Toddler Shoots and Kills Mother

[Big Jim P]

That's.... probably not true. Statistics vary wildly on this subject, and there's significant variation based on propensity to suicide and geographic location.

If you think about suicide daily and live in Maine, that might be a true statement. If you're reasonably well adjusted and live in Miami, it's almost assuredly false.

Yeah, so like I said, I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home and using it in self defense.

Most people are very unlikely to use a gun in either manner.

[Imperializt Russia]

A big problem, in my opinion, is the rampart presence of fear throughout America and the world. People are naturally frightful creatures, so having the opportunity of buying a gun and protecting yourself against all those scary things is a logical choice to make. Humans are good at being afraid and amplifying their own fear through their fantasy and hypotheticals, which is why buying a gun seems like a reasonable decision, while it is in fact a gross overreaction.

It's also a similar reason why we buy lottery tickets; just in case we're part of that 0.001%. We always overestimate our chances.

Frankly I'm not willing to take the chance given that I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home than using it in self defense.

You're more likely to be killed with your own firearm than you are to kill someone in self defence, maybe so.
IIRC, being killed with your own firearm in the home is a function mostly of accidental discharge and domestic homicide.

You don't have a kill a person to defend yourself using a firearm.

[Mavorpen]

Yeah, so like I said, I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home and using it in self defense.

Most people are very unlikely to use a gun in either manner.

Well...yeah. I don't see the relevance to me, specifically, but that's indeed true.

[Aelex]

[Galloism]

That's.... probably not true. Statistics vary wildly on this subject, and there's significant variation based on propensity to suicide and geographic location.

If you think about suicide daily and live in Maine, that might be a true statement. If you're reasonably well adjusted and live in Miami, it's almost assuredly false.

Yeah, so like I said, I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home and using it in self defense.

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

[Esternial]

Frankly I'm not willing to take the chance given that I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home than using it in self defense.

That's.... probably not true. Statistics vary wildly on this subject, and there's significant variation based on propensity to suicide and geographic location.

If you think about suicide daily and live in Maine, that might be a true statement. If you're reasonably well adjusted and live in Miami, it's almost assuredly false.

I did find an article that claims otherwise:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 101532.htm

Though there might as well be others that say the opposite.

[Big Jim P]

So detectives should only carry guns when they're headed into gang territory, and leave it in their car when they're questioning witnesses and doing investigations, because forcefield?

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

I'm talking about the average citizen, who does not put themselves in particularly dangerous situations, and is not intended to ever be in a situation requiring the use of medium-range disabling weaponry.

I am not talking about FBI agents, or SWAT teams, or military personnel. As should be readily apparent, even to someone who's just dropped in at the end of the argument.

http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/

there, I removed it from my sig, so maybe you can see it better. Your refusal to look at the evidence that proves you wrong does not make it go away.

https://www.google.com/search?q=guns+don%27t+save+lives

Here, have a link of your own. I'm right you're wrong, solid evidence right there. Sorry guy better luck next time.

Oh, what's that? You don't WANT to search through fifty billion random webpages? I'm supposed to make my OWN argument instead of telling you to do my work for me?? Oh, gosh, I don't think I like this whole "debate" thing!

Jesus fucking christ, is there anyone on "the other side" who's willing to talk like a reasonable human being?

Would you prefer I just link to a single incident? After all, that is all it takes to prove your statement wrong.

[Mikeswill]

This Pacifist here actually owns a gun... a 1909 Colt 45 Revolver that said toddler would have had difficulty lifting let alone shooting. Fortunately I gave up my hollow point bullets some years ago so it remains unloaded and serves as an antique.

Nevertheless, said mom is what we call in English, aside from dead, STUPID! Anyone who has a loaded firearm within reach of any other individual especially a child or toddler is stupid. When I was a child I was taught gun safety and the purpose of a firearm which is to kill. If my firearm is ever loaded it will be at my side not in some purse next to a baby in Wall-Mart.

Regardless of my political beliefs the actions of the mother was fatal. For the rest of you who carry guns let us hope you aren't as stupid. But even in Texas, if you decide to kill someone with your gun even if it is on your own property you risk jail time as a Williamson County citizen found out after killing a drunk youth who had been in a car wreck nearby.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yeah, so like I said, I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home and using it in self defense.

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

I get the impression you'd find very few proponents of that viewpoint.
Minimising gun suicides in the US is seen as a goal by some, IIRC.

[Mavorpen]

Yeah, so like I said, I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home and using it in self defense.

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

Yeah, so like I said, if a gun makes you feel safer and has actually helped you, good for you.

That's just really unlikely to happen for me, so I'm personally not taking the chance.

[Drekka]

That feel when a gun ethusiast website (The Firearm Blog)
can have more respectful conversations then NSG. Yes, it's unfortunate
That this happened but it could have much less likely to have happened
If the mother showed her child about the CCW and how it isn't a toy.
Also a proper holster may have made things.

My condolences to the family.

[Grande Republic of Arcadia]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/30/toddler-shoots-womanwithherowngun.html

A Walmart store in northern Idaho was the scene of the latest tragedy in a spate of accidental killings on Tuesday, when a toddler shot and killed his mother with the gun she was carrying in her purse, authorities said.

Kootenai County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Stu Miller said that the woman, whose identity was not released, was shopping at a Walmart in a suburb of Coeur d’Alene with four children in tow. Authorities confirmed that the 2-year-old boy was the woman's son, but it was not clear how she was related to the other children.

"One of the children, a boy about 2 years old, reached into the woman’s purse at about 11:15 a.m., and the weapon accidentally discharged," Miller told reporters.

The woman had a concealed weapons permit, and Miller noted on Twitter that a preliminary investigation “shows shooting was accidental. 1 female victim, late 20s, is deceased."

The fatal shooting is only the latest in a succession of accidental killings this year. Last month a 3-year-old boy reportedly shot and killed his mother while she changed his sister’s diaper. A 12-year-old boy accidentally shot his 9-year-old sister in Newark, New Jersey with what was reportedly a stolen handgun.

In April a 3-year-old girl shot and killed her 2-year-old brother with a .22 caliber rifle in Utah. That same month a 2-year-old boy shot and killed his 11-year-old sister with a handgun he apparently believed was a toy.

The accidental shooting death of a gun instructor in August by a 9-year-old girl during a demonstration of a submachine gun reignited debate about gun safety and whether children should be allowed anywhere near them.

The action group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America have long called for a “national discussion about children and guns” and stated after the August incident that they were urging the members and the public to find new ways to act against gun violence in the coming year.

Firstly my thoughts and condolences go out to this woman's family and friends. It seems like accidental gun deaths are in the news a lot lately. What's the answer to these killings? Up to 100 children die each year in the US from accidental shootings, and thats still not counting adults. So how do we combat this? Regular gun control? Or specific laws targeting guns in households with children? I'd prefer to see restrictions on firearms in houses with children, but we've also got to educate people about the dangers of these weapons. This woman clearly wasn't carrying the gun in a safe spot. Can we make sure that people know how to properly and safely carry and store firearms?

Raise your children around guns teach them gun safety.KEEP SAFETY ON!They them point the gun down range or at the floor.Never at a person!I t should prevent these accidents

[Esternial]

Yeah, so like I said, I'm more likely to be killed with my own gun in the home and using it in self defense.

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

I'm personally a supporter of dying with dignity, through euthanasia.

Blowing a hole through your skull, in my opinion, shouldn't be endorsed.

[Big Jim P]

Here you go Tubbs:

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/v ... g-threats/

[Galloism]

So detectives should only carry guns when they're headed into gang territory, and leave it in their car when they're questioning witnesses and doing investigations, because forcefield?

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

I'm talking about the average citizen, who does not put themselves in particularly dangerous situations, and is not intended to ever be in a situation requiring the use of medium-range disabling weaponry.

I am not talking about FBI agents, or SWAT teams, or military personnel. As should be readily apparent, even to someone who's just dropped in at the end of the argument.

Not at all: you said a concealed gun is NOT useful in self defense in any situation where nonlethal means aren't just as useful.

I'm pondering why a detective running down to the corner store to get a pack of cigarettes before he goes to question a witness needs a gun for self defense, but it's completely fully ass useless for me when I run down to the store for a gallon of milk.

(Hell, millennia ago when I was FHP, we were required to carry a weapon when off-duty, preferably concealed).

[Esternial]

Here you go Tubbs:

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/v ... g-threats/

That same incident could be used as an argument that we shouldn't let anyone but the police have guns. Then the man making the threats might not have even had that gun and thus wouldn't require the use of a gun for self-defense.

[Imperializt Russia]

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

I'm personally a supporter of dying with dignity, through euthanasia.

Blowing a hole through your skull, in my opinion, shouldn't be endorsed.

>insert inappropriate Futurama reference here

[Imperializt Russia]

Are you being wilfully obtuse?

I'm talking about the average citizen, who does not put themselves in particularly dangerous situations, and is not intended to ever be in a situation requiring the use of medium-range disabling weaponry.

I am not talking about FBI agents, or SWAT teams, or military personnel. As should be readily apparent, even to someone who's just dropped in at the end of the argument.

Not at all: you said a concealed gun is NOT useful in self defense in any situation where nonlethal means aren't just as useful.

I'm pondering why a detective running down to the corner store to get a pack of cigarettes before he goes to question a witness needs a gun for self defense, but it's completely fully ass useless for me when I run down to the store for a gallon of milk.

(Hell, millennia ago when I was FHP, we were required to carry a weapon when off-duty, preferably concealed).

What is FHP, out of curiosity?

[Galloism]

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

I'm personally a supporter of dying with dignity, through euthanasia.

Blowing a hole through your skull, in my opinion, shouldn't be endorsed.

Well, I will agree with you and all, but until everyone catches up with us and let's is have death clinics, I'm afraid I'll have to be quasi-ok with just empowerment.

But let's not thread jack into the ethics of suicide.

[Mavorpen]

Not at all: you said a concealed gun is NOT useful in self defense in any situation where nonlethal means aren't just as useful.

I'm pondering why a detective running down to the corner store to get a pack of cigarettes before he goes to question a witness needs a gun for self defense, but it's completely fully ass useless for me when I run down to the store for a gallon of milk.

(Hell, millennia ago when I was FHP, we were required to carry a weapon when off-duty, preferably concealed).

What is FHP, out of curiosity?

My guess is "Flamin' Hot Person."

[Galloism]

Not at all: you said a concealed gun is NOT useful in self defense in any situation where nonlethal means aren't just as useful.

I'm pondering why a detective running down to the corner store to get a pack of cigarettes before he goes to question a witness needs a gun for self defense, but it's completely fully ass useless for me when I run down to the store for a gallon of milk.

(Hell, millennia ago when I was FHP, we were required to carry a weapon when off-duty, preferably concealed).

What is FHP, out of curiosity?

Florida highway patrol.

[Cyrisnia]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/30/toddler-shoots-womanwithherowngun.html

Firstly my thoughts and condolences go out to this woman's family and friends. It seems like accidental gun deaths are in the news a lot lately. What's the answer to these killings? Up to 100 children die each year in the US from accidental shootings, and thats still not counting adults. So how do we combat this? Regular gun control? Or specific laws targeting guns in households with children? I'd prefer to see restrictions on firearms in houses with children, but we've also got to educate people about the dangers of these weapons. This woman clearly wasn't carrying the gun in a safe spot. Can we make sure that people know how to properly and safely carry and store firearms?

Raise your children around guns teach them gun safety.KEEP SAFETY ON!They them point the gun down range or at the floor.Never at a person!I t should prevent these accidents

...you do know you can't do that with a 2 year old, correct?

I'm personally a supporter of dying with dignity, through euthanasia.

Blowing a hole through your skull, in my opinion, shouldn't be endorsed.

>insert inappropriate Futurama reference here

[Aelex]

But then again, given my notion that suicide is sometimes the rational choice, I don't view it as something that should be avoided by any means necessary.

Guns, in that way, can be empowering regarding a person carrying out their true wishes. That's not inherently bad.

Yeah... And at least, guns are a pretty clean way to finish yourself, you don't shit in your pant and die with an erection as with hanging nor vomishing for three hours and dying in your own vomit as with drugs...
But just remember, if you have to shoot yourself, don't put the gun in your temple but in your mouth. This way, the bullet won't ricoche but will go fullway throught your brains!

[Mavorpen]

I'm personally a supporter of dying with dignity, through euthanasia.

Blowing a hole through your skull, in my opinion, shouldn't be endorsed.

Well, I will agree with you and all, but until everyone catches up with us and let's is have death clinics, I'm afraid I'll have to be quasi-ok with just empowerment.

But let's not thread jack into the ethics of suicide.

Wait, we were talking about the ethics of suicide? I was just saying that personally I'm not interested in going off of my suicidal thoughts until I'm ready, so I'm not really content about the idea of owning a gun.

Preferably until my favorite manga series end. *nods*

[Cyrisnia]

What is FHP, out of curiosity?

My guess is "Flamin' Hot Person."

I sense something.