Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Linux and the X]

Not everywhere considers it a crime to commit suicide.

I've always found that law strange. I mean, attempted suicide is not likely to be prosecuted. Anything post suicide would be largely irrelevant to the person, would it not?

Aiding others to commit suicide is of course an entirely different thing. Or going as far as to foster so called depraved heart murders.

In modern times, the law serves as a legal justification for police intervention against suicide attempts. Historically, suicide was punishable by property forfeiture and dishonourable burial. (Strictly, felo de se — felony [killing] of oneself — was punishable, whereas the term 'suicide' only applied to a person who was mentally incompetent, and was not punishable.)

[The land of the Mushroom Kingdom]

Suicide used to be a criminal offence over in the UK around 40 years ago. It sounded pretty much like the UK didn't tolerate failure. They decriminalised it in.. I can't exactly remember what year but I guess it was around 25 years before I was born.

Nobody should be driven to the point of suicide.

[Free Tristania]

"Born male" "born Joshua" This actually furthers the sentiment of legitimacy to her parents and people who share their vision

She wasn't born anything. People imposed their notions on her.


In Ohio? Ha.

Being born male, female, or intersex isn't really anything that people impose on others. Those are just things that nature imposes on us.

Biology, it exists whether we like it or not.

And Joshua is just a name....and if it is a name given at birth, then stating "born Joshua" is simply a statement of fact. I know many people with names other than what they were born with. My wife plans to add a middle name in the future.

I agree. However: the last line struck me: is that even legally possible ? If I want to change my last name (which I plan on doing - as I want to get rid of my father's last name) I need to go through legal hell and pay a lot of money - unless, of course, I get married. Then I can take my girlfriend's (then: wife's) last name.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... y/QPbYj38G

Petition whitehouse to ban all LGBTQ conversion therapy.
thought i'd dump it.
70,000 needed.

[Free Tristania]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/enact-leelahs-law-ban-all-lgbtq-conversion-therapy/QPbYj38G

Petition whitehouse to ban all LGBTQ conversion therapy.
thought i'd dump it.
70,000 needed.

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/enact-leelahs-law-ban-all-lgbtq-conversion-therapy/QPbYj38G

Petition whitehouse to ban all LGBTQ conversion therapy.
thought i'd dump it.
70,000 needed.

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

Is it scientific, or religious?
You can't have it both ways.
In addition, torturing people because your religion says so isn't protected.

[Salandriagado]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/enact-leelahs-law-ban-all-lgbtq-conversion-therapy/QPbYj38G

Petition whitehouse to ban all LGBTQ conversion therapy.
thought i'd dump it.
70,000 needed.

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

Except that it isn't voluntary. That's precisely the problem. If you want to read some stuff that varies from depressing to horrifying, try googling "WWASPS".

[Edgy Opinions]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/enact-leelahs-law-ban-all-lgbtq-conversion-therapy/QPbYj38G

Petition whitehouse to ban all LGBTQ conversion therapy.
thought i'd dump it.
70,000 needed.

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

Except these are children and adolescents and the courts have affirmed such bans.

Honestly, I'd also advocate it for adults nationwide, as is the case in Brazil. You just have to press the psychologists and psychiatrists to prosecute professionals who offer such practices as unethical, and those who are not allowed to carry out the psy science professions as quacks.

[Free Tristania]

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

Except that it isn't voluntary. That's precisely the problem. If you want to read some stuff that varies from depressing to horrifying, try googling "WWASPS".

How can it not be voluntary ? They don't go running around on the street "detaining homosexuals", now do they ? And I may see the need to remind you that if children are involved then those children are still under the legal responsibility of their parents and if their parents consent it is legally voluntary.

[Free Tristania]

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

Except these are children and adolescents and the courts have affirmed such bans.

Until you're 18 you are under the legal responsibility of your parents and if they consent - they consent. That is their right as a parent.

[Free Tristania]

Admission and partaking in these "therapies" is voluntary and banning it would be unconstitutional. You may have heard of something known as the Establishment Clause.

Is it scientific, or religious?
You can't have it both ways.
In addition, torturing people because your religion says so isn't protected.

Those groups are mainly religious and thus the Establishment Clause applies.

[Salandriagado]

Except that it isn't voluntary. That's precisely the problem. If you want to read some stuff that varies from depressing to horrifying, try googling "WWASPS".

How can it not be voluntary ? They don't go running around on the street "detaining homosexuals", now do they ?

No. They generally prefer kidnapping from their own homes.

And I may see the need to remind you that if children are involved then those children are still under the legal responsibility of their parents and if their parents consent it is legally voluntary.

Bullshit. Your parents can't give consent to you being tortured, regardless of what your age is.

[Edgy Opinions]

Except these are children and adolescents and the courts have affirmed such bans.

Until you're 18 you are under the legal responsibility of your parents and if they consent - they consent. That is their right as a parent.

If this allows torture and abuse, then I'm all for abolishing parenthood for good.

[Free Tristania]

No. They generally prefer kidnapping from their own homes.

Sounds like a bullshit story to me.

Bullshit. Your parents can't give consent to you being tortured, regardless of what your age is.

Is that so ? Can you show me the procedure which uses the scavengers' daughter, the rack, waterboarding and the thumbscrews ? And how long did the executioner make to make people confess to any sins they have committed ?

Until you're 18 you are under the legal responsibility of your parents and if they consent - they consent. That is their right as a parent.

If this allows torture and abuse, then I'm all for abolishing parenthood for good.

And replace it with what ? State care. I have been there. Redefine torture, thank you. Because defined it for me and for most of those that were in state care.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not necessarily opposed to C.T research provided it's done by actual therapists and not bigots.
I'd quite like to see just how fluid sexuality can be with with willing volunteers.
But what that doesn't involve is guilt tripping them and psychological abuse.
If we indeed discovered a way by which people can mould their sexualities to their conscious preference, it would be empowering for society.
I expect we'd see a rise in bisexuality and asexuality.

This is partially out of a belief that "straight" and "Gay" people are really just kind of... fooling themselves.
I think they're inundated with heterosexism and such, and deny their bisexual tendencies.
To be sure, someone can tend very heavily one way or another, but i don't buy that they aren't at least a little bi.
In this context, an attempt at C.T therapy would look like a shrink sitting down with the patient and carefully picking apart just why they are so adverse to fucking men/women.
If it turns out it's because of societal pressure and guilt and all that shit, then basically you're just backtracking the oldschool CT therapy they underwent and reversing it.
If it turns out it's because they are just straight/gay and honestly dont care then oh well, no cure necessary, off you pop.
But like I said, I would expect those to be a minority, if existent at all.

Key thing to notice though. This isn't actually converting them. It's getting them to acknowledge and accept their sexuality.

[Edgy Opinions]

Sexual orientation is strongly controlled by gender first and the reptilian part of the brain in second, you don't get to alter either without a much more advanced brain science.

And yes, even if gender is a construct, it's a central and very powerful one.

[Salandriagado]

Is that so ? Can you show me the procedure which uses the scavengers' daughter, the rack, waterboarding and the thumbscrews ? And how long did the executioner make to make people confess to any sins they have committed ?

Ugh, I fucking hate having to read this list. It's so fucking depressing:

• Unsanitary living conditions;
• Denial of adequate food;
• Denial of proper medical care and treatment;
• Denial of a minimally sufficient education;
• Exposure to cold temperatures for long periods of time;
• Forced physical exercise beyond his physical capacity;
• Placement in isolation for long periods of time, and at times, locked up in basements and put into uncomfortable positions;
• He was kicked, beaten, thrown and slammed to the ground, restrained, and humiliated;
• He was chained and locked in dog cages and, at times, tied by the writs and ankles;
• He was forced to clean and scrub toilets and floors with his toothbrush and then use the toothbrush afterwards;
• He was forced to carry heavy bags of sand around his neck throughout the day over many days;
• He was forced to wash dishes by using his hands and sand to scrub pots;
• He was forced to eat his own vomit;
• He endured sexual abuse
• He endured emotional abuse when Defendants subjected him to near-total parental and societal isolation;
• In an effort to control his mind, he was prevented from having regular contact with his parents;
• Personal visits, correspondence, and telephone calls were either forbidden or discouraged; and
• He was forced to work without compensation. Chase repeatedly witnessed other children being kicked, beaten, thrown to the ground, and humiliated by teachers, supervisors, and/or staff. Because he was subjected to near-total isolation from the outside world, Chase was totally unequipped to enter outside society, which has made earning a living, forming and maintaining relationships, and adapting to society difficult at best. He will need extended therapy.
• Breached their duty to act in Chase’s best interest;
• Conspired and fraudulently concealed the extent and nature of the physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse occurring at its boarding schools, extending through the present day;
• Have suppressed and minimized public knowledge of the rampant physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse of minor children in their boarding schools by teachers, supervisors, and staff;
• Had a duty to respond and to aggressively address the repeated notices of abuse committed on children so they would not continue;
• Failed to provide proper training to its teachers, supervisors, and staff;
• Failed to notify state and governmental authorities of known and suspected abuse when it was the law to do so;
• Failed to provide reasonable supervision of its teachers, supervisors, and staff;
• Failed to provide adequate staffing to provide a safe environment;
• Failed to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, and education in its boarding schools, even though it represents to parents and others it was doing so;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents they did not provide adequate staffing to prevent, detect, and minimize the effects of incidents of abuse;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents they did not provide adequate staffing to prevent, detect, and minimize the effects of incidents of abuse;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents that their son was being used as child labor and was not compensated for doing so;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents that the schools were below child safety standards, and that education of their child would be minimal to non-existence;
• Conducted themselves in a malicious, wanton, and reckless disregard of Plaintiff Chase Wood’s health, safety, and welfare;
• Falsely imprisoned Chase Wood
• Violated the RICO Act by bilking parents and children out of their money, depriving children of their educational opportunities, committing mail fraud, misrepresenting facts through phone conversations and letters, sending fraudulent literature, misleading the public and government regulators, to name a few. In sum, plaintiff Chase Wood has suffered, and will continue to suffer, extreme emotional trauma, pain and suffering, and chronic post-traumatic stress disorder. He has suffered from diminished earning capacity and lost earnings. Chase experienced both physical and psychological pain and suffering and mental anguish and continues to do so. He suffers from a profound sense of guilt, helplessness, loss of self-esteem, and suffers from post-traumatic stress syndrome as a result of his experiences at WWASPS programs. Plaintiffs believe physical, emotional, and sexual abuse to minor children currently enrolled or residing at Defendants’ boarding schools and treatment facilities is ongoing and continues to this day. Plaintiffs seek the Court to issue an injunction that would prohibit Defendants from engaging in any further physical, emotional, or sexual abuse of minor children currently enrolled in or residing at their programs.

[Free Tristania]

I'm not necessarily opposed to C.T research provided it's done by actual therapists and not bigots.
I'd quite like to see just how fluid sexuality can be with with willing volunteers.
But what that doesn't involve is guilt tripping them and psychological abuse.
If we indeed discovered a way by which people can mould their sexualities to their conscious preference, it would be empowering for society.
I expect we'd see a rise in bisexuality and asexuality.

This is partially out of a belief that "straight" and "Gay" people are really just kind of... fooling themselves.
I think they're inundated with heterosexism and such, and deny their bisexual tendencies.
To be sure, someone can tend very heavily one way or another, but i don't buy that they aren't at least a little bi.
In this context, an attempt at C.T therapy would look like a shrink sitting down with the patient and carefully picking apart just why they are so adverse to fucking men/women.
If it turns out it's because of societal pressure and guilt and all that shit, then basically you're just backtracking the oldschool CT therapy they underwent and reversing it.
If it turns out it's because they are just straight/gay and honestly dont care then oh well, no cure necessary, off you pop.
But like I said, I would expect those to be a minority, if existent at all.

That seems to be a more reasonable approach to me. I, for one, don't believe at all that "most people have homosexual tendencies" as many lunatic liberals claim. (and I use those words deliberately). In total no more than 5 percent of the population have some homosexual or bisexual tendencies.

[Free Tristania]

Is that so ? Can you show me the procedure which uses the scavengers' daughter, the rack, waterboarding and the thumbscrews ? And how long did the executioner make to make people confess to any sins they have committed ?

Ugh, I fucking hate having to read this list. It's so fucking depressing:

• Unsanitary living conditions;
• Denial of adequate food;
• Denial of proper medical care and treatment;
• Denial of a minimally sufficient education;
• Exposure to cold temperatures for long periods of time;
• Forced physical exercise beyond his physical capacity;
• Placement in isolation for long periods of time, and at times, locked up in basements and put into uncomfortable positions;
• He was kicked, beaten, thrown and slammed to the ground, restrained, and humiliated;
• He was chained and locked in dog cages and, at times, tied by the writs and ankles;
• He was forced to clean and scrub toilets and floors with his toothbrush and then use the toothbrush afterwards;
• He was forced to carry heavy bags of sand around his neck throughout the day over many days;
• He was forced to wash dishes by using his hands and sand to scrub pots;
• He was forced to eat his own vomit;
• He endured sexual abuse
• He endured emotional abuse when Defendants subjected him to near-total parental and societal isolation;
• In an effort to control his mind, he was prevented from having regular contact with his parents;
• Personal visits, correspondence, and telephone calls were either forbidden or discouraged; and
• He was forced to work without compensation. Chase repeatedly witnessed other children being kicked, beaten, thrown to the ground, and humiliated by teachers, supervisors, and/or staff. Because he was subjected to near-total isolation from the outside world, Chase was totally unequipped to enter outside society, which has made earning a living, forming and maintaining relationships, and adapting to society difficult at best. He will need extended therapy.
• Breached their duty to act in Chase’s best interest;
• Conspired and fraudulently concealed the extent and nature of the physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse occurring at its boarding schools, extending through the present day;
• Have suppressed and minimized public knowledge of the rampant physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse of minor children in their boarding schools by teachers, supervisors, and staff;
• Had a duty to respond and to aggressively address the repeated notices of abuse committed on children so they would not continue;
• Failed to provide proper training to its teachers, supervisors, and staff;
• Failed to notify state and governmental authorities of known and suspected abuse when it was the law to do so;
• Failed to provide reasonable supervision of its teachers, supervisors, and staff;
• Failed to provide adequate staffing to provide a safe environment;
• Failed to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, and education in its boarding schools, even though it represents to parents and others it was doing so;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents they did not provide adequate staffing to prevent, detect, and minimize the effects of incidents of abuse;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents they did not provide adequate staffing to prevent, detect, and minimize the effects of incidents of abuse;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents that their son was being used as child labor and was not compensated for doing so;
• Failed to tell Chase’s parents that the schools were below child safety standards, and that education of their child would be minimal to non-existence;
• Conducted themselves in a malicious, wanton, and reckless disregard of Plaintiff Chase Wood’s health, safety, and welfare;
• Falsely imprisoned Chase Wood
• Violated the RICO Act by bilking parents and children out of their money, depriving children of their educational opportunities, committing mail fraud, misrepresenting facts through phone conversations and letters, sending fraudulent literature, misleading the public and government regulators, to name a few. In sum, plaintiff Chase Wood has suffered, and will continue to suffer, extreme emotional trauma, pain and suffering, and chronic post-traumatic stress disorder. He has suffered from diminished earning capacity and lost earnings. Chase experienced both physical and psychological pain and suffering and mental anguish and continues to do so. He suffers from a profound sense of guilt, helplessness, loss of self-esteem, and suffers from post-traumatic stress syndrome as a result of his experiences at WWASPS programs. Plaintiffs believe physical, emotional, and sexual abuse to minor children currently enrolled or residing at Defendants’ boarding schools and treatment facilities is ongoing and continues to this day. Plaintiffs seek the Court to issue an injunction that would prohibit Defendants from engaging in any further physical, emotional, or sexual abuse of minor children currently enrolled in or residing at their programs.

Source. Unbiased source, please.

[Edgy Opinions]

That seems to be a more reasonable approach to me. I, for one, don't believe at all that "most people have homosexual tendencies" as many lunatic liberals claim. (and I use those words deliberately). In total no more than 5 percent of the population have some homosexual or bisexual tendencies.

Well, that's lunatic conservatism.

10-13% have it lifelong and 17-22% have it through some part of their lifetimes is what most modern research suggests.

[Free Tristania]

And yes, even if gender is a construct, it's a central and very powerful one.

Well gender is a construct anyway: a biological one.

[Edgy Opinions]

And yes, even if gender is a construct, it's a central and very powerful one.

Well gender is a construct anyway: a biological one.

I thought we were having a serious discussion.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not necessarily opposed to C.T research provided it's done by actual therapists and not bigots.
I'd quite like to see just how fluid sexuality can be with with willing volunteers.
But what that doesn't involve is guilt tripping them and psychological abuse.
If we indeed discovered a way by which people can mould their sexualities to their conscious preference, it would be empowering for society.
I expect we'd see a rise in bisexuality and asexuality.

This is partially out of a belief that "straight" and "Gay" people are really just kind of... fooling themselves.
I think they're inundated with heterosexism and such, and deny their bisexual tendencies.
To be sure, someone can tend very heavily one way or another, but i don't buy that they aren't at least a little bi.
In this context, an attempt at C.T therapy would look like a shrink sitting down with the patient and carefully picking apart just why they are so adverse to fucking men/women.
If it turns out it's because of societal pressure and guilt and all that shit, then basically you're just backtracking the oldschool CT therapy they underwent and reversing it.
If it turns out it's because they are just straight/gay and honestly dont care then oh well, no cure necessary, off you pop.
But like I said, I would expect those to be a minority, if existent at all.

That seems to be a more reasonable approach to me. I, for one, don't believe at all that "most people have homosexual tendencies" as many lunatic liberals claim. (and I use those words deliberately). In total no more than 5 percent of the population have some homosexual or bisexual tendencies.

It's significantly more than 5%.

[Ostroeuropa]

That seems to be a more reasonable approach to me. I, for one, don't believe at all that "most people have homosexual tendencies" as many lunatic liberals claim. (and I use those words deliberately). In total no more than 5 percent of the population have some homosexual or bisexual tendencies.

Well, that's lunatic conservatism.

10-13% have it lifelong and 17-22% have it through some part of their lifetimes is what most modern research suggests.

That's ignoring the bisexual spectrum.
Many people who identify as straight or gay actually harbor minor bisexual tendencies, but merely harbor a preference.

[Free Tristania]

That seems to be a more reasonable approach to me. I, for one, don't believe at all that "most people have homosexual tendencies" as many lunatic liberals claim. (and I use those words deliberately). In total no more than 5 percent of the population have some homosexual or bisexual tendencies.

Well, that's lunatic conservatism.

10-13% have it lifelong and 17-22% have it through some part of their lifetimes is what most modern research suggests.

How odd that I have only met two homosexuals in my entire life then and I have met, over the course of my life, a wide range of people.

According to the Williams Institute only 3.8 % of American adults (and it won't be any different here) classify themselves as homosexual. Not 10-13 % And the 17-22 % sounds like complete tosh to me.