Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Soselo]

Not where I am.

Why not?

It's not helping me throw around cunt.

[Dumb Ideologies]

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

How many times do I have to mention phenotypes and DNA?

How many times do we need to mention that a large body of peer-reviewed psychiatric and sociological literature confirms that transgender identities are A Legitimate Thing That Exists? You don't seem to have noticed that we're talking about gender here, not sex. You're referring to completely irrelevant fields of study for the topic at hand. Please review the correct literature before commenting in future, as at the moment you are not adequately informed to contribute anything of value.

[Putin the Bear King]

Not where I am.

Why not?

Not tradition.

[Neo Rome Republic]

Tragic, very tragic. This is what happens when one puts their dogma above their loved ones, becoming blind to the feelings and even pleas of their loved ones. Seeing as them as extensions of ones legacy and beliefs, rather than human beings. In effect, dehumanizing them and becoming blind to their pleas, until it is too late.

[Fartsniffage]

Why not?

Not tradition.

So your adherence to science has limits?

[The balkens]

Not tradition.

So your adherence to science has limits?

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE SUN DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND THE EARTH!?"

[WestRedMaple]

That was a typo. But now that you brought it up, both he and she are correct in this instance as well.

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

They are undeniably both correct. He and she refer to both gender and sex. By gender, Leelah was a she, by sex a he.

In order to be misgendering, you'd have to know that they were using it specifically in reference to gender and not sex

[Lost heros]

Genes have nothing to do with gender. Of course, you're not going to believe the World Health Organization because let me guess; they have been forced by ebul liberals to lie on world renown medical journals.

You could at least be honest, that you don't give two shits about science or genetics, that you only care about oppressing people who you don't understand or that different from you.

I actually do care about science, but like stated, whatever floats your boat. Want to call be transphobic? I'm not, but let all of your anger out. I'm not that, so it won't affect me.

You do, do ya?
So where on this web page does it say anything relating gender to genes?

No, you are a transophobe. We've all seen it on this thread. We've seen you deny a poor trans girl's identity. We've seen you trivialize the idea of a trans gender identity. There's no denying it. You're a transophobe.

[WestRedMaple]

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Science has decided that tomatos are a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad?

The list of fruits I do not include in fruit salad includes the vast majority of fruits in existence

[Nazi Flower Power]

For fuck's sake. How is it not fucking clear enough that rampagnt transophobia like this is just plain awful.
Her name is Leelah. Her proper pronoun is she. It's crap like this that drove her to her suicide.

IS THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT?
For everyone who doesn't fit in with your arbitrary ideas of masculinity to walk in front of a speeding truck and kill themselves.

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Names and pronouns are a linguistic issue, not a genetic one.

[Lost heros]

Why not?

Not tradition.

Tradition does not by itself make something good.

[Soselo]

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Names and pronouns are a linguistic issue, not a genetic one.

Not only a linguistic issue.

[WestRedMaple]

Not tradition.

So your adherence to science has limits?

How does that follow from not using tomato in one's fruit salad?

[Fartsniffage]

Science has decided that tomatos are a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad?

The list of fruits I do not include in fruit salad includes the vast majority of fruits in existence

Good for you.

[Vissegaard]

One is the legal name. The other is a name he claimed to have.

For fuck's sake. How is it not fucking clear enough that rampant transphobia like this is just plain awful.
Her name is Leelah. Her proper pronoun is she. It's crap like this that drove her to her suicide.

IS THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT?
For everyone who doesn't fit in with your arbitrary ideas of masculinity to walk in front of a speeding truck and kill themselves.

As if the pronoun really mattered.
What is important is that a human committed suicide. Despite it's sad, it was her choice. What we can do, is to not do it ourselves. And that's all. Plus, being nice to the people who happen to be different wouldn't hurt so much.

[New Oyashima]

h8 incoming m8

Oh, how original. One sec:

There we are.
-----------------

I'm deeply saddened by the loss of human life here. She was a beautiful young lady and she deserved better, may she rest in peace.

[The Lotophagi]

As if the pronoun really mattered.

And what makes you so important that you get to decide what really matters for other people? Talk about egotism.

[Fartsniffage]

So your adherence to science has limits?

How does that follow from not using tomato in one's fruit salad?

Try to think about it for a second. In fact, just try to think about anything for a second, it'll be a whole new experience for you.

[Lost heros]

For fuck's sake. How is it not fucking clear enough that rampant transphobia like this is just plain awful.
Her name is Leelah. Her proper pronoun is she. It's crap like this that drove her to her suicide.

IS THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT?
For everyone who doesn't fit in with your arbitrary ideas of masculinity to walk in front of a speeding truck and kill themselves.

As if the pronoun really mattered.
What is important is that a human committed suicide. Despite it's sad, it was her choice. What we can do, is to not do it ourselves. And that's all. Plus, being nice to the people who happen to be different wouldn't hurt so much.

The pronoun does matter. It is a representation of her identity. By deliberately deciding that the pronoun used is a male instead of female, Putin is doing exactly what the parents did, doing exactly what drove Leelah to suicide; he is denying her true identity because of his arbitrary sense of masculinity.

[Karaginsky]

I know, that's why I've used the name "Leelah" and the pronoun "she".

Then people aren't born boys.

There are some people who have a visibly testicular genitalia at birth.

Some of them are gendered correctly and assume such designated gender identity, others aren't and such an identity would only be an imposed construct.

What? Um...I believe those with male sexual organs at birth are born male.

As for this death of this poor teenager, it was an unfortunate event, but I'd not bash the parent's too much. No one knows how much a parent loves their child until they themselves are parents, and so I have a feeling that out of everyone, they are the ones who are currently facing the most grief, between the publicity, the likely guilt, and the loss of their son/daughter (depending on your PoV)

[Floating mountain]

As if the pronoun really mattered.

As someone who is trans herself I can tell you that the constant misgendering and use of the wrong name and pronouns is a major issue for trans people and has almost driven me to suicide before. So yeah they do matter and are part of the reason why she killed herself.

[Lost heros]

Then people aren't born boys.

There are some people who have a visibly testicular genitalia at birth.

Some of them are gendered correctly and assume such designated gender identity, others aren't and such an identity would only be an imposed construct.

What? Um...I believe those with male sexual organs are male

You are fundamentally incorrect. Gender and sex are unrelated.

[Putin the Bear King]

I actually do care about science, but like stated, whatever floats your boat. Want to call be transphobic? I'm not, but let all of your anger out. I'm not that, so it won't affect me.

You do, do ya?
So where on this web page does it say anything relating gender to genes?

No, you are a transophobe. We've all seen it on this thread. We've seen you deny a poor trans girl's identity. We've seen you trivialize the idea of a trans gender identity. There's no denying it. You're a transophobe.

It's just transphobe, and I'm not. Like I said, whatever floats your boat.

[Karaginsky]

What? Um...I believe those with male sexual organs are male

You are fundamentally incorrect. Gender and sex are unrelated.

Meant to say that those born with male organs are born male, altho it's the same principle more or less

[Lost heros]

You do, do ya?
So where on this web page does it say anything relating gender to genes?

No, you are a transophobe. We've all seen it on this thread. We've seen you deny a poor trans girl's identity. We've seen you trivialize the idea of a trans gender identity. There's no denying it. You're a transophobe.

It's just transphobe, and I'm not. Like I said, whatever floats your boat.

Would you call yourself accepting of trans people? Would you let a person determine their own gender, even if it is contrary to their gender assigned at birth because of their sexual organs? Do you respect and recognize that certain people identify with a gender differently than you expect them to?