Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Liriena]

No. Your name and gender identity are not biological traits.

She had the right to choose her name, and she chose Leelah. Respect her decision.

She identified as a woman, and by her own admission dreamed for most of her life to go through gender confirmation to be one both in mind and body. Respect her identity.

Wait, you do support that a name is not physical, but you still charge on with the belief that if you claim a certain gender-wise belief, it must be true?

Yes.


I don't see anything inconsistent in that, but if you want to practise some mental contortionism to make it seem that way, be my guest.

[Putin the Bear King]

Phenotypically and genetically male, also. Claiming that one is a machination of human thought without any scientific backing based on physiology and genetics does not really have any concrete support. if it's a psychological condition, it nullifies your disposition of being the opposite gender, as said condition is neurologically impairing.

It's almost as if you memorized any scientific concept that you could bastardize to support your transphobia, while carefully avoiding any actual research on gender identity and the recommended course of treatment for gender dysphoria.

I do not hate or fear transexuals or transgender people. I am not against LGBT, I am neutral on the matter. The dissatisfaction from gender arises from social and environmental influence and persuasion, as with every learned concept and warped idea that there is in human society. To deny this is to deny the basic core features of humanity.

[New DeCapito]

That's actually a good point, let's get to the real issue here.
(Damn, I was gonna quote someone)

[Dokisu]

Because genetics has little to do with names and pronouns. If you want to talk science, why not talk about the scientific research that shows proof that there are differences in transgender people's brains and all that other lovely psychological stuff? She was psychologically female, and pronouns seem to matter more on psychology than chromosomes and whether or not you have a vagina or penis.

Eh, pronouns were honestly the least of the issues here.

A stable support structure, child services taking her away from the parents who clearly didn't have her interests at heart, people surrounding her needed to step up.

A misplaced pronoun can hurt, but this was a paper cut compared to the true gaping wound.

I understand. This debate just started when someone was misgendering her, so it's focused on pronouns.

[Putin the Bear King]

Wait, you do support that a name is not physical, but you still charge on with the belief that if you claim a certain gender-wise belief, it must be true?

Yes.


I don't see anything inconsistent in that, but if you want to practise some mental contortionism to make it seem that way, be my guest.

You are admitting your own fallacy.

[Putin the Bear King]

That's actually a good point, let's get to the real issue here.

Sure.

A death is a sad thing, whether it is cis or not. I believe that politics and human social warping from any ideology, contrived or created, should not be involved. It is a sad day, like any other day that one dies.

I have but one question, however. getting hit on a highway is not exactly the least...painful.

[New DeCapito]

That's actually a good point, let's get to the real issue here.

Sure.

A death is a sad thing, whether it is cis or not. I believe that politics and human social warping from any ideology, contrived or created, should not be involved. It is a sad day, like any other day that one dies.

I have but one question, however. getting hit on a highway is not exactly the least...painful.

Interesting thought... does anyone know what part of her body hit the truck first?

[Liriena]

Yes.


I don't see anything inconsistent in that, but if you want to practise some mental contortionism to make it seem that way, be my guest.

You are admitting your own fallacy.

My fallacy being...?

[The Khanazhk Alliance]

This leaves me feeling as though we have failed yet again... Failed to accept when one needed acceptance, failed to be there when one needed company, failed to even say the right words at the right time, before it was too late... COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE, THAT IS WHAT IT IS!

If I knew of any parents who created the circumstances in which lead to their own child being driven to taking their own lives and learned nothing from it whatsoever, I would personally ensure that they regret it...

[Putin the Bear King]

You are admitting your own fallacy.

My fallacy being...?

That you admit to supporting a created term/label by humans that, in turn, deems it to be false in any court of scientific law in which it may claim to be inciting scientific false identity, not tied to the organics of science, but you do not admit that calling yourself something other than your own phenotype and genetic label is false. This can be taken as mistaken argument, not only by the accused, but by the accuser.

A fllacy.

[Liriena]

It's almost as if you memorized any scientific concept that you could bastardize to support your transphobia, while carefully avoiding any actual research on gender identity and the recommended course of treatment for gender dysphoria.

I do not hate or fear transexuals or transgender people. I am not against LGBT, I am neutral on the matter. The dissatisfaction from gender arises from social and environmental influence and persuasion, as with every learned concept and warped idea that there is in human society. To deny this is to deny the basic core features of humanity.

Ergo, you misgender transgender people?

Nice.

Really nice.

[Liriena]

My fallacy being...?

That you admit to supporting a created term/label by humans that, in turn, deems it to be false in any court of scientific law in which it may claim to be inciting scientific false identity, not tied to the organics of science, but you do not admit that calling yourself something other than your own phenotype and genetic label is false.

Is it just me, or does this accusation make no sense?

[Dokisu]

That you admit to supporting a created term/label by humans that, in turn, deems it to be false in any court of scientific law in which it may claim to be inciting scientific false identity, not tied to the organics of science, but you do not admit that calling yourself something other than your own phenotype and genetic label is false.

Is it just me, or does this make no sense?

I don't get it either, but I tend to be the person who doesn't know what's going on.

[Liriena]

Is it just me, or does this make no sense?

I don't get it either, but I tend to be the person who doesn't know what's going on.

Wait... I'm starting to grasp it... and as I feared, he's putting words into my mouth... and conflating sex with gender.

[Digital Planets]

Can't tell if indirect threat, or trying to make up a scenario that isn't in the context of the thread.

My words carry no threat.
It is the next logical step in that train of thought.

Alright, I'll answer it, then.

Basically, in comes in two words: The fuck? I mean, really, what kind of question is that? Of course I'm not gonna let them.

What drove them to kill themselves is not my problem. I'm more focused on the message sent across from their death, 'don't be sad, it's for the better' being the main thing.

Wow.


Yeah, you're definitely going to my ignore list.

I'm sorry my opinion bothers you.

Well, not really, since you can't seem to handle it.

[Dokisu]

I don't get it either, but I tend to be the person who doesn't know what's going on.

Wait... I'm starting to grasp it... and as I feared, he's putting words into my mouth... and conflating sex with gender.

Probably, but that's still not very sensical (is that a word?).

[Liriena]

Wait... I'm starting to grasp it... and as I feared, he's putting words into my mouth... and conflating sex with gender.

Probably, but that's still not very sensical (is that a word?).

*shrug*

[Morlodania]

My words carry no threat.
It is the next logical step in that train of thought.

Alright, I'll answer it, then.

Basically, in comes in two words: The fuck? I mean, really, what kind of question is that? Of course I'm not gonna let them.

Then how is it a good reason for someone to kill themself?
If it is not a good reason for someone to kill you, how is it a good reason for you to kill you?

[Liriena]

Wow.


Yeah, you're definitely going to my ignore list.

I'm sorry my opinion bothers you.

Well, not really, since you can't seem to handle it.

Here's the thing: Your opinion bothers me because I for one don't care for shallow and uncaring opinions about very serious problems, and your opinion was shallow and uncaring. There's people living in circumstances similar to Leelah's, suffering and dying right now, as we speak. For decades they've been ignored, when not mocked and vilified. Leelah knew it, and felt that, even if she couldn't live through her circumstances, she could at least tell her story, so that the world would know about the widespread problems faced by women like her. She explicitly said that she wanted her death to help other transgender women.

You simply don't care about that. You validate her sentiment that committing suicide was for the best, but you entirely disregard a fundamental part of what she intended to happen when she told her story to the world and took her own life.

That is why I "can't seem to handle" your opinion. That's why I'm ignoring you.

Because your opinion is the sort of opinion that I don't simply disagree with. It's the sort of opinion that makes me feel sick, the sort of opinion that triggers me. It is one thing to hear some insufferably pedantic transphobe go out of his way to bastardize several sciences to excuse their prejudice, but it is another to encounter somebody who doesn't even take the issue seriously.

Goodbye, and have a happy new year.

[Fortschritte]

This. Just because she thought it was for the better doesn't mean it actually is.

If someone who just offed themselves said 'it's for the better', then I'll take that and continue on with my day.

Do you have no sense of empathy?

[The Lotophagi]

If someone who just offed themselves said 'it's for the better', then I'll take that and continue on with my day.

Do you have no sense of empathy?

Nah. Someone just dreadfully misinformed him that feigning edginess and pretending to be an asshole was the same thing as having anything worthwhile to say. See his signature as an example. I wouldn't pay him any attention, if I were you.

[Digital Planets]

If someone who just offed themselves said 'it's for the better', then I'll take that and continue on with my day.

Do you have no sense of empathy?

Every now and then.

[Putin the Bear King]

I don't get it either, but I tend to be the person who doesn't know what's going on.

Wait... I'm starting to grasp it... and as I feared, he's putting words into my mouth... and conflating sex with gender.

Gender is the representation of sex within a political, civil, social, or national society. Failure to understand this can be assisted by there being 2 genders and 2 sexes, with the latter being the former in a social aspect.

Do give your definition.

[Marelius]

Fix society yourself, instead of dying because you couldn't handle "the struggle".

[Fortschritte]

Fix society yourself, instead of dying because you couldn't handle "the struggle".

It's not that easy. When you're denied your rights and your basic dignity, and when people judge you constantly, it hurts. It hurt the girl when she was looked down upon and essentially abandoned for her identity. She was driven off the edge. To say that she had to "fix society herself" is inconsiderate, rude, offensive, and selfish.