Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Liriena]

What a waste.

Pleasedon'tbeatransphobeleasedon'tbeatransphobepleasedon'tbeatransphobepleasedon'tbeatransphobe...

[Putin the Bear King]

That was a typo. But now that you brought it up, both he and she are correct in this instance as well.

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

How many times do I have to mention phenotypes and DNA?

[Shilya]

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

How many times do I have to mention phenotypes and DNA?

Let me introduce to you a pretty strange idea:

How about, get this, it's pretty crazy, respect the will of a dead girl?

[Liriena]

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

How many times do I have to mention phenotypes and DNA?

You don't have to mention them at all. We're talking about gender identity, not sex. If you are going to try to minimize trans issues, you should try to stick to relevant disciplines.

[Lost heros]

No. One is the name she identified with. The other is not.

One is the legal name. The other is a name he claimed to have.

For fuck's sake. How is it not fucking clear enough that rampagnt transophobia like this is just plain awful.
Her name is Leelah. Her proper pronoun is she. It's crap like this that drove her to her suicide.

IS THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT?
For everyone who doesn't fit in with your arbitrary ideas of masculinity to walk in front of a speeding truck and kill themselves.

[The balkens]

Horrifying, absolutely horrifying.

[Fortschritte]

No. One is the name she identified with. The other is not.

One is the legal name. The other is a name he claimed to have.

The name Leela was her name, because that's the name she wanted for herself.

[Soselo]

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

How many times do I have to mention phenotypes and DNA?

Eight, you mongrel.

[Putin the Bear King]

http://lazerprincess.tumblr.com/post/106447705738/suicide-note

Goodbye Leelah.

The grammar is quite good, not what I would expect from someone who's just about to commit suicide. Hmph.

Also, in this day and age, the amount of oppression detailed would not have happened at such an intensity. Alas, the overdramatization of youth in a society where rewards are abound do not surprise me.

h8 incoming m8

[Nazi Flower Power]

I'd like to point out that this line of defining what is a mental illness or not is semantic, not physiological. Schizophrenia and these hallucinations are biological in nature after all, so these people also too believe this for biological reason. And there certainly are people who feel this about themselves just as strongly as there are people who feel their body isn't the right sex.

Just a thought experiment. Would the correct response be to treat these people by refering to them as if they were dogs and matching their bodies to their proprioception through surgery were the technology available? If not, why should this be any different from transexuality? Nomatter where you put the dividing line it is going to be arbitrary on some level.

Perhaps that is true, but a big difference is not only the degree. There is no known treatment for gender identity disorder other than sex reassignment surgery to alleviate the gender dysphoria. Logically, if an XY male has a female brain structure, there can be no way to alleviate the feeling of GID until the person's body matches the sex the person's mind has he or she is. In the case of clinical lycanthopism, while brain structure and genetics plays a role, cultural factors have been found to play a much more significant role, with cultures containing werewolf mythologies showing a higher prevalence of such a mental illness. More importantly, "conversion" therapy for GID has been widely discredited by the APA and other organizations. In contrast, mood stabilisers and psychotropic drugs are regularly applied to sufferers of clinical lycanthopism, with no complaint from psychological associations.

So I still think they are very different, in that GID sufferers need to have their gender identity reinforced, thus we ought to use the pronoun they identify with. For lycanthopism, there is a viable alternative to calling them werewolves and reinforcing that self-perception.

EDIT: I never, ever believed in my whole life I would ever end up having a discussion like this. Ever.

What if someone doesn't like their meds and would prefer to just be a werewolf? Some psychotics don't like their meds.

[Fartsniffage]

Horrifying, absolutely horrifying.

This isn't horrifying in the trans community. This is just a Tuesday....

[Geilinor]

Also, in this day and age, the amount of oppression detailed would not have happened at such an intensity.

It happens.

[The Lotophagi]

No, it wasn't a typo. Your fellow poster has been calling Leelah "he" for a while now.

And no, not both of them are correct. Leelah Alcorn did not identify as male. If you care for accuracy, you'll refer to her as "she". If you want to mention the fact that she was assigned male at birth every time you refer to her as "she", be my guest, but don't misgender someone who was driven to suicide in no small part because her own family went out of its way to misgender her.

How many times do I have to mention phenotypes and DNA?

Every single human being has the genetic capability to be either gender. The Y chromosome is essentially a switch that turns on genes on the X chromosome that contain the 'blueprints' for male sexual development. Hence all those simplistic articles about males 'going extinct' - sometime in the next few thousand years, the Y chromosome is likely going to merge into the X chromosome.

Every male that has ever lived has also began as being physiologically female - the development of female sexual organs was ongoing for several weeks in the womb and in fact provide the foundation for the development of male organs. The penis, after all, is just an eversion of the vaginal canal.

Human sex and gender is not cut-and-dry. The sooner you realize that the sooner you'll stop making a fool out of yourself like this.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Pre-op people can still get very upset about being referred to with a pronoun they don't want, and it's just a word, so why not humor them and call them what they want to be called? It's such a small thing to do, but it really means a lot to some people. Why do something that you know is going to upset them?

I think we all know why they're doing that.

I get that they're transphobic, but why be so transphobic? It doesn't accomplish anything.

[The Lotophagi]

I think we all know why they're doing that.

I get that they're transphobic, but why be so transphobic? It doesn't accomplish anything.

It gets people mad on the internet and putting down someone else makes them feel better about themselves. That's all the 'reasoning' they need.

[Alcase]

We must fear the destiny of the French language.

Le, la, l', and now lu?

or Ce, which is how I will be referring to transgenders from now because I don't know what way is right anymore than is wrong.

[Putin the Bear King]

One is the legal name. The other is a name he claimed to have.

For fuck's sake. How is it not fucking clear enough that rampagnt transophobia like this is just plain awful.
Her name is Leelah. Her proper pronoun is she. It's crap like this that drove her to her suicide.

IS THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT?
For everyone who doesn't fit in with your arbitrary ideas of masculinity to walk in front of a speeding truck and kill themselves.

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

I get that they're transphobic, but why be so transphobic? It doesn't accomplish anything.

It gets people mad on the internet and putting down someone else makes them feel better about themselves. That's all the 'reasoning' they need.

Nope, but whatever floats your boat if you want to accuse of such things.

[MERIZoC]

Horrifying, absolutely horrifying.

This isn't horrifying in the trans community. This is just a Tuesday....

Quite sadly.

[Fartsniffage]

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Science has decided that tomatos are a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad?

[Putin the Bear King]

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Science has decided that tomatos are a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad?

Not where I am.

[The Lotophagi]

Nope, but whatever floats your boat if you want to accuse of such things.

Which is, of course, you ignored my post telling you specifically why calling on genetics to discriminate against trans people is ludicrous. Riiiight. Totally something someone who was in it for the logical argumentation would do.

[Lost heros]

For fuck's sake. How is it not fucking clear enough that rampagnt transophobia like this is just plain awful.
Her name is Leelah. Her proper pronoun is she. It's crap like this that drove her to her suicide.

IS THAT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT?
For everyone who doesn't fit in with your arbitrary ideas of masculinity to walk in front of a speeding truck and kill themselves.

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Genes have nothing to do with gender. Of course, you're not going to believe the World Health Organization because let me guess; they have been forced by ebul liberals to lie on world renown medical journals.

You could at least be honest, that you don't give two shits about science or genetics, that you only care about oppressing people who you don't understand or that different from you.

[Soselo]

Goodbye Leelah.

The grammar is quite good, not what I would expect from someone who's just about to commit suicide. Hmph.

Also, in this day and age, the amount of oppression detailed would not have happened at such an intensity. Alas, the overdramatization of youth in a society where rewards are abound do not surprise me.

h8 incoming m8

I don't hate you. However, our society is not immune to cuntiness and I'd like to see less contributions to it.

[Fartsniffage]

Science has decided that tomatos are a fruit. Do you put them in fruit salad?

Not where I am.

Why not?

[Putin the Bear King]

Science and genetics are not arbitrary to many people.

Genes have nothing to do with gender. Of course, you're not going to believe the World Health Organization because let me guess; they have been forced by ebul liberals to lie on world renown medical journals.

You could at least be honest, that you don't give two shits about science or genetics, that you only care about oppressing people who you don't understand or that different from you.

I actually do care about science, but like stated, whatever floats your boat. Want to call be transphobic? I'm not, but let all of your anger out. I'm not that, so it won't affect me.

The grammar is quite good, not what I would expect from someone who's just about to commit suicide. Hmph.

Also, in this day and age, the amount of oppression detailed would not have happened at such an intensity. Alas, the overdramatization of youth in a society where rewards are abound do not surprise me.

h8 incoming m8

I don't hate you. However, our society is not immune to cuntiness and I'd like to see less contributions to it.

It just strikes me as odd, but okay.