There is a reason that Idaho is looking so nice....It is just like the America the founding fathers lived in!
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by Master Shake » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:01 pm
by Paddy O Fernature » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:02 pm
Luziyca wrote:It could've been avoided if gun control laws were implemented....
Greater Weselton wrote:Why did this person have a gun at Wal-Mart?
by Trygg » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:03 pm
by New Tsavon » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:04 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Which Tubbs refuses to acknowledge.
by Kalifati Arab shqiptar » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:05 pm
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:06 pm
Trygg wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:Ok, well, how about describing that situation like I asked for multiple times in the post you quoted. Preferably the sort of situation which could happen on a regular basis.
A trio of masked dwarves collectively point a banana painted black with a sharpie at you, demanding your Mithril and NOW DAMMIT. Upon hearing this occurrence, your gun becomes sentient, turns it's safety off, and BAM, you get a slot on the five o'clock news for heroically filling three small people with threatening beards full of lead while simultaneously saving all the local schoolchildren and preserving our guaranteed right to defend ourselves from facial hair and fruit.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:06 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:07 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:A knife is nearly always less effective than a firearm.Unless you're already in a situation where you are wrapped up grappling with an opponent, a firearm is the clear winner. A knife is a poor choice for self-defense. It has very poor stopping ability in comparison to a firearm or bludgeoning weapon. Pepper spray is quite inadequate. It's range is very short, it is quite ineffective if you cannot get at someone's face, it's not very effective on everyone, a decent wind can make it very difficult to use or even cause you to get more of it than your target, recovery from its effects is much faster, and even if you've effectively applied it, it still has less stopping power than a firearm, leaving your attacker more opportunity to hurt you.
New Tsavon wrote:We'll never know, then.
New Tsavon wrote:There are a lot of examples of firearms being used for self defense.
Big Jim P wrote:"Reading a giant list" of documented cases that proved your statement about guns being useless for self defense wrong.
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:07 pm
Soldati senza confini wrote:Big Jim P wrote:
A CCW to carry, but no permit to own, and there are bills to allow constitutional carry in the State legislature as we speak. Hopefully they will pass.
I'd be okay with either carry (CCW or Open-Carry) if a license was issued.
I refuse to be in the same place as an utter idiot who doesn't know how to put the safety lock on their gun.
by Seno Zhou Varada » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:07 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:Tubbsalot wrote: There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
by Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:09 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Soldati senza confini wrote:
I'd be okay with either carry (CCW or Open-Carry) if a license was issued.
I refuse to be in the same place as an utter idiot who doesn't know how to put the safety lock on their gun.
Actually, open carry of long-arms is legal in Texas. It is only the open carry of handguns that is illegal. A remnant from the reconstruction era.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Seno Zhou Varada » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:10 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:The person presumably has their weapon ready and is at close range. You have to ready the gun and then use it at a range where a knife would be a superior weapon. Pepper spray would be a better choice for multiple reasons.
Because I'm not aware of these examples, can't think of any myself, and you're theoretically attempting to convince me of your views.
A knife is nearly always less effective than a firearm. Unless you're already in a situation where you are wrapped up grappling with an opponent, a firearm is the clear winner. A knife is a poor choice for self-defense. It has very poor stopping ability in comparison to a firearm or bludgeoning weapon. Pepper spray is quite inadequate. It's range is very short, it is quite ineffective if you cannot get at someone's face, it's not very effective on everyone, a decent wind can make it very difficult to use or even cause you to get more of it than your target, recovery from its effects is much faster, and even if you've effectively applied it, it still has less stopping power than a firearm, leaving your attacker more opportunity to hurt you.
by Mikeswill » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:10 pm
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:11 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:WestRedMaple wrote:A knife is nearly always less effective than a firearm.Unless you're already in a situation where you are wrapped up grappling with an opponent, a firearm is the clear winner. A knife is a poor choice for self-defense. It has very poor stopping ability in comparison to a firearm or bludgeoning weapon. Pepper spray is quite inadequate. It's range is very short, it is quite ineffective if you cannot get at someone's face, it's not very effective on everyone, a decent wind can make it very difficult to use or even cause you to get more of it than your target, recovery from its effects is much faster, and even if you've effectively applied it, it still has less stopping power than a firearm, leaving your attacker more opportunity to hurt you.
Given that most encounters are going to be short-range, and you're not carrying your gun ready to fire, you are highly likely to be either grappling or severely/lethally wounded. So yes, a non-lethal or melee weapon would be preferable, especially since they require less preparation.New Tsavon wrote:We'll never know, then.
Indeed, which was my entire point. You can't say "the safety wasn't on, the mother was stupid" because we have no way of knowing if that's actually true.New Tsavon wrote:There are a lot of examples of firearms being used for self defense.
Great, well, how about you describe a situation which could reasonably occur, and explain why a gun is the best option for that situation.Big Jim P wrote:"Reading a giant list" of documented cases that proved your statement about guns being useless for self defense wrong.
Yeah. I checked the links; they're just a bunch of random articles. I've no doubt they describe people using their guns for self-defence, because that does happen, I'm just arguing that there are always better options. And I don't think they'll address that point of mine.
And frankly, even if one does, I'm not sifting through 50 articles to find it. You might as well link me to a google search of "self defence with guns" and act like you've proven me wrong.
Tubbsalot wrote:
There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:12 pm
Soldati senza confini wrote:Big Jim P wrote:
Actually, open carry of long-arms is legal in Texas. It is only the open carry of handguns that is illegal. A remnant from the reconstruction era.
Then fuck it, next thing we should be doing is introducing gun safety classes in schools.
Look, I don't disagree with people carrying weapons. But I want to be sure that those who are issued a gun are not complete irresponsible tools.
by Ayreonia » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:14 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Soldati senza confini wrote:
Then fuck it, next thing we should be doing is introducing gun safety classes in schools.
Look, I don't disagree with people carrying weapons. But I want to be sure that those who are issued a gun are not complete irresponsible tools.
We used to have gun-safety (and gun clubs) in schools.
by Master Shake » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:14 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Soldati senza confini wrote:
Then fuck it, next thing we should be doing is introducing gun safety classes in schools.
Look, I don't disagree with people carrying weapons. But I want to be sure that those who are issued a gun are not complete irresponsible tools.
We used to have gun-safety (and gun clubs) in schools.
by Master Shake » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:15 pm
by Mikeswill » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:15 pm
by Esternial » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:15 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:Given that most encounters are going to be short-range, and you're not carrying your gun ready to fire, you are highly likely to be either grappling or severely/lethally wounded. So yes, a non-lethal or melee weapon would be preferable, especially since they require less preparation.
Indeed, which was my entire point. You can't say "the safety wasn't on, the mother was stupid" because we have no way of knowing if that's actually true.
Great, well, how about you describe a situation which could reasonably occur, and explain why a gun is the best option for that situation.
Yeah. I checked the links; they're just a bunch of random articles. I've no doubt they describe people using their guns for self-defence, because that does happen, I'm just arguing that there are always better options. And I don't think they'll address that point of mine.
And frankly, even if one does, I'm not sifting through 50 articles to find it. You might as well link me to a google search of "self defence with guns" and act like you've proven me wrong.
So, you refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong when you stated this, even in the face of evidence to the contrary:Tubbsalot wrote:
There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
by Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:16 pm
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