Obama

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

Personally, I wish Barack Obama had the balls to form the healthcare bill himself rather than wishy-washily leave it to Congress - damn well take responsibility for it and push it through.

In fact, on a lot of this 'hey guys, let's work this out' stuff, screw it, the opposition isn't interested so give it up already.

Clinton tried that and it didn't work.

[Barringtonia]

Personally, I wish Barack Obama had the balls to form the healthcare bill himself rather than wishy-washily leave it to Congress - damn well take responsibility for it and push it through.

In fact, on a lot of this 'hey guys, let's work this out' stuff, screw it, the opposition isn't interested so give it up already.

Clinton tried that and it didn't work.

Well, I think the atmosphere back then was different, as much as 'socialism' remains a dirty word in the US, it's not as much as in the early 90's. Healthcare was doomed back then any way you tried to push it.

[Grave_n_idle]

Personally, I wish Barack Obama had the balls to form the healthcare bill himself rather than wishy-washily leave it to Congress - damn well take responsibility for it and push it through.

In fact, on a lot of this 'hey guys, let's work this out' stuff, screw it, the opposition isn't interested so give it up already.

I agree with this.

Of course, I've been ruined by seeing nationalised healthcare actually working, so rightwing propaganda is less effective on me...

[Dragontide]

He is the first to make any effort in the push for new energy sources. In a few years he will be revered as one of the best presidents in history for just this one reason.

[Wallonochia]

The one thing I learned from this thread is that most of NSG is utterly incapable of recognizing sarcasm in written form.

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

Stabilizing? 10% unemployment and growing is not stabilizing.

Actually unemployment has been down since October. But why bother with the real world when we can just trash Obama!

The real unemployment rate is close to 22%. Depressionary indeed.

Incidentally, this number is also down since October.

[Sibirsky]

and the Stimulus was supposed to create jobs.

It did create jobs.

Not the proposed millions that President Obama stated it will create.

Because most of it hasn't been spent...

and there for... the millions of jobs wern't created.

of course, my opinion of President Obama is that this is only his first year. I'll wait till the end of his second year before I pass judgement.

but so far... he's been pretty good. no real complaints.

No big international problems, no no war fronts, no Geneva scandals, no new Haliburton scandals, no new recessions, no new unemployment trends, a recovering stock market, movment towards bringing home troops on at least one front...

There's really not much to honestly bitch about.

On the other hand - a half-hearted healthare bill, an end to some of the worst humanitarian abuses of the previous decade, but no follow up, and a lot of wasted populist capital...

There's not much to honestly be excited about, either,


Generally, "mostly harmless", but yet to make any real impression.

Can you tell me why the stock market has been recovering?

Several reasons - quite prominent among them being the bump in confidence that voting the previous ramshackle mob out of office garnered.

A second, prominent, reason is the fact that the adjustment has largely occured in the economy. There's still more adjustment to be made - and hopefully that will actually happen in a controlled fashion over the next few years, rather than bubbling along and then crashing again.

Third - credit is actually moving, albeit sluggishly.

All valid. However please note, that since the March lows the stock market has increased in value by $7 trillion. Typically, in an expansion of $7 trillion, you need an addition of $700 billion. New cash came in the form of IPOs and bank offerings to the tune of $200 billion. This is also accompanied by falling volume. Furthermore, the majority of gains have come in after hours trading. In other words Futures. So, if it needs $1 to expand by $10, how does it increase by $7 trillion with only $200 billion on new cash and falling volume?

[Sibirsky]

Please. Look up the 1920-1921 Depression. The New Deal, prolonged the Great Depression.

That comparison will not hold without solid evidence - that means actual sources, not assertions. Kindly either give us some or shut the hell up.

The first few minutes are enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI

The post-war market adjusted. It wasn't by ten percent, it wasn't for three or more years - it wasn't a Depression.

The problem didn't go away - the recovery of '21 was incomplete - and we ended up in the Great Depression.

Incomplete? Then why do they call the time period that immediately followed the Roaring Twenties?

[Sibirsky]

Stabilizing? 10% unemployment and growing is not stabilizing.

Actually unemployment has been down since October. But why bother with the real world when we can just trash Obama!

The real unemployment rate is close to 22%. Depressionary indeed.

Incidentally, this number is also down since October.

It's rare for the various unemployment indicators (U-3, U-6, others) to move in different directions.

[The Black Forrest]

Please. Look up the 1920-1921 Depression. The New Deal, prolonged the Great Depression.

That comparison will not hold without solid evidence - that means actual sources, not assertions. Kindly either give us some or shut the hell up.

The first few minutes are enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI

The post-war market adjusted. It wasn't by ten percent, it wasn't for three or more years - it wasn't a Depression.

The problem didn't go away - the recovery of '21 was incomplete - and we ended up in the Great Depression.

Incomplete? Then why do they call the time period that immediately followed the Roaring Twenties?

Wasn't the Roaring twenties pretty much the free marketers dream?

[East Klent]

OBAMA ISNT MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you know? I'm pretty sure he hasn't had to show his birth certificate yet!

Uhhh he has but that wouldn't show he was muslim or not, wouldn't it?

[East Klent]

O'Bama? Never heard of him.

He's the President of the United States of America, in the actual world

I don't think he was being serious.

Ya i Know.

[Grave_n_idle]

Please. Look up the 1920-1921 Depression. The New Deal, prolonged the Great Depression.

That comparison will not hold without solid evidence - that means actual sources, not assertions. Kindly either give us some or shut the hell up.

The first few minutes are enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI

The post-war market adjusted. It wasn't by ten percent, it wasn't for three or more years - it wasn't a Depression.

The problem didn't go away - the recovery of '21 was incomplete - and we ended up in the Great Depression.

Incomplete? Then why do they call the time period that immediately followed the Roaring Twenties?

For the same reason the 80's looked so profitable?

An expanding credit bubble that had to readjust at some point - and finally did.

[Grave_n_idle]

All valid. However please note, that since the March lows the stock market has increased in value by $7 trillion. Typically...

See, there's your problem, without having to read any further.

'Typically' is a slightly shorter way of saying "not always".

[The Regency of Stars]

Meh describes it.

[Sibirsky]

All valid. However please note, that since the March lows the stock market has increased in value by $7 trillion. Typically...

See, there's your problem, without having to read any further.

'Typically' is a slightly shorter way of saying "not always".

You just dismissed the opinion of an investment professional, who has 13 out of the 30 biggest hedge funds as clients, whom all agree with him. I would say 13 out of the 30 biggest hedge fund managers, and someone providing a service for them know what they're talking about. Perhaps typically was not the right word to use.

[Rhodmhire]

I assume he'd come off to the common eye as somewhat foolish and imbecilic if he were to undergo a phase of time where he strolled the streets with a precariously positioned hat while his pants were on the ground.

[Drachmar]

I assume he'd come off to the common eye as somewhat foolish and imbecilic if he were to undergo a phase of time where he strolled the streets with a precariously positioned hat while his pants were on the ground.

Nothing like Rhodmhire to put things in perspective.

You plan on staying awhile?

[Rhodmhire]

He is the first to make any effort in the push for new energy sources. In a few years he will be revered as one of the best presidents in history for just this one reason.

He'll be forgotten before such efforts are acted upon in a way that's beneficial, and can actually be classified as something beyond "a push."

That statement would probably hold true, whether such an event occured within 1,000 years or 10 years.

[Rhodmhire]

I assume he'd come off to the common eye as somewhat foolish and imbecilic if he were to undergo a phase of time where he strolled the streets with a precariously positioned hat while his pants were on the ground.

Nothing like Rhodmhire to put things in perspective.

You plan on staying awhile?

"Awhile" is relative--does an accumulated time interval of approximately 5-6 minutes come off as awhile by your standards?

[Grave_n_idle]

All valid. However please note, that since the March lows the stock market has increased in value by $7 trillion. Typically...

See, there's your problem, without having to read any further.

'Typically' is a slightly shorter way of saying "not always".

You just dismissed the opinion of an investment professional, who has 13 out of the 30 biggest hedge funds as clients, whom all agree with him. I would say 13 out of the 30 biggest hedge fund managers, and someone providing a service for them know what they're talking about.

I have never much cared for appeals to authority.

Neither, apparently, have you - since I've seen you arguing against the majority opinion on other occassions (such as on the New Deal).

So - why are you trotting out such a transparent logical fallacy on this occassion?

[Drachmar]

I assume he'd come off to the common eye as somewhat foolish and imbecilic if he were to undergo a phase of time where he strolled the streets with a precariously positioned hat while his pants were on the ground.

Nothing like Rhodmhire to put things in perspective.

You plan on staying awhile?

"Awhile" is relative--does an accumulated time interval of approximately 5-6 minutes come off as awhile by your standards?

Not lately.

But I haven't had an espresso in a few hours.

[Dragontide]

He is the first to make any effort in the push for new energy sources. In a few years he will be revered as one of the best presidents in history for just this one reason.

He'll be forgotten before such efforts are acted upon in a way that's beneficial, and can actually be classified as something beyond "a push."

That statement would probably hold true, whether such an event occured within 1,000 years or 10 years.

Acting quickly is something within our means. Many of the products have already been invented. Mass production can make it happen. (and create jobs in the process.

What I was mostly referring to though was events like hurricane Ike that took out only 10 of the 3800 offshore oil rigs yet doubled gas prices in many states within 48 hours. And Ike was only a Cat-2 storm when it hit land. What happens when 200 rigs get damaged by a major hurricane? That can happen in any given year. Obama's climate plan is the complete opposite of both of the Bush's plan. People tend to remember things that have a massive impact on a global scale.

[Neu Leonstein]

The 1920-1921 Depression, which was deeper in it's first year than the Great Depression resulted in the government doing nothing. And lasted 18 months. The Great Depression resulted in the New Deal, and lasted 12 years.

Different causes and effects, dude. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[Chrobalta]

The 1920-1921 Depression, which was deeper in it's first year than the Great Depression resulted in the government doing nothing. And lasted 18 months. The Great Depression resulted in the New Deal, and lasted 12 years.

Different causes and effects, dude. You're comparing apples and oranges.

A lot of it had to do with the end of world war 1 and the changes it brought on to the US.

The apples to oranges analogy is entirely correct, the Great Depression had a lot to do with the poor oversight of the economy during the previous decade allowing a volatile mix to fester and explode in 1929.