New Greek elections

[Constantinopolis]

Yeah, remember how that story ended for the Nazis? Do you want Greece divided into Turkish and EU occupation zones?

The end of germany was brought about by barbaric, downright evil military expansion and murder- it was all their own fault. If we remain peaceful and rebuild greece from the inside with ideas from their pre-war government- much good can come.

But that's just the thing - their pre-war government relied on massive spending on building up the German military to get out of the economic depression. So what's your plan, to build up the Greek military and then just sit there doing nothing with it?

The Nazis rebuilt Germany by preparing for war. They never had any peacetime policy. "Peacetime", for them, was just the downtime before the next war. It makes no sense to try to copy them without starting a war.

More bigotic than nationalistic. I agree with you, though it's a bit odd that such a person got to live in the NYC.

You can literally find anything in NYC if you look hard enough. Including every possible kind of political opinion.

[Baltenstein]

we simply take back what is rightfully ours by birth

Were you not taught about the Asia Minor Catastrophe in your school? we have a skipper here.

I doubt that topic is discussed much in American schools.

[Gezi Park]

Were you not taught about the Asia Minor Catastrophe in your school? we have a skipper here.

I doubt that topic is discussed much in American schools.

I'm not sure if he was really born there.

[Untaroicht]

You can literally find anything in NYC if you look hard enough. Including every possible kind of political opinion.

I'm not in NYC though- I live about 30 minutes away from DC.

[Martean]

The Greek elections are always on the first page of our newspapers, in most online versions the most visited news is the one that talks about the Greek elections... They have even made TV debates with important politicians from the 4 biggest parties to talk about Greece, as if they were presenting to the elections.

This elections are important not only for Greece, but also for Spain. Please, vote Tsipras.

[Baltenstein]

The Greek elections are always on the first page of our newspapers, in most online versions the most visited news is the one that talks about the Greek elections... They have even made TV debates with important politicians from the 4 biggest parties to talk about Greece, as if they were presenting to the elections.

This elections are important not only for Greece, but also for Spain. Please, vote Tsipras.

He has directly adressed you, companieros.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/01/15/opi ... 43767.html

[Gezi Park]

The Greek elections are always on the first page of our newspapers, in most online versions the most visited news is the one that talks about the Greek elections... They have even made TV debates with important politicians from the 4 biggest parties to talk about Greece, as if they were presenting to the elections.

This elections are important not only for Greece, but also for Spain. Please, vote Tsipras.

Definitely important for the future of the EU.

[Conserative Morality]

Holy hell politics are polarized. Syriza and the GOLDEN DAWN are the top two in the poll?

[Martean]

The Greek elections are always on the first page of our newspapers, in most online versions the most visited news is the one that talks about the Greek elections... They have even made TV debates with important politicians from the 4 biggest parties to talk about Greece, as if they were presenting to the elections.

This elections are important not only for Greece, but also for Spain. Please, vote Tsipras.

He has directly adressed you, companieros.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/01/15/opi ... 43767.html

Yeah, I know.

And Podemos really depends on what Tsipras does (and doesn't do) when he wins (supossing he wins). Almost everybody here is drawing parallels between Greece and Spain, and everybody thinks that Podemos will basically do whatever Tsipras does in Greece, so if he manages to rule Greece more or less decently until November 2015 (Spanish General Election) I'm sure Podemos will obtain 30+% of the votes, which will assure at least a simple majority, and if Podemos has a simple majority I don't think the Socialists will dare to ally with the Conservatives.

So, let's go Tsipras!

[Martean]

Holy hell politics are polarized. Syriza and the GOLDEN DAWN are the top two in the poll?

Neonazi puppets, don't really care

[Constantinopolis]

Oh, by the way, with only a few days left before the election, this is probably a good time for me to repost my pessimistic prediction:

Syriza will win and Tsipras will become prime minister. However, it will soon become apparent that Greece cannot have it both ways - it's not possible to stay in the eurozone and yet at the same time disobey Merkel, the ECB and the IMF. If you want to end austerity, you have to go to war (metaphorically, in case it needs to be specified) against the EU establishment, and against most of the leading Greek capitalists. Social democracy is not an option any more. You have to either go with serious socialist measures, or go home.

And Tsipras will choose to go home. Faced with a choice between a truly radical-left economic programme or surrender, he will surrender, and in six months to a year the Syriza government will be only slightly different than the current ND government. Tsipras is going to be the Greek Hollande.

And all this will discredit the left and give a huge boost to the far-right...

Yeah, doom and gloom, I know. I hope and pray that I'm wrong. I desperately want to be wrong. But, sadly, I think I'm going to be right.

[Martean]

Oh, by the way, with only a few days left before the election, this is probably a good time for me to repost my pessimistic prediction:

Syriza will win and Tsipras will become prime minister. However, it will soon become apparent that Greece cannot have it both ways - it's not possible to stay in the eurozone and yet at the same time disobey Merkel, the ECB and the IMF. If you want to end austerity, you have to go to war (metaphorically, in case it needs to be specified) against the EU establishment, and against most of the leading Greek capitalists. Social democracy is not an option any more. You have to either go with serious socialist measures, or go home.

And Tsipras will choose to go home. Faced with a choice between a truly radical-left economic programme or surrender, he will surrender, and in six months to a year the Syriza government will be only slightly different than the current ND government. Tsipras is going to be the Greek Hollande.

And all this will discredit the left and give a huge boost to the far-right...

Yeah, doom and gloom, I know. I hope and pray that I'm wrong. I desperately want to be wrong. But, sadly, I think I'm going to be right.

I think a social democratic model as the one Europe had until WWII is still possible within the EU, Germany it's not stupid and will rather let Greeks to have a social democratic state, and make some concessions, rather than leting Greece out of the Euro with the Domino Effect that could make along the rest of Europe, especially Ireland, Portugal, Italy and Spain. And risking the model that has made Germany so rich and the rest of Europe so poor.

[Chestaan]

Oh, by the way, with only a few days left before the election, this is probably a good time for me to repost my pessimistic prediction:

Syriza will win and Tsipras will become prime minister. However, it will soon become apparent that Greece cannot have it both ways - it's not possible to stay in the eurozone and yet at the same time disobey Merkel, the ECB and the IMF. If you want to end austerity, you have to go to war (metaphorically, in case it needs to be specified) against the EU establishment, and against most of the leading Greek capitalists. Social democracy is not an option any more. You have to either go with serious socialist measures, or go home.

And Tsipras will choose to go home. Faced with a choice between a truly radical-left economic programme or surrender, he will surrender, and in six months to a year the Syriza government will be only slightly different than the current ND government. Tsipras is going to be the Greek Hollande.

And all this will discredit the left and give a huge boost to the far-right...

Yeah, doom and gloom, I know. I hope and pray that I'm wrong. I desperately want to be wrong. But, sadly, I think I'm going to be right.

I fear that you are almost certainly correct. Here's an interview with a CWI member in Greece. His party is a member of SYRIZA but he's not exactly very optimistic about the prospects of them making a huge change.

[Baltenstein]

Inside Syriza, there is a very influential Leftist Platform headed by Panagiotis Lafazanis who is calling for a serious debate on Euro membership. If things indeed turn out how Const predicts them and Tsipras, one prime minister, is forced to drop his agenda because of EU pressure, you can expect them increasing their influence and eventually topple him.

[Camelza]

Inside Syriza, there is a very influential Leftist Platform headed by Panagiotis Lafazanis who is calling for a serious debate on Euro membership. If things indeed turn out how Const predicts them and Tsipras, one prime minister, is forced to drop his agenda because of EU pressure, you can expect them increasing their influence and eventually topple him.

Syriza under Lafazanis will return into being an irrelevant 5%er protest party. I for once hope that Tsipras won't be another Hollande, or another Andreas, but something completely diferent, even though not ideal.
@Spaniards; don't just follow the current, vote what you feel like is the best for your country regardless of what happens in Greece ..don't forget that Spain is a much more powerful and influential country that could bargain more easily with Merkel's establishment.

[Gezi Park]

Inside Syriza, there is a very influential Leftist Platform headed by Panagiotis Lafazanis who is calling for a serious debate on Euro membership. If things indeed turn out how Const predicts them and Tsipras, one prime minister, is forced to drop his agenda because of EU pressure, you can expect them increasing their influence and eventually topple him.

Syriza under Lafazanis will return into being an irrelevant 5%er protest party. I for once hope that Tsipras won't be another Hollande, or another Andreas, but something completely diferent, even though not ideal.

I hope he will not turn out to be a fake socialist like Hollande and genuinely execute what his party is supposed to stand for. He definitely seems that type of a leader with his young energy and such.

[Baltenstein]

Nea Dimokratia has released an election spot that depicts a "possible" Syriza victory in the elections. It consists of faux headlines how the country will crash, everybody will lose all his money, street fighting...basically 1 minute of "we're all gonna die" fear-mongering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGMrc2Xz02s

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Nea Dimokratia has released an election spot that depicts a "possible" Syriza victory in the elections. It consists of faux headlines how the country will crash, everybody will lose all his money, street fighting...basically 1 minute of "we're all gonna die" fear-mongering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGMrc2Xz02s

Oh, Jesus. While I'm staunchly opposed to SYRIZA, this is pathetic. The New Democracy Party is almost as ridiculous as SYRIZA, and they seem to imply that the country is fine under them. Jesus, I don't know who I'd vote for if I was Greek. All of the parties just seem horrible. Perhaps Greeks could just write in The Spirit of Economic Prosperity on their ballots?

[Camelza]

Syriza under Lafazanis will return into being an irrelevant 5%er protest party. I for once hope that Tsipras won't be another Hollande, or another Andreas, but something completely diferent, even though not ideal.

I hope he will not turn out to be a fake socialist like Hollande and genuinely execute what his party is supposed to stand for. He definitely seems that type of a leader with his young energy and such.

He can't be another Hollande because he isn't a 60-something "gauche caviar" economist. Truth be told however, many are uncertain if he will be up to the task, mainly judging from his young age and supposed inexpierience in politics.

[Camelza]

Nea Dimokratia has released an election spot that depicts a "possible" Syriza victory in the elections. It consists of faux headlines how the country will crash, everybody will lose all his money, street fighting...basically 1 minute of "we're all gonna die" fear-mongering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGMrc2Xz02s

Oh, Jesus. While I'm staunchly opposed to SYRIZA, this is pathetic. The New Democracy Party is almost as ridiculous as SYRIZA, and they seem to imply that the country is fine under them. Jesus, I don't know who I'd vote for if I was Greek. All of the parties just seem horrible. Perhaps Greeks could just write in The Spirit of Economic Prosperity on their ballots?

Syriza is ridiculous but not for the reasons you have in mind ..there is a tremendous amount of misinformation abroad and in the interior about their supposedly "socialist" programme, which is nothing but a moderate keynesian, social democratic response to the economic crisis, very similar (if not identical) to Roosevelt's New Deal.

[Valaran]

Oh, Jesus. While I'm staunchly opposed to SYRIZA, this is pathetic. The New Democracy Party is almost as ridiculous as SYRIZA, and they seem to imply that the country is fine under them. Jesus, I don't know who I'd vote for if I was Greek. All of the parties just seem horrible. Perhaps Greeks could just write in The Spirit of Economic Prosperity on their ballots?

Syriza is ridiculous but not for the reasons you have in mind ..there is a tremendous amount of misinformation abroad and in the interior about their supposedly "socialist" programme, which is nothing but a moderate keynesian, social democratic response to the economic crisis, very similar (if not identical) to Roosevelt's New Deal.

In that case, would you happen to know where I might find more 'unbiased' information about Syriza and its economic policies? Just out of interest, and as you said, much of what has been reported appears to be in contrast with an (apparent) moderation in its policies.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Oh, Jesus. While I'm staunchly opposed to SYRIZA, this is pathetic. The New Democracy Party is almost as ridiculous as SYRIZA, and they seem to imply that the country is fine under them. Jesus, I don't know who I'd vote for if I was Greek. All of the parties just seem horrible. Perhaps Greeks could just write in The Spirit of Economic Prosperity on their ballots?

Syriza is ridiculous but not for the reasons you have in mind ..there is a tremendous amount of misinformation abroad and in the interior about their supposedly "socialist" programme, which is nothing but a moderate keynesian, social democratic response to the economic crisis, very similar (if not identical) to Roosevelt's New Deal.

While their program is certainly not "radically socialist", I'd argue that it's still quite left wing. Particularly, their 40 point program. Many of those proposals make me wary about the future of Greece. Although, I have reason to suspect that if SYRIZA is elected, they won't be able to accomplish some of their more "radical goals."
http://links.org.au/node/2888

[Camelza]

Syriza is ridiculous but not for the reasons you have in mind ..there is a tremendous amount of misinformation abroad and in the interior about their supposedly "socialist" programme, which is nothing but a moderate keynesian, social democratic response to the economic crisis, very similar (if not identical) to Roosevelt's New Deal.

In that case, where I might find more 'unbiased' information about Syriza and its economic policies? Just out of interest, and as you said, much of what has been reported appears to be in contrast with an (apparent) moderation in its policies.

Their official programme would be a good start, also examining and listening to its key-members, like Dimitris Papadimoulis, Zoe Konstantopoulou and more importantly Efklidis Tsakalotos.

[Valaran]

Syriza is ridiculous but not for the reasons you have in mind ..there is a tremendous amount of misinformation abroad and in the interior about their supposedly "socialist" programme, which is nothing but a moderate keynesian, social democratic response to the economic crisis, very similar (if not identical) to Roosevelt's New Deal.

While their program is certainly not "radically socialist", I'd argue that it's still quite left wing. Particularly, their 40 point program. Many of those proposals make me wary about the future of Greece. Although, I have reason to suspect that if SYRIZA is elected, they won't be able to accomplish some of their more "radical goals."
http://links.org.au/node/2888

Having a brief looks, I would concur. It feels more than just simply Keyensian (this coming from someone who is quite supportive of Keynes), and I would argue that quite a lot of its points are driven by ideology, rather than cold economic logic that Keynes would likely espouse. Its not terrible by any means and you say, it won't nearly all happen. I particularly like the idea of coming to an accord with Turkey in theory, though practice may turn out to be a different matter. Having said all that, a lot of it is also very admirable.

I have definite problems with this one though (not an economics point but still): 40. Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO.

[Valaran]

In that case, where I might find more 'unbiased' information about Syriza and its economic policies? Just out of interest, and as you said, much of what has been reported appears to be in contrast with an (apparent) moderation in its policies.

Their official programme would be a good start, also examining and listening to its key-members, like Dimitris Papadimoulis, Zoe Konstantopoulou and more importantly Efklidis Tsakalotos.

Thanks

You wouldn't happen to know any good independent analysis as well? (The BBC is somewhat lacking, as is the economist and several other usual channels)