Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Morlodania]

I didn't intentionally misgender her, she was born a man and felt she was a girl. And I'm not transphobic just because I don't believe her suicide will be for the good, or change anything at all. She wanted to be a martyr, and people are glorifying her as one and suicide should NOT be rewarded.

I corrected your post so that it had the right pronouns. Also, misgender and transphobic are real words, don't put quotation marks on them.

Did I ever tell you you're my hero?

If someone who just offed themselves said 'it's for the better', then I'll take that and continue on with my day.

And you are not going to give the circumstances that drove her to suicide any thought? Even though depression and suicide within the transgender community are very serious problems?

Furthermore, if someone decided offing you was 'for the better' would you take that and let them end you, Digital?

[Putin the Bear King]

Don't. You're not allowed to edit a person's post through quotes, New DeCapito. You're intentionally trying to annoy me.

You can edit someone's post if you make it blatant that you did so. They edited it to respect Leelah, not annoy you.

i think that it is still Joshua, given the fact of the phenotypic and genetic traits all pointing towards a male disposition, but...if you choose, you can really call anyone anything.

[New DeCapito]

Don't. You're not allowed to edit a person's post through quotes, New DeCapito. You're intentionally trying to annoy me.

You can edit someone's post if you make it clear that you did so. They edited it to respect Leelah, not annoy you.

Well, yes. And that.

[Uncle Sam]

Don't. You're not allowed to edit a person's post through quotes, New DeCapito. You're intentionally trying to annoy me.

Correct. I'm subtly annoying you to the point where you look like a massive idiot.

Don't bait me, New DeCapito. Ignore me if you find me idiotic.

[Liriena]

I corrected your post so that it had the right pronouns.

Don't. You're not allowed to edit a person's post through quotes, New DeCapito.

Actually, if I recall correctly, he is allowed to do that, so long as he says that he's changed things in your post.

You're intentionally trying to annoy me.

No. He's correcting your misgendering of a transgender woman.

[New DeCapito]

Correct. I'm subtly annoying you to the point where you look like a massive idiot.

Don't bait me, New DeCapito. Ignore me if you find me idiotic.

And so I shall.

[Morlodania]

You can edit someone's post if you make it blatant that you did so. They edited it to respect Leelah, not annoy you.

i think that it is still Joshua, given the fact of the phenotypic and genetic traits all pointing towards a male disposition, but...if you choose, you can really call anyone anything.

A name's a name.
Whether the name is Joshua or Leelah doesn't make a difference, that's a preference.
Using the wrong pronouns because you don't believe in transgenderism or just to cause the person grief is beyond wrong and cruel however.

[Dokisu]

You can edit someone's post if you make it blatant that you did so. They edited it to respect Leelah, not annoy you.

i think that it is still Joshua, given the fact of the phenotypic and genetic traits all pointing towards a male disposition, but...if you choose, you can really call anyone anything.

I don't care about her genetics. She was psychologically female and identified as such. Calling her Leelah and using she pronouns is the respectful thing to do.

[Putin the Bear King]

Don't. You're not allowed to edit a person's post through quotes, New DeCapito.

Actually, if I recall correctly, he is allowed to do that, so long as he says that he's changed things in your post.

You're intentionally trying to annoy me.

No. He's correcting your misgendering of a transgender woman.

Phenotypically and genetically male, also. Claiming that one is a machination of human thought without any scientific backing based on physiology and genetics does not really have any concrete support. if it's a psychological condition, it nullifies your disposition of being the opposite gender, as said condition is neurologically impairing.

[Uncle Sam]

i think that it is still Joshua, given the fact of the phenotypic and genetic traits all pointing towards a male disposition, but...if you choose, you can really call anyone anything.

A name's a name.
Whether the name is Joshua or Leelah doesn't make a difference, that's a preference.
Using the wrong pronouns because you don't believe in transgenderism or just to cause the person grief is beyond wrong and cruel however.

Its not cruel to use male pronouns when speaking to a person that was born male. If that was cruel, calling Barack Obama "Mister President" or, "Sir" should be outlawed to make sure he's not offended by anyone.

[Digital Planets]

If someone who just offed themselves said 'it's for the better', then I'll take that and continue on with my day.

And you are not going to give the circumstances that drove her to suicide any thought? Even though depression and suicide within the transgender community are very serious problems?

What drove them to kill themselves is not my problem. I'm more focused on the message sent across from their death, 'don't be sad, it's for the better' being the main thing.

[Liriena]

i think that it is still Joshua

No. Your name and gender identity are not biological traits.

She had the right to choose her name, and she chose Leelah. Respect her decision.

She identified as a woman, and by her own admission dreamed for much of her life to go through gender confirmation to be one both in mind and body. Respect her identity.

[Putin the Bear King]

i think that it is still Joshua, given the fact of the phenotypic and genetic traits all pointing towards a male disposition, but...if you choose, you can really call anyone anything.

I don't care about her genetics. She was psychologically female and identified as such. Calling her Leelah and using she pronouns is the respectful thing to do.

Caring not about genetics only nullifies the disposition of science! Now why would anyone deny science in a technological world without statistical information?

Respectful? In the eyes of the subjective beholder, maybe. But in the realm of concrete factual information supplied by statistical data known as science? Laughable, at best.

[Digital Planets]

Furthermore, if someone decided offing you was 'for the better' would you take that and let them end you, Digital?

Can't tell if indirect threat, or trying to make up a scenario that isn't in the context of the thread.

[New DeCapito]

Look, if she wants to be known as a woman than we should feel morally obliged to acknowledge that she is. Using the wrong pronoun is disrespectful.

[Putin the Bear King]

i think that it is still Joshua

No. Your name and gender identity are not biological traits.

She had the right to choose her name, and she chose Leelah. Respect her decision.

She identified as a woman, and by her own admission dreamed for most of her life to go through gender confirmation to be one both in mind and body. Respect her identity.

Wait, you do support that a name is not physical, but you still charge on with the belief that if you claim a certain gender-wise belief, it must be true?

[Uncle Sam]

i think that it is still Joshua

No. Your name and gender identity are not biological traits.

She had the right to choose her name, and she chose Leelah. Respect her decision.

She identified as a woman, and by her own admission dreamed for most of her life to go through gender confirmation to be one both in mind and body. Respect her identity.

Technically, since he was still a minor and a ward under his parents, he did not have the right to his choice concerning his body and name and all the other things. If he were to turn 18, then he'd have the right of his own body.

[Putin the Bear King]

Look, if she wants to be known as a woman than we should feel morally obliged to acknowledge that she is. Using the wrong pronoun is disrespectful.

Morals are not objective.

[Morlodania]

A name's a name.
Whether the name is Joshua or Leelah doesn't make a difference, that's a preference.
Using the wrong pronouns because you don't believe in transgenderism or just to cause the person grief is beyond wrong and cruel however.

Its not cruel to use male pronouns when speaking to a person that was born male. If that was cruel, calling Barack Obama "Mister President" or, "Sir" should be outlawed to make sure he's not offended by anyone.

Is the president transgender? Has he ever come out as such?
No.
Did Leelah?
Yes.
It is cruel to assault someone's identity, what someone KNOWS they are. You refuse to respect her for who she knew she was, just because she was, as part of the grand machine of the universe, born a different gender PHYSICALLY than she was MENTALLY.

[Liriena]

Actually, if I recall correctly, he is allowed to do that, so long as he says that he's changed things in your post.


No. He's correcting your misgendering of a transgender woman.

Phenotypically and genetically male, also. Claiming that one is a machination of human thought without any scientific backing based on physiology and genetics does not really have any concrete support. if it's a psychological condition, it nullifies your disposition of being the opposite gender, as said condition is neurologically impairing.

It's almost as if you memorized any scientific concept that you could bastardize to support your transphobia, while carefully avoiding any actual research on gender identity and the recommended course of treatment for gender dysphoria.

[Liriena]

And you are not going to give the circumstances that drove her to suicide any thought? Even though depression and suicide within the transgender community are very serious problems?

What drove them to kill themselves is not my problem. I'm more focused on the message sent across from their death, 'don't be sad, it's for the better' being the main thing.

Wow.


Yeah, you're definitely going to my ignore list.

[Morlodania]

Furthermore, if someone decided offing you was 'for the better' would you take that and let them end you, Digital?

Can't tell if indirect threat, or trying to make up a scenario that isn't in the context of the thread.

My words carry no threat.
It is the next logical step in that train of thought.

[Liriena]

Furthermore, if someone decided offing you was 'for the better' would you take that and let them end you, Digital?

Can't tell if indirect threat, or trying to make up a scenario that isn't in the context of the thread.

Neither.

[Dokisu]

I don't care about her genetics. She was psychologically female and identified as such. Calling her Leelah and using she pronouns is the respectful thing to do.

Caring not about genetics only nullifies the disposition of science! Now why would anyone deny science in a technological world without statistical information?

Respectful? In the eyes of the subjective beholder, maybe. But in the realm of concrete factual information supplied by statistical data known as science? Laughable, at best.

Because genetics has little to do with names and pronouns. If you want to talk science, why not talk about the scientific research that shows proof that there are differences in transgender people's brains and all that other lovely psychological stuff? She was psychologically female, and pronouns seem to matter more on psychology than chromosomes and whether or not you have a vagina or penis.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Caring not about genetics only nullifies the disposition of science! Now why would anyone deny science in a technological world without statistical information?

Respectful? In the eyes of the subjective beholder, maybe. But in the realm of concrete factual information supplied by statistical data known as science? Laughable, at best.

Because genetics has little to do with names and pronouns. If you want to talk science, why not talk about the scientific research that shows proof that there are differences in transgender people's brains and all that other lovely psychological stuff? She was psychologically female, and pronouns seem to matter more on psychology than chromosomes and whether or not you have a vagina or penis.

Eh, pronouns were honestly the least of the issues here.

A stable support structure, child services taking her away from the parents who clearly didn't have her interests at heart, people surrounding her needed to step up.

A misplaced pronoun can hurt, but this was a paper cut compared to the true gaping wound.