'PEGIDA' Anti-Islam protests

[Patria Magna]

I know its quite sad but the strange thing is that the PEGIDA is popular in eastern Germany but eastern German states do not have many immigrants.
In fact only 0,1% of the people in Saxony are muslim.

Britain has 5% Muslim population the largest in Europe. Most irrational hatred of minority's the leading oppressor almost has no contact or a negligible amount of contact with the group they are oppressing. It's similar to the elitist whites view of blacks after the Rodney King riots.

One person in authority is accused I abusing their power. The justice system finds them innocent. Other people riot, attacking even groups of people uninvolved in the original dispute. The group of people that the person in authority belonged to sees that this is silly.

[United Christian America]

I support them many Muslims First generation immigrants don't want to integrate some don't even shake hands with a women or learn the language.

Fixed. And is that something to be ashamed of or to attribute fault to? It's pretty difficult to acclimate to a completely different culture and civilization regardless of where you came from. If we were to pick a random person on the streets of a major metropolitan area, and plop them in a completely different metropolitan area of a completely different country in a completely different part of the world, the vast majority of people would find themselves totally disoriented and unable to relate to their current surroundings.

You have the lucky few who are either adaptable, open-minded, or really hated their point of origin to the point where they would adapt, or the even luckier few who are ethnically related to the nation they arrived in (or at least are fluent or even idiomatic in the nation they've arrived in) who can quickly adapt, but the majority would not have a happy time.

It's their right not to shake hands with a woman, a man, or anybody else. Some people have different customs. As for learning the language, I'm gonna need a source on that, because it seems to me that learning the language of your home country would be very useful.

Sources would be mostly anecdotal, I can imagine. Language is not something you can learn in a day, or even in a year. Learning a new language is a long process wherein you gradually use this language and practice with other people until you can use it fluently. This includes literacy and writing of course. Some people can read and talk but can't write well (and that can even include people using their native language!)

As for the topic, the protests are a shame, but suppressing them would be even worse.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

In light of the recent terrorist attacks in france, here are some problems muslim integration in europe:

Asked about attitudes towards free speech, there was little support for freedom of speech if it would offend religious sensibilities. 78% of Muslims thought that the publishers of the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed should be prosecuted, 68% thought those who insulted Islam should be prosecuted and 62% of people disagree that freedom of speech should be allowed even if it insults and offends religious groups.

These are the so called 'moderates'. It's quite astonishing that some people still can't grasp that europe has a massive problem with it's muslim communities.

[MERIZoC]

In light of the recent terrorist attacks in france, here are some problems muslim integration in europe:

Asked about attitudes towards free speech, there was little support for freedom of speech if it would offend religious sensibilities. 78% of Muslims thought that the publishers of the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed should be prosecuted, 68% thought those who insulted Islam should be prosecuted and 62% of people disagree that freedom of speech should be allowed even if it insults and offends religious groups.

These are the so called 'moderates'. It's quite astonishing that some people still can't grasp that europe has a massive problem with it's muslim communities.

Link, plox.

[Blakk Metal]

In light of the recent terrorist attacks in france, here are some problems muslim integration in europe:

These are the so called 'moderates'. It's quite astonishing that some people still can't grasp that europe has a massive problem with it's muslim communities.

Link, plox.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

[Olerand]

Link, plox.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

That link is Islamophobic and stigmatizing. Are you sure they didn't mistake the respondents for Catholics or Evangelicals??

(If unable to tell, my post is beyond sarcastic; my aura of disgust today makes my posts more believable than usual apparently)

[Shilya]

I support them many Muslims First generation immigrants don't want to integrate some don't even shake hands with a women or learn the language.

Fixed. And is that something to be ashamed of or to attribute fault to? It's pretty difficult to acclimate to a completely different culture and civilization regardless of where you came from. If we were to pick a random person on the streets of a major metropolitan area, and plop them in a completely different metropolitan area of a completely different country in a completely different part of the world, the vast majority of people would find themselves totally disoriented and unable to relate to their current surroundings.

You have the lucky few who are either adaptable, open-minded, or really hated their point of origin to the point where they would adapt, or the even luckier few who are ethnically related to the nation they arrived in (or at least are fluent or even idiomatic in the nation they've arrived in) who can quickly adapt, but the majority would not have a happy time.

Now that's not a very fair comparison, is it? Comparing a person who is given no time to prepare, no ahead knowledge where they're going and no time to adapt, to someone who has all of those.

It's their right not to shake hands with a woman, a man, or anybody else. Some people have different customs. As for learning the language, I'm gonna need a source on that, because it seems to me that learning the language of your home country would be very useful.

Sources would be mostly anecdotal, I can imagine. Language is not something you can learn in a day, or even in a year. Learning a new language is a long process wherein you gradually use this language and practice with other people until you can use it fluently. This includes literacy and writing of course. Some people can read and talk but can't write well (and that can even include people using their native language!)

As for the topic, the protests are a shame, but suppressing them would be even worse.

Here's the real problem: There are cases where second- or even third-generation immigrants still struggle with the language. And that is related to integration, it largely stems back to small subsocieties forming in the cities, where you can comfortably live and work without ever having to learn a single word of the native langauge.

And yes, that's a problem, because the moment they enter school, the teachers now have to teach them german before they can start properly teaching them everything else, leading to them permanently lagging behind.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

That link is Islamophobic and stigmatizing. Are you sure they didn't mistake the respondents for Catholics or Evangelicals??

(If unable to tell, my post is beyond sarcastic; my aura of disgust today makes my posts more believable than usual apparently)

It's actually quite a funny poll and a perfect exapmle of the apologist mindset many westerners have. After all of the appalling result, they end it with:

Yes, a minority of Muslims believe bizarre things, but then a minority of non-Muslims do too!

See? Not a problem at all! We all believe in some bizzare things!

[United Christian America]

Here's the real problem: There are cases where second- or even third-generation immigrants still struggle with the language. And that is related to integration, it largely stems back to small subsocieties forming in the cities, where you can comfortably live and work without ever having to learn a single word of the native langauge.

And yes, that's a problem, because the moment they enter school, the teachers now have to teach them german before they can start properly teaching them everything else, leading to them permanently lagging behind.

Well, yes, people will establish social bubbles no matter where they are, and find it difficult to proactively communicate with those outside of their bubbles. This is human nature: we tend to relate more with people who have a similar background or have similar interests. Several English-speaking expatriates in places like China, for example, tend to congregate among each other and don't really speak the local language all that well.

But I will concede that since their German would be below par, it would be difficult to help them. This is more of a problem for recent immigrants and their elementary (by that I mean mid-elementary like 3rd grade (8 yrs old) and older) aged children, but children who are just starting out in say preschool or even first grade wouldn't be THAT far behind their peers.

We're in the 21st Century, and we're talking about a First World Nation. I suspect they'd have "German as a Second Language" programs for kids and adults by now.

[MERIZoC]

Link, plox.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

As the author notes, a parallel pole of other people would be quite useful.

[Islamic State of UKIP]

In light of the recent terrorist attacks in france, here are some problems muslim integration in europe:

Asked about attitudes towards free speech, there was little support for freedom of speech if it would offend religious sensibilities. 78% of Muslims thought that the publishers of the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed should be prosecuted, 68% thought those who insulted Islam should be prosecuted and 62% of people disagree that freedom of speech should be allowed even if it insults and offends religious groups.

These are the so called 'moderates'. It's quite astonishing that some people still can't grasp that europe has a massive problem with it's muslim communities.

So? Most Christians in America take that attitude too. It's religion in general that is the problem, not just Islam.

[Geilinor]

In light of the recent terrorist attacks in france, here are some problems muslim integration in europe:

These are the so called 'moderates'. It's quite astonishing that some people still can't grasp that europe has a massive problem with it's muslim communities.

So? Most Christians in America take that attitude too. It's religion in general that is the problem, not just Islam.

Most Christians in America support the freedom of speech unless provoking violence.

[Islamic State of UKIP]

So? Most Christians in America take that attitude too. It's religion in general that is the problem, not just Islam.

Most Christians in America support the freedom of speech unless provoking violence.

As do most Muslims in Europe. The thing is both groups argue against having their religion mocked. Quit trying to derail the topic and grow up

[Geilinor]

Most Christians in America support the freedom of speech unless provoking violence.

As do most Muslims in Europe. The thing is both groups argue against having their religion mocked. Quit trying to derail the topic and grow up

How many fucking times in two threads will you demand me to "grow up"? Show me an instance of 12 people dying in America over what a newspaper chooses to publish.

[The New Sea Territory]

I think we need a "Islam in Europe Megathread".

[The Alma Mater]

Most Christians in America support the freedom of speech unless provoking violence.

As do most Muslims in Europe. The thing is both groups argue against having their religion mocked.

"We support freedom of speech as long as you only say things we like".

[Edgy Opinions]

I think we need a "Islam in Europe Megathread".

That can't end well...

[The New Sea Territory]

I think we need a "Islam in Europe Megathread".

That can't end well...

...it's not like this will, either. We just need a thread dedicated to the whole slew of conversations about Radical Islam and Europe, including this and the shooting in France.

[Zottistan]

Are you seriously suggesting that they should be suppressed?

Imagine you are a muslim living in germany, maybe a refugee from syria who barely excaped with his life, seeing these protestors hating you for your religion.

People hate each other for a whole fuckload of stupid reasons and most people just have to deal with it. Hatred over religion is probably quite a valid form of hatred. You can't legislate people into liking you.

[Obresia]

Hand the german governmen over to PEGIDA before they get the same as in France.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I see both sides' points.

However, I don't see why can't this be changed via policy without actually kicking out immigrants.

[Southern Hampshire]

who wants to organize a pegida protest in the UK

Don't you already have resident terrorist-affiliated organizations such as the EDL?

na EDL is racist

PEGIDA isn't

[The Grey Wolf]

Pretty sure the organizer is a typical Neo-Nazi. Regardless, it is good that people want to protest.

[Laerod]

I see both sides' points.

However, I don't see why can't this be changed via policy without actually kicking out immigrants.

One would argue that you're not really capable of seeing both sides' points then.

Don't you already have resident terrorist-affiliated organizations such as the EDL?

na EDL is racist

PEGIDA isn't

Actually...

Der Berliner Ableger der islamfeindlichen Pegida-Bewegung wird nach Einschätzung des Verfassungsschutzes von Rechtsextremen unterwandert. "Das, was wir hier in Berlin haben, sind vor allen Dingen durchaus auch rechtsextremistisch gesinnte Personen, die versuchen, ein Thema zu okkupieren und Unzufriedenheit von Bürgern zu nutzen", sagte Verfassungsschutz-Chef Bernd Palenda am Dienstag im Inforadio des rbb.

The Berliner branch of the islamophobic PEGIDA-movement is being infiltrated by far-right extremists according to the Verfassungsschutz. "That which we have here in Berlin are first and foremost persons of a far-right extremist bent that are attempting to occupy a topic and to use dissatisfaction of citizens," said the head of the Verfassungsschutz Bernd Palenda on tuesday in the Inforadio of the rbb.

[Napkiraly]

The policewoman shot in Paris earlier today has died of her wounds.