New Greek elections

[Camelza]

New Democracy seems like the only reasonable alternative in that country of weird parties.

I won't blame SYRIZA or Golden Dawn for their extremism though. Greece will never manage to pay back that debt.

Would personally choose Golden Dawn out of the two though.

So wrong, in so many fucking levels.

[Southern Hampshire]

Nope.

[Camelza]

Nope.

-New Democracy's economic plans have failed, ask any economist on the matter, hell, even the council of industrialists wants them gone.
-Syriza is a moderate party with a Keynesian economic platform that wishes to continue paying the debt and staying in the Eurozone, hardly extremist.
-Golden Dawn is a neo-nazi anti-semitic party that doesn't go well with your support for Israel.

[Teemant]

Nope.

-New Democracy's economic plans have failed, ask any economist on the matter, hell, even the council of industrialists wants them gone.
-Syriza is a moderate party with a Keynesian economic platform that wishes to continue paying the debt and staying in the Eurozone, hardly extremist.
-Golden Dawn is a neo-nazi anti-semitic party that doesn't go well with your support for Israel.

Syriza isn't moderate or meaning of moderate has changed.

[Camelza]

-New Democracy's economic plans have failed, ask any economist on the matter, hell, even the council of industrialists wants them gone.
-Syriza is a moderate party with a Keynesian economic platform that wishes to continue paying the debt and staying in the Eurozone, hardly extremist.
-Golden Dawn is a neo-nazi anti-semitic party that doesn't go well with your support for Israel.

Syriza isn't moderate or meaning of moderate has changed.

Have you read Syriza's political platform? Don't judge a book by its revolutionary left-wing cover.

[Teemant]

Syriza isn't moderate or meaning of moderate has changed.

Have you read Syriza's political platform? Don't judge a book by its revolutionary left-wing cover.

I mean didn't they have free electricity in their program? It's like communism. Plus all kinds of new subsidies. I mean they are going to increase spending a lot.

[Southern Hampshire]

Nope.

-New Democracy's economic plans have failed, ask any economist on the matter, hell, even the council of industrialists wants them gone.
-Syriza is a moderate party with a Keynesian economic platform that wishes to continue paying the debt and staying in the Eurozone, hardly extremist.
-Golden Dawn is a neo-nazi anti-semitic party that doesn't go well with your support for Israel.

Look you are a stalinist and I am a friedman-fan of course we're going to disagree.

I prefer a heavily conservative and capitalist party from a far left communist hole.

New Democracy's policies have failed because of unruliness in the country. Would Greece have had less debt they wouldn't fail.

Economically, no party can succeed. (Unless it's Golden Dawn who plans to go the Iceland Way and cancel all their debt)

Socially, only New Democracy makes sense.

[Teemant]

People here don't have to worry though. SYRIZA has lost great amount of popularity in last few weeks.

[Camelza]

Have you read Syriza's political platform? Don't judge a book by its revolutionary left-wing cover.

I mean didn't they have free electricity in their program? It's like communism. Plus all kinds of new subsidies. I mean they are going to increase spending a lot.

First of all, statism has nothing to do with communism.
Secondly, Syriza is less statist than New Democracy, believe it, or not.
There will be no "Free Electricity" just cheaper electricity for anyone who is beneath the poverty line.
Spending will not be increased, au contraire, once the new government of Syriza stops funding the Greek banks the state will be able to spend all that money in increasing the buying power of Greeks and start building infastructures, in order to restart the real Greek economy.
This economic plan is why Syriza is supported by the majority of factory/company owners and fought viciously by the big three banks and their media lapdogs(who have a monopoly in banking services in Greece, something that any capitalist would deem unacceptable for a free market economy).

[Camelza]

-New Democracy's economic plans have failed, ask any economist on the matter, hell, even the council of industrialists wants them gone.
-Syriza is a moderate party with a Keynesian economic platform that wishes to continue paying the debt and staying in the Eurozone, hardly extremist.
-Golden Dawn is a neo-nazi anti-semitic party that doesn't go well with your support for Israel.

Look you are a stalinist and I am a friedman-fan of course we're going to disagree.

I'm a keynesian capitalist and socialy liberal.

New Democracy's policies have failed because of unruliness in the country. Would Greece have had less debt they wouldn't fail.

Unruliness? Are you kidding me? Have you been in Greece?

Economically, no party can succeed. (Unless it's Golden Dawn who plans to go the Iceland Way and cancel all their debt)

Keynesianism has been proven to be quite successfull as an economic policy.

Socially, only New Democracy makes sense.

If you call throwing money to a bottomless hole and claiming Saint Mary guides your policies in public, sense, then yes sure.

[Teemant]

I mean didn't they have free electricity in their program? It's like communism. Plus all kinds of new subsidies. I mean they are going to increase spending a lot.

First of all, statism has nothing to do with communism.
Secondly, Syriza is less statist than New Democracy, believe it, or not.
There will be no "Free Electricity" just cheaper electricity for anyone who is beneath the poverty line.
Spending will not be increased, au contraire, once the new government of Syriza stops funding the Greek banks the state will be able to spend all that money in increasing the buying power of Greeks and start building infastructures, in order to restart the real Greek economy.
This economic plan is why Syriza is supported by the majority of factory/company owners and fought viciously by the big three banks and their media lapdogs(who have a monopoly in banking services in Greece, something that any capitalist would deem unacceptable for a free market economy).

Syriza supports free electricity not cheaper electricity. You're saying pretty much exactly the opposite what Syriza intends to do. If you have your own Syriza or there are more Syriza programs than one please send it so I can read it.

[Camelza]

First of all, statism has nothing to do with communism.
Secondly, Syriza is less statist than New Democracy, believe it, or not.
There will be no "Free Electricity" just cheaper electricity for anyone who is beneath the poverty line.
Spending will not be increased, au contraire, once the new government of Syriza stops funding the Greek banks the state will be able to spend all that money in increasing the buying power of Greeks and start building infastructures, in order to restart the real Greek economy.
This economic plan is why Syriza is supported by the majority of factory/company owners and fought viciously by the big three banks and their media lapdogs(who have a monopoly in banking services in Greece, something that any capitalist would deem unacceptable for a free market economy).

Syriza supports free electricity not cheaper electricity. You're saying pretty much exactly the opposite what Syriza intends to do. If you have your own Syriza or there are more Syriza programs than one please send it so I can read it.

Actually what I write in my post is what Syriza claims they want to do with the economy, believe it, or not.
I've read their platform and watched many times their politicians supporting all of the above points.
If you want to stick to your ignorant and misinformed "They're spineless commies, so they must be statist and shit" theme, then I have no problem with it.

[Teemant]

Syriza supports free electricity not cheaper electricity. You're saying pretty much exactly the opposite what Syriza intends to do. If you have your own Syriza or there are more Syriza programs than one please send it so I can read it.

Actually what I write in my post is what Syriza claims they want to do with the economy, believe it, or not.
I've read their platform and watched many times their politicians supporting all of the above points.

Is there a online version of this raport?

[Camelza]

Actually what I write in my post is what Syriza claims they want to do with the economy, believe it, or not.
I've read their platform and watched many times their politicians supporting all of the above points.

Is there a online version of this raport?

What? That they want to increase buying power by increasing welfare and the minimum wage, reducing VAT taxes and also stop funding the banks?
That's their electoral campaign's main arguments.

[Southern Hampshire]

Keynesian economics is the reason why half of the population will be unemployed by the middle of this century and everything will have to be subsidized by the state as the people are too poor because their spending power has been bargained for the benefit of the public sector.

When your employer fires you in favour of automation in 2025, re read this message.

Read Friedman's books on Keynesian economics. He has written a thousand A4 pages about it's failure and why it's bad for future society.

[Teemant]

Is there a online version of this raport?

What? That they want to increase buying power by increasing welfare and the minimum wage, reducing VAT taxes and also stop funding the banks?
That's their electoral campaign's main arguments.

If the Greece is in deficit how is this going to help them? Increasing welfare when there is no money plus these electricity benefits, food and other stuff subsidation. I just can't understand how is this going to help Greece pay it's debt back.

[Camelza]

What? That they want to increase buying power by increasing welfare and the minimum wage, reducing VAT taxes and also stop funding the banks?
That's their electoral campaign's main arguments.

If the Greece is in deficit how is this going to help them? Increasing welfare when there is no money plus these electricity benefits, food and other stuff subsidation. I just can't understand how is this going to help Greece pay it's debt back.

Simply instead of funding the ever-sinking banks, the government will fund the citizens through welfare and tax cuts, who in turn will fund the economy by buying products and services.
Also, no country can and ever will, pay its debt, debts are actually tools. As such Greece has only to renegotiate the extremely absurd interest we currently pay to a livable one, in order to continue paying back the debt normally like every other nation in the world does.
Plus, some minor parts of the debt are illegal and could easily be annuled, in the same way the US has done many times in the past for less important reasons.

[Teemant]

If the Greece is in deficit how is this going to help them? Increasing welfare when there is no money plus these electricity benefits, food and other stuff subsidation. I just can't understand how is this going to help Greece pay it's debt back.

Simply instead of funding the ever-sinking banks, the government will fund the citizens through welfare and tax cuts, who in turn will fund the economy by buying products and services.
Also, no country can and ever will, pay its debt, debts are actually tools. As such Greece has only to renegotiate the extremely absurd interest we currently pay to a livable one, in order to continue paying back the debt normally like every other nation in the world does.
Plus, some minor parts of the debt are illegal and could easily be annuled, in the same way the US has done many times in the past for less important reasons.

What about Syriza job creation program? They think it must be funded completely by EU. Syriza can't cut down unemployment as it seems. I think they won't advance Greece much forward. They should be reasonable with welfare.

[Camelza]

Keynesian economics is the reason why half of the population will be unemployed by the middle of this century and everything will have to be subsidized by the state as the people are too poor because their spending power has been bargained for the benefit of the public sector.

When your employer fires you in favour of automation in 2025, re read this message.

Read Friedman's books on Keynesian economics. He has written a thousand A4 pages about it's failure and why it's bad for future society.

I prefer "A Treatise on Money".
Money must flow and the state can easily act as the liquefier.

Plus, neo-luddism is just fear of the unknown and should be not taken seriously.

[Camelza]

Simply instead of funding the ever-sinking banks, the government will fund the citizens through welfare and tax cuts, who in turn will fund the economy by buying products and services.
Also, no country can and ever will, pay its debt, debts are actually tools. As such Greece has only to renegotiate the extremely absurd interest we currently pay to a livable one, in order to continue paying back the debt normally like every other nation in the world does.
Plus, some minor parts of the debt are illegal and could easily be annuled, in the same way the US has done many times in the past for less important reasons.

What about Syriza job creation program? They think it must be funded completely by EU. Syriza can't cut down unemployment as it seems. I think they won't advance Greece much forward. They should be reasonable with welfare.

They don't want to advance Greece "much" forward, they simply want to stop the continuing devastation of the real Greek economy and stabilise the market.
Also, the welfare system Greece has at the moment is miniscule and the worker rights non-existent in comparison to any of the western nations, to ridiculous levels. Setting up a minimum wage when technicaly none exists isn't a very radical policy ever since the early 21th century.

[Teemant]

What about Syriza job creation program? They think it must be funded completely by EU. Syriza can't cut down unemployment as it seems. I think they won't advance Greece much forward. They should be reasonable with welfare.

They don't want to advance Greece "much" forward, they simply want to stop the continuing devastation of the real Greek economy and stabilise the market.
Also, the welfare system Greece has at the moment is miniscule and the worker rights non-existent in comparison to any of the western nations, to ridiculous levels. Setting up a minimum wage when technicaly none exists isn't a very radical policy ever since the early 21th century.

Welfare state is miniscule because they have no money. If Greece chooses Syriza it's their own choice and choice they have right to make. I don't belive in Syriza and don't think it will succeed helping Greece out of this misery. I might be wrong too and only time will tell.

[Baltenstein]

[quote="Camelza";p="23065508"

ANEL will most likely enter the parliament and will most certainly ally with Syriza since they have some short of informal pact(ANEL will get the defense and education ministries).[/QUOTE]

That Syriza does have an informal pact with a xenophobic and conspiracy theorist rightwing party is kinda a letdown, though. I seriously hope ANEL doesn't make it into parliament so that the question doesn't pose itself (ANEL getting education seriously, WTF)

[Teemant]

That Syriza does have an informal pact with a xenophobic and conspiracy theorist rightwing party is kinda a letdown, though. I seriously hope ANEL doesn't make it into parliament so that the question doesn't pose itself (ANEL getting education seriously, WTF)

It simply all about getting to the power. This alliance makes really no sense.

[Camelza]

That Syriza does have an informal pact with a xenophobic and conspiracy theorist rightwing party is kinda a letdown, though. I seriously hope ANEL doesn't make it into parliament so that the question doesn't pose itself (ANEL getting education seriously, WTF)

It is a letdown, but difficult times are in need of desparate solutions and Syriza isn't in exactly the most ideal position to pick allies.
However, that "pact" was about the 2012 elections when ANEL had much more political power, if ANEL scores badly in these elections(which they will) they will only get the defense ministry at best.
Syriza has a rather radical social programme though and I doubt ANEL will remain in government when Syriza puts its LGBT marriage and adoption agenda up for vote in parliament.
Or the secularisation process in government and the complete separation of church and state, for that matter.

[Baltenstein]

That Syriza does have an informal pact with a xenophobic and conspiracy theorist rightwing party is kinda a letdown, though. I seriously hope ANEL doesn't make it into parliament so that the question doesn't pose itself (ANEL getting education seriously, WTF)

It is a letdown, but difficult times are in need of desparate solutions and Syriza isn't in exactly the most ideal position to pick allies.
However, that "pact" was about the 2012 elections when ANEL had much more political power, if ANEL scores badly in these elections(which they will) they will only get the defense ministry at best.
Syriza has a rather radical social programme though and I doubt ANEL will remain in government when Syriza puts its LGBT marriage and adoption agenda up for vote in parliament.
Or the secularisation process in government and the complete separation of church and state, for that matter.

I wonder how much of that secularization business will be actually implemented after Tsipras got all buddy-cozy with the Greek Orthodox Church.