Suicide of Leelah Alcorn

[Liriena]

Wait... I'm starting to grasp it... and as I feared, he's putting words into my mouth... and conflating sex with gender.

Gender is the representation of sex within a political, civil, social, or national society. Failure to understand this can be assisted by there being 2 genders and 2 sexes, with the latter being the former in a social aspect.

Do give your definition.

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity. Gender identity is a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.[1] All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between gender attributes assigned to males and females. In all societies, however, some individuals do not identify with some (or all) of the aspects of gender that are assigned to their biological sex. In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex. Although the formation of gender identity is not completely understood, many factors have been suggested as influencing its development. Biological factors that may influence gender identity include pre- and post-natal hormone levels and genetic makeup.

Gosh, I love Wikipedia and its beautifully synthetic writing.

[Putin the Bear King]

Gender is the representation of sex within a political, civil, social, or national society. Failure to understand this can be assisted by there being 2 genders and 2 sexes, with the latter being the former in a social aspect.

Do give your definition.

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity. Gender identity is a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.[1] All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between gender attributes assigned to males and females. In all societies, however, some individuals do not identify with some (or all) of the aspects of gender that are assigned to their biological sex. In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex. Although the formation of gender identity is not completely understood, many factors have been suggested as influencing its development. Biological factors that may influence gender identity include pre- and post-natal hormone levels and genetic makeup.

Gosh, I love Wikipedia and its beautifully synthetic writing.

That supports my claim.

[Liriena]

Fix society yourself, instead of dying because you couldn't handle "the struggle".

Easy for you to say.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-we-will-always-blame-victim_p2/

[Marelius]

Fix society yourself, instead of dying because you couldn't handle "the struggle".

It's not that easy. When you're denied your rights and your basic dignity, and when people judge you constantly, it hurts. It hurt the girl when she was looked down upon and essentially abandoned for her identity. She was driven off the edge. To say that she had to "fix society herself" is inconsiderate, rude, offensive, and selfish.

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all. Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong. That being said, suicide is the easy way out. Saying "I'm out, do this for me pls." is the most idiotic and selfish thing she could have done.

[Putin the Bear King]

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity. Gender identity is a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.[1] All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between gender attributes assigned to males and females. In all societies, however, some individuals do not identify with some (or all) of the aspects of gender that are assigned to their biological sex. In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex. Although the formation of gender identity is not completely understood, many factors have been suggested as influencing its development. Biological factors that may influence gender identity include pre- and post-natal hormone levels and genetic makeup.

Gosh, I love Wikipedia and its beautifully synthetic writing.

That supports my claim.

[Untaroicht]

Suicide of Leelah Josh Alcorn

Fixed that for you

[Marelius]

Fix society yourself, instead of dying because you couldn't handle "the struggle".

Easy for you to say.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-we-will-always-blame-victim_p2/

Even easier for her to say.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

We must work to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Gods, I can't...any parent who doesn't support their children and lets them die like this is a bastard who deserves some kind of punishment. Maybe getting listed as a "sex offender" so they can never again interact with kids.

Gender is the representation of sex within a political, civil, social, or national society. Failure to understand this can be assisted by there being 2 genders and 2 sexes, with the latter being the former in a social aspect.

Do give your definition.

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity. Gender identity is a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.[1] All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between gender attributes assigned to males and females. In all societies, however, some individuals do not identify with some (or all) of the aspects of gender that are assigned to their biological sex. In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex. Although the formation of gender identity is not completely understood, many factors have been suggested as influencing its development. Biological factors that may influence gender identity include pre- and post-natal hormone levels and genetic makeup.

Gosh, I love Wikipedia and its beautifully synthetic writing.

Putin doesn't, because it doesn't say "Western Plot Here".
Go on, place it...

[Fortschritte]

It's not that easy. When you're denied your rights and your basic dignity, and when people judge you constantly, it hurts. It hurt the girl when she was looked down upon and essentially abandoned for her identity. She was driven off the edge. To say that she had to "fix society herself" is inconsiderate, rude, offensive, and selfish.

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all. Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong. That being said, suicide is the easy way out. Saying "I'm out, do this for me pls." is the most idiotic and selfish thing she could have done.

I'm being a hypocrite? Really? Anyways, suicide isn't selfish, don't blame the victim. Sure, it's not always considerate to family and friends, but for many miserable people, suicide feels like the only option. It feels like the only way out for some people, and to blame them for having a miserable feeling that they don't even want is disgusting. As someone who has been on the verge of suicide multiple times, I'm truly disgusted by your remarks.

[Marelius]

Suicide of Leelah Josh Alcorn

Fixed that for you

Both are correct, honestly.

[The Lotophagi]

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all.

As opposed to dragging the name of a teenage girl through the mud after her untimely death, which is entirely selfless. Right.

Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong.

You might want to parse that sentence one more time, since it sounds like you're blaming her for being herself.

[Fortschritte]

Suicide of Leelah Josh Alcorn

Fixed that for you

Do you have to bait people? Really? This is a tragedy, and instead, you want to poke sticks at people to start a debate on transgender issues? Jesus Christ.

[Fartsniffage]

It's not that easy. When you're denied your rights and your basic dignity, and when people judge you constantly, it hurts. It hurt the girl when she was looked down upon and essentially abandoned for her identity. She was driven off the edge. To say that she had to "fix society herself" is inconsiderate, rude, offensive, and selfish.

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all. Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong. That being said, suicide is the easy way out. Saying "I'm out, do this for me pls." is the most idiotic and selfish thing she could have done.

Utter bollocks.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Suicide of Leelah Josh Alcorn

Fixed that for you

Congratulations, you've won~!

[Marelius]

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all. Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong. That being said, suicide is the easy way out. Saying "I'm out, do this for me pls." is the most idiotic and selfish thing she could have done.

I'm being a hypocrite? Really? Anyways, suicide isn't selfish, don't blame the victim. Sure, it's not always considerate to family and friends, but for many miserable people, suicide feels like the only option. It feels like the only way out for some people, and to blame them for having a miserable feeling that they don't even want is disgusting. As someone who has been on the verge of suicide multiple times, I'm truly disgusted by your remarks.

Suicide is selfish. I have no intention to sugarcoat something like that. From a personal standpoint, my sister attempted suicide last year, for several reasons. The only case where i see suicide as justifiable is if excessive torture(followed by death) awaits you. But pussying out because life was really really hard for you is stupid. And even so to use such a selfish act to practically beg society to fix itself. If you actually cared about how trans-gender people are treated, you would have attempted to change that.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

It's not that easy. When you're denied your rights and your basic dignity, and when people judge you constantly, it hurts. It hurt the girl when she was looked down upon and essentially abandoned for her identity. She was driven off the edge. To say that she had to "fix society herself" is inconsiderate, rude, offensive, and selfish.

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all. Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong. That being said, suicide is the easy way out. Saying "I'm out, do this for me pls." is the most idiotic and selfish thing she could have done.

Am I reading this right, or are you really an ass? Others may say that apathy is bad, because it means noone will step up- but contempt is worse. You are showing the latter. Although, I guess that Orthodox Christianity teaches intolerance nearly everywhere it goes, especially in the lands it's been implanted in for a millenium.

[Liriena]

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity. Gender identity is a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.[1] All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between gender attributes assigned to males and females. In all societies, however, some individuals do not identify with some (or all) of the aspects of gender that are assigned to their biological sex. In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex. Although the formation of gender identity is not completely understood, many factors have been suggested as influencing its development. Biological factors that may influence gender identity include pre- and post-natal hormone levels and genetic makeup.

Gosh, I love Wikipedia and its beautifully synthetic writing.

That supports my claim.

If your claim was that there is no legitimacy to the gender identity of transgender people, and that therefor there is no reason to acknowledge their gender identity... then no.

If your claim was that the apparent lack of a social basis to transgender identity makes it illegitimate in comparison to biological sex... then no. To get away with that, you would have to negate several disciplines, including psychiatry, that deal with gender issues.

If your claim was that there was something fallacious in me asking that you recognized Leelah's chosen name and gender identity, because I did not present both name and gender identity as equivalent concepts bound by the same principles and standards... then no. The thing is, you assume names and transgender identity are "false" because they do not seem to abide by your biologicism. For somebody that studies social sciences, that's laughable at best, and offensive at worst.

Names and gender identity being psychological and social-cultural constructs doesn't make them illegitimate, or any less deserving of recognition.

If you feel this response missed your actual claim, feel free to tell me.

[Putin the Bear King]

We must work to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Gods, I can't...any parent who doesn't support their children and lets them die like this is a bastard who deserves some kind of punishment. Maybe getting listed as a "sex offender" so they can never again interact with kids.

Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity. Gender identity is a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.[1] All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between gender attributes assigned to males and females. In all societies, however, some individuals do not identify with some (or all) of the aspects of gender that are assigned to their biological sex. In most Western societies, there exists a gender binary, a social dichotomy that enforces conformance to the ideals of masculinity and femininity in all aspects of gender and sex - gender identity, gender expression and biological sex. Some societies have third gender categories that can be used as a basis for a gender identity by people who are uncomfortable with the gender that is usually associated with their sex; in other societies, membership of any of the gender categories is open to people regardless of their sex. Although the formation of gender identity is not completely understood, many factors have been suggested as influencing its development. Biological factors that may influence gender identity include pre- and post-natal hormone levels and genetic makeup.

Gosh, I love Wikipedia and its beautifully synthetic writing.

Putin doesn't, because it doesn't say "Western Plot Here".
Go on, place it...

brb crying baers

[Marelius]

Oh the hypocrisy. Suicide is the most selfish act of all. Any person being tormented for who they are is fundamentally wrong. That being said, suicide is the easy way out. Saying "I'm out, do this for me pls." is the most idiotic and selfish thing she could have done.

Am I reading this right, or are you really an ass? Others may say that apathy is bad, because it means noone will step up- but contempt is worse. You are showing the latter. Although, I guess that Orthodox Christianity teaches intolerance nearly everywhere it goes, especially in the lands it's been implanted in for a millenium.

Nice bait there. But i neither support the church nor care of what it spouts out.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Was the misgendering really necessary?

I refuse to recognize a person as a different gender unless that person has taken physical transformative surgeries.

Pre-op people can still get very upset about being referred to with a pronoun they don't want, and it's just a word, so why not humor them and call them what they want to be called? It's such a small thing to do, but it really means a lot to some people. Why do something that you know is going to upset them?

[Fortschritte]

I'm being a hypocrite? Really? Anyways, suicide isn't selfish, don't blame the victim. Sure, it's not always considerate to family and friends, but for many miserable people, suicide feels like the only option. It feels like the only way out for some people, and to blame them for having a miserable feeling that they don't even want is disgusting. As someone who has been on the verge of suicide multiple times, I'm truly disgusted by your remarks.

Suicide is selfish. I have no intention to sugarcoat something like that. From a personal standpoint, my sister attempted suicide last year, for several reasons. The only case where i see suicide as justifiable is if excessive torture(followed by death) awaits you. But pussying out because life was really really hard for you is stupid. And even so to use such a selfish act to practically beg society to fix itself. If you actually cared about how trans-gender people are treated, you would have attempted to change that.

It's not pussying out. Suicide is tragic, and it happens when people literally don't see any other options. Very few people who commit suicide truly wanted death, but they saw it as the only option. And, the reason Leela begged people to chance is because it caused her horrible misery. Honestly, show some fucking compassion.

[Liriena]

Easy for you to say.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-we-will-always-blame-victim_p2/

Even easier for her to say.

You don't know that.

Here's the thing: You are not going through the same problems she was. You didn't have the same life she had. So, tell me, who do you think you are to say what she could and should have done?

It's very easy for someone who isn't suffering from severe depression, someone who is thinking with a clear-head, to treat a suicidal person as "weak". It's easy... and it's also narcissistic, and quite disgusting.

Shame on you.

[Liriena]

Fixed that for you

Both are correct, honestly.

No. One is the name she identified with. The other is not.

[Soselo]

Leelah Alcorn is alone.
Leelah Alcorn lost among we.
Leelah Alcorn lost her phone.
Leelah Alcorn is free.

[Geilinor]

Suicide is selfish. I have no intention to sugarcoat something like that. From a personal standpoint, my sister attempted suicide last year, for several reasons. The only case where i see suicide as justifiable is if excessive torture(followed by death) awaits you. But pussying out because life was really really hard for you is stupid. And even so to use such a selfish act to practically beg society to fix itself. If you actually cared about how trans-gender people are treated, you would have attempted to change that.

It's not pussying out. Suicide is tragic, and it happens when people literally don't see any other options. Very few people who commit suicide truly wanted death, but they saw it as the only option. And, the reason Leela begged people to chance is because it caused her horrible misery. Honestly, show some fucking compassion.

I hope this doesn't count as baiting him, but he's just angry that his sister attempted suicide.