Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Grenartia]

I have respect for the dead. If I called him a "she", that would be the lie.

How does one reconcile "respect" for the dead with applying the same level of ignorant, inconsiderate misgendering to the dead that prompted her to commit suicide in the first place?

My guess? Blatant denial of facts, logic, and reality.

[Teague]

So it is likely for formerly suicidal people to lose all empathy towards suicidal people?

No.
It's likely that "formerly suicidal people" and "suicidal people" can't be categorically lumped together in a way that presumes that they all think, act, and experience internal conflict the same way.
Why, why, why is that so hard for you fucks to get?

So it is unlikely for formerly suicidal people to lose all empathy towards suicidal people?
You're upset that I used a generalized statement instead of adding the word likely to my posts.

[Lakimina]

Yes, you are.

You've already proven to us that you don't give a shit about basic human dignity or decency, and have little respect for the memory of the dead. To say you're not being malicious, you either have to be lying, or in denial. So which is it?

I have respect for the dead. If I called him a "she", that would be the lie.

Putting ignorance on a grave doesn't make your situation better dearie.

[Geneserath]

You're upset that I used a generalized statement instead of adding the word likely to my posts.

I mean, you're wrong.
But whatever helps you get your quasiintellectual rocks off.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Depression is a moral failing?

Indeed.

As the old saying goes...

The jerk store called, they're running out of you.

[Grenartia]

1. Genitalia = sex.

2. Identity = gender.

3. Sex =/= gender.

4. Sex is utterly irrelevant to purely social interactions. That is the realm of gender.

People keep saying that (4), but I have a sneaking suspicion that it may not be the case, or at least not as much as you like to think it is.

And your "sneaking suspicion" is utterly unfounded. Or else we'd have gentialia checks before using the pronouns "he" or "she", or before asking somebody out on a date, or before allowing somebody to use a public restroom.

[Maineiacs]

So it is likely for formerly suicidal people to lose all empathy towards suicidal people?

No.
It's likely that "formerly suicidal people" and "suicidal people" can't be categorically lumped together in a way that presumes that they all think, act, and experience internal conflict the same way (e.g. the way you do/did).
Why, why, why is that so hard for you fucks to get?

It's not that they don't get it; it's that they won't. Empathy is for the weak, after all.

[Teague]

You're upset that I used a generalized statement instead of adding the word likely to my posts.

I mean, you're wrong.
But whatever helps you get your quasiintellectual rocks off.

Yup. And even if someone that was formerly suicidal lost the ability to empathize with those that were, it'd still be unjustified based on the fact that nobody should have the ability criticize someone else's dealings with suicide or depression as "cowardice" considering they all suffer from a unique experience (which is actually what I argued a while ago).

[Grenartia]

Probably mentioned already, but the note is now taken down.

I do fear the lionization of such an individual with this act, the whole rest in power crap, will lead to copycat attempts and thus I find it to have an exceptionally cynical utilization by those who make their headlines of it in a glorifying light. There is now a free ride to fame and a potent weapon in judicial and political changes, going in the absolute opposite way of how any reform should be presented, and I expect it to be exploited, each and every time, to it's full political value by either utterly ignorant or extraordinarily cynical people. Reading the note bit by bit and taking the time to think over ever each sentence individually, there are multiple issues at presentation here, including 'Being a man in the wrong sex or becoming a woman that no man would love'. Making this as much of a self-made trap as it could ever be. Less than a year of waiting stood unacceptable, a horrible attitude towards the parents and a definite hate going one way, but likely not the other from the looks of it. Utter rebellion. Getting friends that, surprise surprise, were not good friends from where he searched. On top of that making another individual a killer when going out of the world.

Sympathies and condolences for the family now under siege by the tolerance gestapo, as for Alcorn, I expect the grand irony at the end of this will be being laid to rest in a suit.

It was a completely reasonable opinion until the absolutely unnecessary he.

Also, sympathies for the family? lol I wish them every possible misery in the world and a kick in the nether areas.

I'm still giggling at the utterly blatant Godwin. Its such bullshit! Its not even worth addressing!

[Grenartia]

I honestly fucking doubt it, or else he wouldn't be spewing the bullshit he's spewing.

Unless he has, and just took a different perspective on that personal experience than you did.

The idea that different people think different things is fucking terrifying to the hivemind.

And, as it turns out, my hunch was correct. Gee, its almost as if my experience in this area has given me a perspective that allows me to accurately guess these things.

[Dyakovo]

Yes, you are.

You've already proven to us that you don't give a shit about basic human dignity or decency, and have little respect for the memory of the dead. To say you're not being malicious, you either have to be lying, or in denial. So which is it?

I have respect for the dead. If I called him a "she", that would be the lie.

Apparently you only have respect for the dead if they're cis.

[Grenartia]

No. Its not right, but its not wrong. Its something that shouldn't be done, but those who do/contemplate it don't have some sort of moral failings.

1. Uhh...they do. And that's fine, as people aren't perfect, and everyone needs someone to lean on from time to time.

2. But please don't try and sugarcoat the fact the depression, while certainly understandable at times, is not a failing, and suicide an even greater one.

1. Prove it.

2. I'm not sugarcoating anything. I'm actually de-shitcoating things.

[Grenartia]

Yeah, I am. Me dealing with transphobes is basically like a cat toying with a mouse before she kills it.

You're not exactly ending their lives and killing them.
Heh. Had to.

Still. Close enough.

[Herskerstad]

It was a completely reasonable opinion until the absolutely unnecessary he.

Also, sympathies for the family? lol I wish them every possible misery in the world and a kick in the nether areas.

I'm still giggling at the utterly blatant Godwin. Its such bullshit! Its not even worth addressing!

Does Godwin apply to hyperboles?

[Karlom-Teravanyia]

I feel fortunate to live in a town where we don't have these issues. Because the opinions I've seen expressed on the issue are very deep-seeded. I've yet to formalize an opinion on most of the topics discussed. I am, however, curious as to how big of an issue this is on a local level in you guys' communities.

[Grenartia]

I'm still giggling at the utterly blatant Godwin. Its such bullshit! Its not even worth addressing!

Does Godwin apply to hyperboles?

When your hyperbole is subject to Poe's Law, yes.

[Grenartia]

I feel fortunate to live in a town where we don't have these issues. Because the opinions I've seen expressed on the issue are very deep-seeded. I've yet to formalize an opinion on most of the topics discussed. I am, however, curious as to how big of an issue this is on a local level in you guys' communities.

These issues are in EVERY town in America. No location is immune to the cancerous tumor of transphobia.

[Karlom-Teravanyia]

I feel fortunate to live in a town where we don't have these issues. Because the opinions I've seen expressed on the issue are very deep-seeded. I've yet to formalize an opinion on most of the topics discussed. I am, however, curious as to how big of an issue this is on a local level in you guys' communities.

These issues are in EVERY town in America. No location is immune to the cancerous tumor of transphobia.

I don't know a single outspoken transgendered (or transphobic) person in my town of about 8,000. And I know a lot of people. It's really not a pressing issue here. I'd just like to know what it's like in places that have rallies and protests and whatnot about this sort of thing. I don't really hear anything about it unless its on the national news or the internet.

[Grenartia]

These issues are in EVERY town in America. No location is immune to the cancerous tumor of transphobia.

I don't know a single outspoken transgendered (or transphobic) person in my town of about 8,000. And I know a lot of people. It's really not a pressing issue here. I'd just like to know what it's like in places that have rallies and protests and whatnot about this sort of thing. I don't really hear anything about it unless its on the national news or the internet.

Transphobes only really come out (at least blatantly so) when the topic of trans people comes up. And that topic rarely comes up unless there's an out trans person in the area. And most trans people are too concerned for our safety to come out in a small town. If you know a lot of people, then you probably do know at least one trans person, but they're probably in the closet.

Just because you don't hear/see the transphobia, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

EDIT: As for what its like in large cities, there's often transphobia there, too. Hell, the only reason they're better is because there's often people like us there as well as allies.

[Page]

People want to believe transphobia is only blatant insults. That is not the case. Refusing to use someone's preferred pronouns is transphobic. Saying "they can do what they want but they'll never really be a man/woman" is transphobic.

Accepting trans people requires no effort. It only requires consistently embracing the rational idea that each person is sovereign over their own body.

[Karlom-Teravanyia]

I don't know a single outspoken transgendered (or transphobic) person in my town of about 8,000. And I know a lot of people. It's really not a pressing issue here. I'd just like to know what it's like in places that have rallies and protests and whatnot about this sort of thing. I don't really hear anything about it unless its on the national news or the internet.

Transphobes only really come out (at least blatantly so) when the topic of trans people comes up. And that topic rarely comes up unless there's an out trans person in the area. And most trans people are too concerned for our safety to come out in a small town. If you know a lot of people, then you probably do know at least one trans person, but they're probably in the closet.

Just because you don't hear/see the transphobia, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

EDIT: As for what its like in large cities, there's often transphobia there, too. Hell, the only reason they're better is because there's often people like us there as well as allies.

Never said there weren't any transgendered people. Just said its not a huge inflammatory issue. And I don't take kindly to the characterization of small town Americans as medieval barbarians that will lynch all the socially unorthodox people in the area. It's simply not true. Some people are ignorant and mean, but everyone has dealt with that at some point or another.

[Herskerstad]

Does Godwin apply to hyperboles?

When your hyperbole is subject to Poe's Law, yes.

Not to be rude, but in this case I think it is more subject to you being unable to distinguish A from B in this case.

The tolerance gestapo which, incidentally got you to laugh, was the intended humor which dispels poe's law. Short of someone mistaking me for someone which considers the LGBT organizations to reincarnate nazi concentration camps, which would be an amazing conclusion to arrive to in the first place, it can't really touch on Poe's law.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

each person is sovereign over their own body.

Nazara

[Grenartia]

Transphobes only really come out (at least blatantly so) when the topic of trans people comes up. And that topic rarely comes up unless there's an out trans person in the area. And most trans people are too concerned for our safety to come out in a small town. If you know a lot of people, then you probably do know at least one trans person, but they're probably in the closet.

Just because you don't hear/see the transphobia, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

EDIT: As for what its like in large cities, there's often transphobia there, too. Hell, the only reason they're better is because there's often people like us there as well as allies.

Never said there weren't any transgendered people. Just said its not a huge inflammatory issue. And I don't take kindly to the characterization of small town Americans as medieval barbarians that will lynch all the socially unorthodox people in the area. It's simply not true. Some people are ignorant and mean, but everyone has dealt with that at some point or another.

Ignoring the fact I never said the underlined, I've lived in small town America most of my life. My actual characterization is not that inaccurate from what I've seen firsthand. Also, believe it or not, but yes, transgender people get lynched all the time, in big cities, small towns, and the suburbs.

When your hyperbole is subject to Poe's Law, yes.

1. Not to be rude, but in this case I think it is more subject to you being unable to distinguish A from B in this case.

2. The tolerance gestapo which, incidentally got you to laugh, was the intended humor which dispels poe's law. 3. Short of someone mistaking me for someone which considers the LGBT organizations to reincarnate nazi concentration camps, which would be an amazing conclusion to arrive to in the first place, it can't really touch on Poe's law.

1. That's literally the definitions of Poe's Law.

2. Not really. I laugh at inane bullshit people say and actually believe, all the time.

3. I've heard more outrageous from others on here, and they actually believed it. So, I can't really be blamed for thinking you actually meant it.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I honestly don't understand the psychiatric factors having to do with gender identification but I'm curious as to why it wouldn't be considered a psychiatric condition. That's not to say I think people who are anatomically male that identify as female and vice versa are mentally ill, I'm a fence-sitter on the issue because I'm not quite informed enough to discern for myself. So I guess I'm asking what psychological factors go into personal gender identification and how are those different from a psychological condition like some sort of alternate personality disorder.

The condition itself isn't inherently harmful.

Alternate personalities interfere with people's day to day lives even if society doesn't persecute them. If you make plans, and then one of your other personalities takes over, you can't follow through with your plans. You just lose the time.