refuse to answer my original question.

Here, let's make it easier for you: how many rental properties do you own?

Why are you calling IR a cunt?

I have not, nor have any intention of doing so. Why do you use such slurs?

[Dinake]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/buy-to-let/11310826/Rent-controls-would-spell-disaster-for-thousands-of-buy-to-let-investors.html

The rapid growth of buy-to-let is hugely controversial, with private landlords now numbering over 1.2m. Buy-to-let investors are blamed for forcing up prices and preventing younger generations from being able to buy. There is also growing resentment toward the £9bn tax relief landlords claim on their mortgage interest - a form of tax relief not available to homeowners. Yet despite all these benefits enjoyed by private landlords, many are not generating cashflow significantly above their costs. They may be flush on paper, thanks to recently rising property values, and they may be managing month-to-month thanks to very low mortgage rates. But any significant increase in rates would push many into the red, as Telegraph Money argued first in this report last year.


If you now couple this with rent controls - as suggested by a growing number of commentators, politicians and, most recently, think tank Civitas - many in the private rented sector would find themselves losing money each month, and looking into a future where that situation would be unlikely to improve.

Civitas suggests that "once freely agreed between the tenant and the landlord, rents should not normally be allowed to rise above inflation." This cap would be coupled with tenants having the right to remain in the property as long as they wish.
Good idea or not, this could trigger cashflow nightmares for many private landlords. That is because landlords are currently borrowing at exceptionally low rates of interest.

Not only are all mortgage rates at rock bottom, but many landlords are still benefiting from "tracker rates" issued before the financial crisis. Tracker rates offered by now-defunct banks like Bradford & Bingley rise and fall in line with Bank Rate. Many landlord borrowers benefit from these still. They played a big part in helping landlords scrape through the difficult years of 2009 and 2010, and partly explain why buy-to-let repossessions are so low.

When we looked previously at landlord's ability to afford interest rate increases we took as a reasonable mortgage rate Bank Rate (currently 0.5pc) plus 3.4 percentage points. That gives a pay rate today of 3.9pc. What would happen if - and when - rates rose, but rents remained the same?

Our calculations assumed Bank Rate climbed to 3pc (unlikely in the very short term, but still a historically low level).
In London, for example, the average buy-to-let property has a value of £291,500 and attracts a monthly rent of £1,121. An interest-only mortgage on 70pc of the property value (£204,050) at a rate of 3.9pc costs £633 per month, leaving an income for the owner of £458. But a mortgage rate of 6.4pc would cost £1,088 to service per month, dragging the post-mortgage return to the landlord to just £33 per month.

Rent controls would be fatal in such a scenario. It would not be a case of the landlord "limping through": the tentants' rights to remain in the property for as long as they wished would mean the financial straitjacket would be unlikely to ease. The landlord would probably consider cutting his losses and selling up.

Clearly, the buy-to-let borrowers most at risk are those recent buyers who accepted very low rental yields in the hope of making more return via a rise in prices or capital gain.

You could argue they would have been hurt anyway by the gradual return to a "normal" interest rate environment. But anything which prevents them passing on increased mortgage costs in the form of higher rents could be the last straw.

Rent control as a way to reduce costs for tenants is quite frankly a terrible idea. The evidence from last time round (Rent Act 1977) is that rent controls coupled with high security of tenture tend not to work. They reduce supply. The way to solve the problem of skyrocketing rents is to build more - which means planning relaxation and potentially some form of restrictions on foreign ownership. Increase supply of all types of tenures.

Any thoughts NSG?

Yeah, rent controls are a dumb idea because they actually raise the average rent by constricting supply, and also tend to have massive loopholes. On the other hand, unless there's a very good reason for it(which I doubt; its probably political or a relic of a time when there was), they shouldn't be getting so many tax benefits not available to owners.

[Risottia]

Just raise the taxes on homes that aren't being used by someone as primary residence. Raise them a lot.

[Fartsniffage]

Why are you calling IR a cunt?

I have not, nor have any intention of doing so. Why do you use such slurs?

Is English your first language?

[WestRedMaple]

I have not, nor have any intention of doing so. Why do you use such slurs?

Is English your first language?

Yes, it is.....and you're avoiding the question

[Fartsniffage]

Is English your first language?

Yes, it is.....and you're avoiding the question

IR clearly said that he believes private sector of landlords are "the personification of cuntishness" and yet you continue to insinuate that he is a private landlord.

Given you say that English is your first language, you must have understood those words. So I ask again, why are you calling IR a cunt?

[Ethel mermania]

Rent control is a huge mistake, because it doesn't enable the owners of property to raise rents high enough to cover regular maintenance and the housing deteriorates over time. Most of the people who own rent controlled properties want to get rid of them by any means they can, including the commitment of arson to enable insurance fraud.

Most refurbish the apartments to be luxury apartments which are typically exempt from rent control.

Manhattan has a large number of empty luxury apartments that the landlord would rather have as empty than to have affordable housing that they can actually rent because of the risk of rent control.

I think those are called coops, those apts are privately owned. In the city apts that are not rent controlled or stabilized do not become rent controlled by the virtue of having a low rent.

[WestRedMaple]

Yes, it is.....and you're avoiding the question

IR clearly said that he believes private sector of landlords are "the personification of cuntishness" and yet you continue to insinuate that he is a private landlord.

Given you say that English is your first language, you must have understood those words. So I ask again, why are you calling IR a cunt?

I'm not insinuating any such thing. I'm just asking a question.

So far as English being a first language, is it ANY of yours? Your question has already been addressed, which you would very well know if you were willing and able to actually read my post.

You, on the other hand, have not answered the question you were asked

[Fartsniffage]

I'm not insinuating any such thing. I'm just asking a question.

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Liar.

So far as English being a first language, is it ANY of yours? Your question has already been addressed, which you would very well know if you were willing and able to actually read my post.

I don't believe it has. You've lied to try and pretend you aren't doing what you are, but that isn't really an answer. Let's try again, why are you calling IR a cunt?

You, on the other hand, have not answered the question you were asked

Which question was that?

[WestRedMaple]

I'm not insinuating any such thing. I'm just asking a question.

viewtopic.php?p=23023963#p23023963
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viewtopic.php?p=23024483#p23024483
viewtopic.php?p=23026141#p23026141

Liar.

So far as English being a first language, is it ANY of yours? Your question has already been addressed, which you would very well know if you were willing and able to actually read my post.

I don't believe it has. You've lied to try and pretend you aren't doing what you are, but that isn't really an answer. Let's try again, why are you calling IR a cunt?

You, on the other hand, have not answered the question you were asked

Which question was that?

You are being blatantly dishonest. You failing to grasp the point is not a lie on my part.

You don't believe because you aren't being honest. That's your fault, not mine.

Come on back when you have something to contribute other than lies and sexist slurs

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

No thanks. I only just got into this line of things. I want to milk all you peasants for every penny.

[Imperializt Russia]

Let's try and spell this out for you.

I said that private lets, in an illness-fuelled fit of rage, were the "personification of cuntishness". Generally the private sector, but specifically private lets.
You then asked "how many lets do you own".

By extension of my own logic, you are therefore calling me a cunt by insinuating I am the very thing I am branding "the personification of cuntishness" (I am not a private letter). It should also have been abundantly clear, from the language alone, that I am not a private letter.

From this, the only possible reason you would have asked this is for me to say "well, I don't own any private lets". To which you would have surely responded "well, your opinion is worthless". Which wouldn't have been correct, since me not owning a let doesn't invalidate my viewpoint on private lets. Nor does not being a chef invalidate your opinions on the quality of food, nor does not being a licensed driver invalidate your opinions of others' road handling skills.

[Greater-London]

Don't have rent controls just build more houses.

[Fartsniffage]

Don't have rent controls just build more houses.

Yeah, countryside is boring.

[Greater-London]

Yeah, countryside is boring.

No, just people need to have houses. The populations growing, house prices are going up, rents are going up a solution would be to build more decent affordable housing with as much of it on brown field sights as possible. Regardless the UK has lots and lots of countryside going spare.