New Greek elections

[Baltenstein]

Greece leaving the Eurozone is not on Syriza's agenda.

[Kenora County]

Greece leaving the Eurozone is not on Syriza's agenda.

But depending on the economic policies they implement Greece might be expelled from the euro

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

The simple fact is that the Greeks simply do not want to live within their means. They want to continue having everything for free. This is the consequence of decades of socialism. The Germans and the rest of Europe have to come to terms with this fact.

[Teemant]

The simple fact is that the Greeks simply do not want to live within their means. They want to continue having everything for free. This is the consequence of decades of socialism. The Germans and the rest of Europe have to come to terms with this fact.

True. Syriza wants to end austerity (not spending more than they have) and start loaning again. Ridiculous.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

The simple fact is that the Greeks simply do not want to live within their means. They want to continue having everything for free. This is the consequence of decades of socialism. The Germans and the rest of Europe have to come to terms with this fact.

True. Syriza wants to end austerity (not spending more than they have) and start loaning again. Ridiculous.

If they were actually just loaning it, I wouldnt care less. But they basically want other nations to pay for their welfare system.

[Baltenstein]

Guardian did another piece on the four most important parties and their positions in Greece right now:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... s-policies

[Teemant]

True. Syriza wants to end austerity (not spending more than they have) and start loaning again. Ridiculous.

If they were actually just loaning it, I wouldnt care less. But they basically want other nations to pay for their welfare system.

And give them free loans (what default actually is). I hope that no one will lend them money if they want to end austerity.

[CTALNH]

The simple fact is that the Greeks simply do not want to live within their means. They want to continue having everything for free. This is the consequence of decades of socialism. The Germans and the rest of Europe have to come to terms with this fact.

True. Syriza wants to end austerity (not spending more than they have) and start loaning again. Ridiculous.

Hem let me remind you that neo liberalism implemented by the EU IS NOT FUCKING SOCIALISM!

[Liberty and Linguistics]

If they were actually just loaning it, I wouldnt care less. But they basically want other nations to pay for their welfare system.

And give them free loans (what default actually is). I hope that no one will lend them money if they want to end austerity.

How has austerity been working for Europe? Frankly, it's been working horribly, especially in Greece. Austerity doesn't make money for national governments, at least not in nations with heavy doses of austerity. It implies that wages won't fall and that spending won't fall when taxes are raised while public spending is cut. It's ridiculous. Austerity can only work if taxes are cut alongside spending. It's happened in the UK, the Baltics, and even some of the Nordic States, and it's worked. But, I wouldn't call that austerity.

[Teemant]

And give them free loans (what default actually is). I hope that no one will lend them money if they want to end austerity.

How has austerity been working for Europe? Frankly, it's been working horribly, especially in Greece. Austerity doesn't make money for national governments, at least not in nations with heavy doses of austerity. It implies that wages won't fall and that spending won't fall when taxes are raised while public spending is cut. It's ridiculous. Austerity can only work if taxes are cut alongside spending. It's happened in the UK, the Baltics, and even some of the Nordic States, and it's worked. But, I wouldn't call that austerity.

The problem is that some countries who say that austerity doesn't work really haven't implemented austerity or don't cut where cuts need to be made. France has said that austerity doesn't work but they haven't even got their budget deficit below 3% (which is no where near 0%).

[Liberty and Linguistics]

How has austerity been working for Europe? Frankly, it's been working horribly, especially in Greece. Austerity doesn't make money for national governments, at least not in nations with heavy doses of austerity. It implies that wages won't fall and that spending won't fall when taxes are raised while public spending is cut. It's ridiculous. Austerity can only work if taxes are cut alongside spending. It's happened in the UK, the Baltics, and even some of the Nordic States, and it's worked. But, I wouldn't call that austerity.

The problem is that some countries who say that austerity doesn't work really haven't implemented austerity or don't cut where cuts need to be made. France has said that austerity doesn't work but they haven't even got their deficit below 3% (which is no where near 0%).

That doesn't even address my point, since Greece's deficit is 12.70%. Plus, this discussion is about the failure of austerity, not the failure of Hollande.

[Teemant]

The problem is that some countries who say that austerity doesn't work really haven't implemented austerity or don't cut where cuts need to be made. France has said that austerity doesn't work but they haven't even got their deficit below 3% (which is no where near 0%).

That doesn't even address my point, since Greece's deficit is 12.70%. Plus, this discussion is about the failure of austerity, not the failure of Hollande.

You can't say that austerity is a failure if deficit is 12.70%. First start austerity.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

That doesn't even address my point, since Greece's deficit is 12.70%. Plus, this discussion is about the failure of austerity, not the failure of Hollande.

You can't say that austerity is a failure if deficit is 12.70%. First start austerity.

But, they did start austerity. You keep dancing around my question. The argument "they couldn't have tried austerity, they have a deficit" is such bulllshit. Of course they have a massive fucking deficit, because austerity rakes in less money and causes negative economic growth.

[Teemant]

You can't say that austerity is a failure if deficit is 12.70%. First start austerity.

But, they did start austerity. You keep dancing around my question. The argument "they couldn't have tried austerity, they have a deficit" is such bulllshit. Of course they have a massive fucking deficit, because austerity rakes in less money and causes negative economic growth.

What? Austerity means cutting spending.

Greece goverment spending of GDP is like 52% so you can't say like they have made massive cuts. They must cut spending. Since 2009 Greece has managed to cut goverment spending from 12.7 billion dollars to 11 billion dollars. Where is the austerity here?

There has been no austerity in Greece. Their ease of doing business index is still very bad. How are you going to attract investments if it is possible to do business in this country because of the government?

[Chestaan]

That doesn't even address my point, since Greece's deficit is 12.70%. Plus, this discussion is about the failure of austerity, not the failure of Hollande.

You can't say that austerity is a failure if deficit is 12.70%. First start austerity.

Do you actually know what austerity is? It's raising taxes and lowering spending. You can't say the Greeks haven't done that.

[Atlanticatia]

But, they did start austerity. You keep dancing around my question. The argument "they couldn't have tried austerity, they have a deficit" is such bulllshit. Of course they have a massive fucking deficit, because austerity rakes in less money and causes negative economic growth.

What? Austerity means cutting spending.

Greece goverment spending of GDP is like 52% so you can't say like they have made massive cuts. They must cut spending. Since 2009 Greece has managed to cut goverment spending from 12.7 billion dollars to 11 billion dollars. Where is the austerity here?

There has been no austerity in Greece. Their ease of doing business index is still very bad. How are you going to attract investments if it is possible to do business in this country because of the government?

Greece has actually made huge cuts. Austerity and the recession made GDP shrink, therefore spending as a % of GDP rose. But real spending shrank by huge amounts --- however, so did overall GDP.

Real inflation-adjusted spending has shrunk by 30%.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

But, they did start austerity. You keep dancing around my question. The argument "they couldn't have tried austerity, they have a deficit" is such bulllshit. Of course they have a massive fucking deficit, because austerity rakes in less money and causes negative economic growth.

What? Austerity means cutting spending.

Greece goverment spending of GDP is like 52% so you can't say like they have made massive cuts. They must cut spending. Since 2009 Greece has managed to cut goverment spending from 12.7 billion dollars to 11 billion dollars. Where is the austerity here?

There has been no austerity in Greece. They haven't even improved their ease of doing business index much. How are you going to attract investments if it is possible to do business in this country because of the government?

Jesus Christ, austerity isn't just cutting spending. There are many factors that you're blatantly denying. And 1.7 billion dollars is a shitload of money.

And, economic freedom has nothing to do with austerity. As a neoliberal, I want Greece to improve their ease of doing business, but it's irrelevant to the topic.

[Teemant]

What? Austerity means cutting spending.

Greece goverment spending of GDP is like 52% so you can't say like they have made massive cuts. They must cut spending. Since 2009 Greece has managed to cut goverment spending from 12.7 billion dollars to 11 billion dollars. Where is the austerity here?

There has been no austerity in Greece. Their ease of doing business index is still very bad. How are you going to attract investments if it is possible to do business in this country because of the government?

Greece has actually made huge cuts. Austerity and the recession made GDP shrink, therefore spending as a % of GDP rose. But real spending shrank by huge amounts --- however, so did overall GDP.

Real inflation-adjusted spending has shrunk by 30%.

Maybe source of this graph because this seems to be like some kind of a prediction from an old article.

I found the article. This is what Greece had to do!!!!!!! But Greece has not done it.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/the-greek-vise/?_r=0

[Teemant]

What? Austerity means cutting spending.

Greece goverment spending of GDP is like 52% so you can't say like they have made massive cuts. They must cut spending. Since 2009 Greece has managed to cut goverment spending from 12.7 billion dollars to 11 billion dollars. Where is the austerity here?

There has been no austerity in Greece. They haven't even improved their ease of doing business index much. How are you going to attract investments if it is possible to do business in this country because of the government?

Jesus Christ, austerity isn't just cutting spending. There are many factors that you're blatantly denying. And 1.7 billion dollars is a shitload of money.

And, economic freedom has nothing to do with austerity. As a neoliberal, I want Greece to improve their ease of doing business, but it's irrelevant to the topic.

Main thing is cutting spending and 1.7 billion is not enough.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

(Image)

Greece has actually made huge cuts. Austerity and the recession made GDP shrink, therefore spending as a % of GDP rose. But real spending shrank by huge amounts --- however, so did overall GDP.

Real inflation-adjusted spending has shrunk by 30%.

Maybe source of this graph because this seems to be like some kind of a prediction from an old article.

I found the article. This is what Greece had to do!!!!!!! But Greece has not done it.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/the-greek-vise/?_r=0

You literally just proved us right with that source. Krugman explicitly stated that austerity is not an option, and that Greece literally has no good options. Unfortunately for Greece, there are only bad and terrible options. I'm an optimist, but when it comes to Greece, I'm incredibly pessimistic. In fact, I'm staunchly Pro-EU, which is exactly why Greece needs to leave. From an economic standpoint, they shouldn't have been allowed to enter.

Y'know what, Greece should vote for SYRIZA to ensure a Grexit.

[Chestaan]

Greece has actually made huge cuts. Austerity and the recession made GDP shrink, therefore spending as a % of GDP rose. But real spending shrank by huge amounts --- however, so did overall GDP.

Real inflation-adjusted spending has shrunk by 30%.

Maybe source of this graph because this seems to be like some kind of a prediction from an old article.

I found the article. This is what Greece had to do!!!!!!! But Greece has not done it.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/the-greek-vise/?_r=0

Deficit to GDP Ratio = Deficit/GDP. Austerity cuts the deficit in absolute terms but also causes GDP to contract, see the problem?

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Maybe source of this graph because this seems to be like some kind of a prediction from an old article.

I found the article. This is what Greece had to do!!!!!!! But Greece has not done it.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/the-greek-vise/?_r=0

Deficit to GDP Ratio = Deficit/GDP. Austerity cuts the deficit in absolute terms but also causes GDP to contract, see the problem?

Which in turn, can increase the debt and deficit.

[Teemant]

Maybe source of this graph because this seems to be like some kind of a prediction from an old article.

I found the article. This is what Greece had to do!!!!!!! But Greece has not done it.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/the-greek-vise/?_r=0

Deficit to GDP Ratio = Deficit/GDP. Austerity cuts the deficit in absolute terms but also causes GDP to contract, see the problem?

I one more time say that the graph you posted here isn't reality.

Austerity is painful. You can't have austerity that won't hurt somebody.

[Teemant]

Deficit to GDP Ratio = Deficit/GDP. Austerity cuts the deficit in absolute terms but also causes GDP to contract, see the problem?

Which in turn, can increase the debt and deficit.

Austerity won't increase debt because it means running balanced or surplus budget.

[Chestaan]

Deficit to GDP Ratio = Deficit/GDP. Austerity cuts the deficit in absolute terms but also causes GDP to contract, see the problem?

I one more time say that the graph you posted here isn't reality.

Austerity is painful. You can't have austerity that won't hurt somebody.

I didn't post the graph.

Which in turn, can increase the debt and deficit.

Austerity won't increase debt because it means running balanced or surplus budget.

No it doesn't, it means cutting spending and increasing taxes. Which in turn causes growth to fall, which in turn causes revenue to fall.