Toddler Shoots and Kills Mother

[Seno Zhou Varada]

Then why are you saying it?

Welcome to NSG.

Ah this is NSG's other room eh? I thought it had more wait no found it and... whatever that is.

[Tubbsalot]

the fact is that restricting the availability of guns through a gun ban would leave you in an even better situation

How would you go about implementing something like that?.

Fucked if I know.

Luckily for me, there are makeshift solutions available. Like not living in America.

Make it harder for new firearm owners to buy firearms. Make firearm registration mandatory. Charge people who do not report their firearms stolen and also those who sell firearms without the appropriate transfer of registration.

This isn't sufficient, frankly. The only way to reduce the use of guns for criminal acts is to restrict the general availability of guns, and that means (almost) eliminating the black market for guns, and that means a general ban on guns for civilians for a long time - probably decades. Until then you won't see any really big differences.

Anything short of that might reduce accidental deaths, spontaneous killings sprees, things like that, but you're not going to get any better until you take extreme measures.

[Galloism]

So you just try to dodge it by intentionally misrepresenting your various melee and non-lethal weapons as simply "run at them"

No, "run at them" was always my primary suggestion. Maybe you could find a use for pepper spray somewhere in there, but as I said at the start, you'd probably just grapple them to prevent them from shooting you.

I'm sure that'll work great given I'm currently in physical therapy and basically only able to use one arm to fight with.

Well, and for disabled vietnam veterans using walkers. Shamble faster, grandpa!

[WestRedMaple]

And if you are trained with it, it is still less effective. It's range is much lower. It's ability to penetrate whatever someone is wearing is much lower. It has less stopping power, often leaving even a mortally wounded person ample time to harm or kill the defender.

That doesn't mean that someone extremely well-versed in the knife couldn't be more effective with the knife than someone who has never held a firearm before can be with a firearm, but a person knowing what they are doing with both would be more effective with a decent handgun

You've never trained at all with a knife much at all have you?

1st While it's range is much lower than a gun I'm not expecting (though I should prepare) to get into a shootout that's more than a few (1-4) feet at anytime.
2nd No a knife can penetrate very well if you use it well and considering most street thugs don't wear any proper armor if anyone uses correct technique (no wide slashes, drag the blade across no chopping or stabbing to stick them) they could cut through clothing enough to make large cuts.
3rd Man I just cut you across the gut area opening up your intestines and oh no they fell out. But no your wrong a knife has tons of stopping power if you know where to cut (across the gut area, of course neck, back of the leg high up on the thighs, under and over the armpits) and if you cut them in one of those places especially in the arteries there before you could dial 911 they would be dead and in the intestines just... they're going to be more worried about them falling out than you.
4th I'm not denying they could be equally deadly with both at all I just feel that both have their better uses knives at close range guns at medium to long.

It doesn't seem like you're all that familiar with either firearms or knives.

1) Nonetheless, a firearm can still be extremely effective at ranges which render a knife useless.
2) Sure, a knife can sometimes penetrate well, but that is not always the case (and in nearly every case, a firearm can do it better).
3) Great, you cut them in the gut, and then two seconds later they permanently blind you in an eye....not a great trade just to avoid carrying a firearm which provides more stopping power.
4) I'm not saying don't carry a knife, just pointing out that in most situations, drawing a handgun will be a better option for self-defense than drawing a knife

[Galloism]

How would you go about implementing something like that?.

Fucked if I know.

Luckily for me, there are makeshift solutions available. Like not living in America.

Make it harder for new firearm owners to buy firearms. Make firearm registration mandatory. Charge people who do not report their firearms stolen and also those who sell firearms without the appropriate transfer of registration.

This isn't sufficient, frankly. The only way to reduce the use of guns for criminal acts is to restrict the general availability of guns, and that means (almost) eliminating the black market for guns, and that means a general ban on guns for civilians for a long time - probably decades. Until then you won't see any really big differences.

Anything short of that might reduce accidental deaths, spontaneous killings sprees, things like that, but you're not going to get any better until you take extreme measures.

Or, for half the cost, we could simply put in a real social safety net and public education, and become Switzerland or Sweden.

[Gun Manufacturers]

As all of those examples were self defense, I'd say those examples WERE particularly compelling.

I'll grant that the first and third examples were indeed self-defence, but - and perhaps this is my fault for not including all of the caveats every time - I'm really just interested in situations where the gun is the best response, and the situation couldn't be dealt with by a broader ban on guns. In case A he made the very stupid decision to put his life at risk for the sake of his shoes; generally muggers do not kill their victims afterwards, for several reasons. In case C, again, the victim (i.e. the person who died, although I can see why you'd think otherwise) shouldn't have had a gun in the first place.

The second example was not self-defence. He shot and killed a guy who was driving away. I'm not saying I hold it against him, and apparently it wasn't illegal, but shooting someone who is running away is not self-defence.

The second link I posted for the second example states that the man fired, and THEN the assailant ran away.

Do these examples meet your approval, then?

http://www.theday.com/article/20140325/ ... 59923/1017

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-re ... 322f9.html

http://helenair.com/lifestyles/recreati ... 002e0.html

[WestRedMaple]

So you just try to dodge it by intentionally misrepresenting your various melee and non-lethal weapons as simply "run at them"

No, "run at them" was always my primary suggestion. Maybe you could find a use for pepper spray somewhere in there, but as I said at the start, you'd probably just grapple them to prevent them from shooting you.

The answer is yes, you did claim that other non-lethal and melee weapons would require less preparation. Then you turned around to pretend otherwise

[WestRedMaple]

No, "run at them" was always my primary suggestion. Maybe you could find a use for pepper spray somewhere in there, but as I said at the start, you'd probably just grapple them to prevent them from shooting you.

I'm sure that'll work great given I'm currently in physical therapy and basically only able to use one arm to fight with.

Well, and for disabled vietnam veterans using walkers. Shamble faster, grandpa!

My uncle and my brother's best friend were both wheelchair bound....I wonder if their approved method is 'just roll at them'

[Master Shake]

...

Sounds like a speech deterring masturbation, really.

The next thing that the boy says is "I NEED AN ADULT!"

LOL I just pictured Dragonball Z abridged Gohan saying that to Super Kami Guru....

[United Marxist Nations]

How would you go about implementing something like that?.

Fucked if I know.

Luckily for me, there are makeshift solutions available. Like not living in America.

Make it harder for new firearm owners to buy firearms. Make firearm registration mandatory. Charge people who do not report their firearms stolen and also those who sell firearms without the appropriate transfer of registration.

This isn't sufficient, frankly. The only way to reduce the use of guns for criminal acts is to restrict the general availability of guns, and that means (almost) eliminating the black market for guns, and that means a general ban on guns for civilians for a long time - probably decades. Until then you won't see any really big differences.

Anything short of that might reduce accidental deaths, spontaneous killings sprees, things like that, but you're not going to get any better until you take extreme measures.

How do you explain Switzerland's low murder rate?

And again, until you give a way to implement it, it may as well not be a suggestion at all.

[Galloism]

I'm sure that'll work great given I'm currently in physical therapy and basically only able to use one arm to fight with.

Well, and for disabled vietnam veterans using walkers. Shamble faster, grandpa!

My uncle and my brother's best friend were both wheelchair bound....I wonder if their approved method is 'just roll at them'

Reportedly, it's worked before.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Fucked if I know.

Luckily for me, there are makeshift solutions available. Like not living in America.


This isn't sufficient, frankly. The only way to reduce the use of guns for criminal acts is to restrict the general availability of guns, and that means (almost) eliminating the black market for guns, and that means a general ban on guns for civilians for a long time - probably decades. Until then you won't see any really big differences.

Anything short of that might reduce accidental deaths, spontaneous killings sprees, things like that, but you're not going to get any better until you take extreme measures.

Or, for half the cost, we could simply put in a real social safety net and public education, and become Switzerland or Sweden.

Neither Sweden nor Switzerland has a gun culture where firearms are seen as necessary personal protection.

[Anollasia]

Condolences to family and friends. This made me sad.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Fucked if I know.

Luckily for me, there are makeshift solutions available. Like not living in America.


This isn't sufficient, frankly. The only way to reduce the use of guns for criminal acts is to restrict the general availability of guns, and that means (almost) eliminating the black market for guns, and that means a general ban on guns for civilians for a long time - probably decades. Until then you won't see any really big differences.

Anything short of that might reduce accidental deaths, spontaneous killings sprees, things like that, but you're not going to get any better until you take extreme measures.

How do you explain Switzerland's low murder rate?

And again, until you give a way to implement it, it may as well not be a suggestion at all.

Because it's very difficult to buy ammunition in switzerland.

[Galloism]

Or, for half the cost, we could simply put in a real social safety net and public education, and become Switzerland or Sweden.

Neither Sweden nor Switzerland has a gun culture where firearms are seen as necessary personal protection.

So?

Studies suggest that has little to do with our crime rate. Our crime rate is mostly influenced by socioeconomic factors.

Like everywhere else in the world.

[United Marxist Nations]

Or, for half the cost, we could simply put in a real social safety net and public education, and become Switzerland or Sweden.

Neither Sweden nor Switzerland has a gun culture where firearms are seen as necessary personal protection.

Is that why Switzerland mandates that its young men be trained in the use of an assault rifle, as well as actively maintaining it?

[Seno Zhou Varada]

You've never trained at all with a knife much at all have you?

1st While it's range is much lower than a gun I'm not expecting (though I should prepare) to get into a shootout that's more than a few (1-4) feet at anytime.
2nd No a knife can penetrate very well if you use it well and considering most street thugs don't wear any proper armor if anyone uses correct technique (no wide slashes, drag the blade across no chopping or stabbing to stick them) they could cut through clothing enough to make large cuts.
3rd Man I just cut you across the gut area opening up your intestines and oh no they fell out. But no your wrong a knife has tons of stopping power if you know where to cut (across the gut area, of course neck, back of the leg high up on the thighs, under and over the armpits) and if you cut them in one of those places especially in the arteries there before you could dial 911 they would be dead and in the intestines just... they're going to be more worried about them falling out than you.
4th I'm not denying they could be equally deadly with both at all I just feel that both have their better uses knives at close range guns at medium to long.

It doesn't seem like you're all that familiar with either firearms or knives.

1) Nonetheless, a firearm can still be extremely effective at ranges which render a knife useless.
2) Sure, a knife can sometimes penetrate well, but that is not always the case (and in nearly every case, a firearm can do it better).
3) Great, you cut them in the gut, and then two seconds later they permanently blind you in an eye....not a great trade just to avoid carrying a firearm which provides more stopping power.
4) I'm not saying don't carry a knife, just pointing out that in most situations, drawing a handgun will be a better option for self-defense than drawing a knife

1 Yes a gun is very effective at ranges just not exactly at close range where being disarmed is more likely
2 Yes but tell me while depending on the bullet does a firearm lead to huge losses of blood most of the time that can't be survived without immediate medical attention within a few seconds if shot lets say in the gut or upper thigh (well if the bullet hit an artery yes)
3 No if you made a long cut there their intestines will start falling out giving you more time as they're distracted by the organs falling out for you to slice them even more fatally. And any person who's trained will keep moving and not just then stand there.
4 Of course a handgun is pretty good for common thugs and anything more isn't likely needed for them with the threat of a gun I just find that a knife is way more effective

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 842AAtoCBs
Read Dmitri's response.

[Master Shake]

How do you explain Switzerland's low murder rate?

And again, until you give a way to implement it, it may as well not be a suggestion at all.

Because it's very difficult to buy ammunition in switzerland.

Reminds me of a Chris Rock joke...

How do we stop innocent bystanders being killed in drive by shootings?

Well easy. Make the cost of a single bullet $5,000 dollars...

If they want to kill someone then they need to be very accurate.

[Shilya]

Neither Sweden nor Switzerland has a gun culture where firearms are seen as necessary personal protection.

Is that why Switzerland mandates that its young men be trained in the use of an assault rifle, as well as actively maintaining it?

No, the reason for that is the defense of the country, not yourself.

[United Marxist Nations]

How do you explain Switzerland's low murder rate?

And again, until you give a way to implement it, it may as well not be a suggestion at all.

Because it's very difficult to buy ammunition in switzerland.

No it isn't.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Neither Sweden nor Switzerland has a gun culture where firearms are seen as necessary personal protection.

So?

Studies suggest that has little to do with our crime rate.

And which studies would they be? You mean that crappy Harvard one which doesn't even bother explaining why international data samples often don't correlate?

Our crime rate is mostly influenced by socioeconomic factors.

Like everywhere else in the world.

It matters because people in a poor socioeconomic state, normally who would be turned to crime, have access to firearms and ammunition in the US whereas they largely don't in Sweden or Switzerland.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Because it's very difficult to buy ammunition in switzerland.

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

[Master Shake]

Because it's very difficult to buy ammunition in switzerland.

No it isn't.

Hmm. so how was your trip to Geneva?

[Geilinor]

Neither Sweden nor Switzerland has a gun culture where firearms are seen as necessary personal protection.

Is that why Switzerland mandates that its young men be trained in the use of an assault rifle, as well as actively maintaining it?

That is, however, the only purpose for which people are expected to have a gun. I'm sure that they're trained very well in gun safety and also in the principles of defending others when necessary.

[Galloism]

So?

Studies suggest that has little to do with our crime rate.

And which studies would they be? You mean that crappy Harvard one which doesn't even bother explaining why international data samples often don't correlate?

Our crime rate is mostly influenced by socioeconomic factors.

Like everywhere else in the world.

It matters because people in a poor socioeconomic state, normally who would be turned to crime, have access to firearms and ammunition in the US whereas they largely don't in Sweden or Switzerland.

Largely, those people who are in such a poor socioeconomic state they must turn to crime are in much fewer numbers, proportionally, in Sweden and Switzerland.

Because of the fucking safety net.