Toddler Shoots and Kills Mother

[Parhe]

So what should this woman have done with her gun? Left it at home?

Well actually the law says yes.

Can't bring a gun into a building that holds more than 1000 people.

Is that with the capacity to? I don't know but around here Walmart's at most have around a few hundred people at a time.

[Tubbsalot]

So what should this woman have done with her gun? Left it at home?

Unless she had a particular reason to believe she needed one, she shouldn't have owned a gun. But since she did, yes, she should have left it at home.

Here's 3 examples of a concealed carry permit holder using a concealed weapon in self defense.

... So Jabbar went outside to the sidewalk and pulled a gun on a man who had just bought the shoes, Phares said. Only, the man had a gun, too.

... Lummus, who has a concealed handgun permit, pulled out his gun and fired several shots, hitting Carmillio as he was trying to get away in a vehicle. ... Carmillio drove off, but eventually died in the car, causing it to crash into a parked vehicle.

... Van Hermert entered a bedroom and returned with a loaded handgun. Smith, believing that his and his sister’s lives were in danger, drew his own handgun and fired five shots at Van Hemert.

So your examples are situations where a) he should have just given up the shoes and informed the police, b) it wasn't self-defence, and c) the victim shouldn't have been allowed to own a gun in the first place. I appreciate the effort, but none of these are particularly compelling.

[Spoder]

Well actually the law says yes.

Can't bring a gun into a building that holds more than 1000 people.

Is that with the capacity to? I don't know but around here Walmart's at most have around a few hundred people at a time.

Not entirely certain.

[MERIZoC]

Kept it out of reach of the child, for one. And then kept the safety on (if there was one), not have it cocked, and all in all, not have it immediately ready to fire. Though keeping it at home is fine too.

Well, I mean, I don't think a purse is a responsible place to carry. It's too easy to lift (as this has shown). I'm very much a proponent of body carrying, where the weight is noticeable and not easily forgotten about.

However, leaving the gun at home, unless in a very fixed heavy safe, is pretty irresponsible. One of the largest ways criminals get guns is via home theft.

Sure. Whatever works. And if she has guns, then she should have a safe to go with them.

[Tubbsalot]

However, leaving the gun at home, unless in a very fixed heavy safe, is pretty irresponsible. One of the largest ways criminals get guns is via home theft.

Again, this is really an argument for not allowing civilians to have guns.

If that was why they required you to carry, then that's ridiculous. If only detectives are keeping their guns on them, then the supply of illegal weapons is reduced by like 0.001%. Whoopee.

[Hawshia]

This is exactly why the US should be more like England and just outlaw guns and take them away permanently . Not sating they can;t hunt but Handguns ? SO I can't buy a stupid chocolate Kinder Egg in a USA Walmart but I can buy a bunch of Handguns ? Honestly ?

[Spoder]

This is exactly why the US should be more like England and just outlaw guns and take them away permanently . Not sating they can;t hunt but Handguns ? SO I can't buy a stupid chocolate Kinder Egg in a USA Walmart but I can buy a bunch of Handguns ? Honestly ?

So why not outlaw alcohol and tobacco. Those kill more people in the US on their own.

[Kazirstan]

If civilians were not allowed to carry firearms around in public, then none of this would have happened. Why do you even need to carry your gun around in Walmart? In Canada, we don't carry firearms around with us, and the country is still running (and has a lower murder rate, and a less corrupt government). It's pointless, and dangerous.

[Master Shake]

I'd put that kid up for adoption if it were my son. Two years old and already pointing a gun at its mother. Yeah I'm sure junior won't wait to shot his dad too...

F'ing school shooters. Cowards!!! Grow balls and fight your bullies with your fists and not your daddy's AR15!!!!

I had to fight all my battles with my fists and I don't go around shooting for fun...

You want to raise the kid?

Put him in juvenile hall and be done with it...

[St Williams Parr County]

At least the father was there by his side while he was growing up. Of course, when he is growing up.

I'd put that kid up for adoption if it were my son. Two years old and already pointing a gun at its mother. Yeah I'm sure junior won't wait to shot his dad too...

F'ing school shooters. Cowards!!! Grow balls and fight your bullies with your fists and not your daddy's AR15!!!!

I had to fight all my battles with my fists and I don't go around shooting for fun...

Ahem!

[Parhe]

This is exactly why the US should be more like England and just outlaw guns and take them away permanently . Not sating they can;t hunt but Handguns ? SO I can't buy a stupid chocolate Kinder Egg in a USA Walmart but I can buy a bunch of Handguns ? Honestly ?

I don't see that being very useful in a country already with an existing "gun population" and culture. I don't see the government being able to really confiscate guns forcibly from everyone. They could outlaw it and, if it passed, people may turn in their handguns but the people least likely to are either those with the strongest gun culture and/or those inclined to criminal acts that may involve use of a handgun. I support the idea but I don't see it as something that can be enforced with available technology and funds.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

At least the father was there by his side while he was growing up. Of course, when he is growing up.

I'd put that kid up for adoption if it were my son. Two years old and already pointing a gun at its mother. Yeah I'm sure junior won't wait to shot his dad too...

F'ing school shooters. Cowards!!! Grow balls and fight your bullies with your fists and not your daddy's AR15!!!!

I had to fight all my battles with my fists and I don't go around shooting for fun...

[MERIZoC]

You want to raise the kid?

Put him in juvenile hall and be done with it...

…He's two.

[Tubbsalot]

This is exactly why the US should be more like England and just outlaw guns and take them away permanently . Not sating they can;t hunt but Handguns ? SO I can't buy a stupid chocolate Kinder Egg in a USA Walmart but I can buy a bunch of Handguns ? Honestly ?

I don't see that being very useful in a country already with an existing "gun population" and culture. I don't see the government being able to really confiscate guns forcibly from everyone. They could outlaw it and, if it passed, people may turn in their handguns but the people least likely to are either those with the strongest gun culture and/or those inclined to criminal acts that may involve use of a handgun. I support the idea but I don't see it as something that can be enforced with available technology and funds.

It's a long-term thing. It would suck, but it wouldn't be impossibly difficult or expensive. Once the supply of guns had been reduced substantially the situation would approach that of other developed nations (with knock-on positive effects in Mexico, etc, as a bonus).

[Geilinor]

You want to raise the kid?

Put him in juvenile hall and be done with it...

…He's two.

How are we going to make sure that the person who adopts him never buys a gun?

[Tubbsalot]

…He's two.

How are we going to make sure that the person who adopts him never buys a gun?

You're right. Juvie is too lenient. Lock him up and throw away the key, the murdering bastard.

[WestRedMaple]

Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).

If someone's pointing a gun at you and wants to kill you, you're fucked. Doesn't matter whether you have a gun, a knife, pepper spray or nothing. Your wallet would probably be a much better option than any of those.

But if you really wanted to try, you'd probably have the best chance if you lunged at them and attempted to grapple the gun away unarmed.

edit: oh yeah, it's also worth noting that I asked for realistic scenarios. This is not a realistic scenario. People don't just walk up to random strangers and inform them they're going to be shot. The closest you'd get is in gang initiations, and even then, no.

No, I am correcting your erroneous assumption. I do not care if you agree with my views. They are backed by evidence. For example (should you be inclined to look at evidence of your error), see the two conveniently labeled links in my sig.

Great. "You're wrong but I can't be bothered explaining why, just read through these giant lists which may or may not have anything to do with your question. Don't worry about the site being called 'guns save lives,' they're not biased or cherrypicking or anything like that. Peace out."

You asked for realistic scenarios, and I gave you one that has actually happened. It sounds like maybe you're confused by the meaning of "realistic".

If you think you're better with your hands than with a firearm, then you must be woefully useless with a handgun.

[Master Shake]

You want to raise the kid?

Put him in juvenile hall and be done with it...

…He's two.

True. Put him in an crib made out of iron and make sure it has a locking roof. He will transported to another facility when he turns 5...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

…He's two.

True. Put him in an crib made out of iron and make sure it has a locking roof. He will transported to another facility when he turns 5...

Why?

[Organized States]

"The only thing to stop a Two-year old with a gun is another two year old with a gun!"

If civilians were not allowed to carry firearms around in public, then none of this would have happened. Why do you even need to carry your gun around in Walmart? In Canada, we don't carry firearms around with us, and the country is still running (and has a lower murder rate, and a less corrupt government). It's pointless, and dangerous.

Please. We're not going to amend the constitution and outlaw every firearm over a group of isolated incidents that could be fixed easily with more education programs such as gun safety courses (that the NRA and a number of other groups offer for free or at low cost).

[Tubbsalot]

You asked for realistic scenarios, and I gave you one that has actually happened. It sounds like maybe you're confused by the meaning of "realistic".

No, it was a perfectly reasonable scenario, it's just that a gun wouldn't help you in that scenario. Which was sort of my point.

If you think you're better with your hands than with a firearm, then you must be woefully useless with a handgun.

If someone is pointing a gun at you from a metre away, then yes, you have a much much much better chance if you rush them vs. if you pull your gun out and try to fire before your prepared, already-aimed assailant.

[Master Shake]

True. Put him in an crib made out of iron and make sure it has a locking roof. He will transported to another facility when he turns 5...

Why?

He's too young for rehabilitation...Right?

[Geilinor]

How are we going to make sure that the person who adopts him never buys a gun?

You're right. Juvie is too lenient. Lock him up and throw away the key, the murdering bastard.

I didn't say juvie was too lenient.

[WestRedMaple]

If the alternative is worse, then most certainly. A guy I went to high school with did it and survived without a scratch.....which would be far better in my opinion than getting shot by the criminal

That just seems like the most stupid action one could take in such a circumstance. Unless one is subject to a mob hit then surely the odds of surviving the encounter are much higher if one just complies with the demands of the criminal.

So if the criminal's demand is that you die, then you think compliance is your best bet.....

I made no mention of being forced to pull a firearm in any possible situation. If you are in a situation where you DO need to defend yourself, doing nothing is idiotic.

[MERIZoC]

True. Put him in an crib made out of iron and make sure it has a locking roof. He will transported to another facility when he turns 5...

Why?

Because messing with people is fun.